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The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround

Skyrim Nexus offers a new way to make The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Large Address Aware, allowing systems to make use of an entire 4GB virtual memory address space when playing Bethesda's RPG sequel. This follows the patch that's been widely reported elsewhere since being mentioned here last night that broke the previous LAA awareness hack. Word is: "Skyrim4GB additionally hooks and replaces the Windows GetTickCount() function that may improve stuttering."

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40. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 23, 2011, 18:08 Crustacean Soup
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Nov 23, 2011, 11:09:
Actually what do you know, I stumbled across one while reading a forum:

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/07/23/29099.htm

That one's pretty nice, thanks

That's about trafficking again, and doesn't look like it affects the legality of trafficking in cracks (it states that the plaintiff needs to show unauthorized access is enabled, which they couldn't in that case; that would be trivial to show in the case of a crack). I can't find anything about just using a crack; if anything, I'm sure it falls under the program's EULA (I don't recall those ever standing up in court unless someone actually outright signed a contract...) as well as typical copyright law (since most cracks are just outright copies of the executable).

Law sucks. Glad I'm not a laywer, this stuff would drive me insane.
 
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39. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 23, 2011, 14:21 StingingVelvet
 
Mordecai Walfish wrote on Nov 23, 2011, 11:35:
Sheesh with how much I've tested "features" and "fixes" in Bethesda games you'd think I'd be getting paid for this shit.

I had the distant texture flicker before I started using the 4GB patch, for sure.
 
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38. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 23, 2011, 11:35 Mordecai Walfish
 
Sorry if this is a bit too on-topic, but I tried the LAA patch for Skyrim last night, which I had previously had assumed would function pretty much the same as Oblivion/Fallout did in the past, but thought perhaps it was shortsighted of me to have commented on it a couple times but not have actually applied it to Skyrim.

Within an hour of playing I noticed 2 graphical anomalies I hadn't seen in the game before: distant textures flickering in and out, and in one cell the water failed to load, leaving the river with just the rushing-rapids overlay texture on top. I jumped in the water and it looked like I was swimming through air, with a sharp cut-off point where the water resumed normality. (the edge of the cell)

Never before have I noticed either of these issues, and truthfully I don't know what to think, because it could in all reality have been something that may have happened eventually with or without the LAA patch, but the occurrence of both of these within such a short time span of one-another has made me uninstall the patch (for now, at least). I will keep an eye out for these anomalies in the next couple days but there is a chance its just a bug with the core game right now and that it will be fixed in the patch coming this next week. IMO hard to tell for sure, but being that I haven't had these issues before I'm going to go with my gut instinct on this one, while still keeping an eye out for this popping up without the patch.

Sheesh with how much I've tested "features" and "fixes" in Bethesda games you'd think I'd be getting paid for this shit.
 
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37. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 23, 2011, 11:09 StingingVelvet
 
Actually what do you know, I stumbled across one while reading a forum:

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/07/23/29099.htm
 
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36. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 23, 2011, 10:35 StingingVelvet
 
Crustacean Soup wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 21:42:
Do you have a cite? Distributing tools, even for "personal use" is a violation, and I've never heard that using those tools for personal use is any different. The language "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title" is quite clear.

The law out of Congress is quite clear, yes. That doesn't mean the courts back it up when it goes to trial though. It's pretty standard procedure for the courts to refine a law after Congress makes it, and the DMCA is no exception.

I'm not going to spend half my day googling for you though. I read these things in passing and I clearly remember several that went toward consumers. The iPhone jailbreaking decision for example, or the one with the guy who modded people's 360's where the case was dismissed because they had no actual proof he provided pirated software to other people.
 
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35. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 22, 2011, 21:42 Crustacean Soup
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 21:18:
Jerykk wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 17:21:
Beelzebud wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 17:20:
Get a cracked .exe and be done with it, then. It's not piracy if you bought the game.

It's still illegal, though.

Some courts have said bypassing DRM is not illegal unless there is an intent to distribute, actually. Doing it to make a backup is arguably just fine. The DMCA might say otherwise, but the whole point is that the DMCA is being slowly refined in court.

One of those grey areas when new law is being written and argued over.

Do you have a cite? Distributing tools, even for "personal use" is a violation, and I've never heard that using those tools for personal use is any different. The language "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title" is quite clear.

This was a DRM-circumvention, with no copyrighted material infringed upon otherwise. Illegal.

Here the EFF requested an exemption to allow people to break DRM to play broken audio CDs, or to play foreign movies. Denied.

The EFF did get an exemption for ripping DVDs in order to use the work in another material (so long as the use was Fair Use or otherwise permitted). This is now allowed, and a specific exemption exists for it. That doesn't make other "personal use" scenarios legal.



Other nations specifically permit personal use (IIRC the Canadian-equivalent that's not yet passed, while flawed in many other ways, does appear to allow this, or at least to try to).
 
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34. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 22, 2011, 21:28 Crustacean Soup
 
MonkeySpank wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 21:01:
This is a simple VStudio linker command-line parameter linker fix in "/LARGEADDRESSAWARE". I wish Bethesda and other companies started actually compiling the code in 64-bit. They'd benefit from the performance and the addressing limits they are missing out on today. I understand they have legacy code, but this is not an enormous effort. Time to stop kicking the can down the road guys.

It's not free. It takes work to maintain a separate architecture, it adds extra risk, and it adds a considerable amount of extra work to QA.

Most people aren't going to care if the game can address more memory if it's console (and 32-bit)-targeted and so not even using much memory to begin with.

Performance benefit isn't simple. If there's a lot of pointers flying around, they're going to occupy twice as much memory, and might knock things out of the cache. If there's anywhere in the engine (and there may not be without restructuring it) that can be recoded to use x64's extra features, it'll have to be maintained twice (for x86 and x64), which introduces risk and work; that type of code is likely going to be deep optimized stuff too, which makes that even more of a pain. I'm guessing the increased number of registers is going to be the main win, and one that you can get without any extra effort thanks to the compiler, but is it a big enough one on its own?

Does this move to 64-bit make sense from a business perspective at all? It's not like Skyrim is being sold on its technical brilliance anyways.
 
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33. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 22, 2011, 21:18 StingingVelvet
 
Jerykk wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 17:21:
Beelzebud wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 17:20:
Get a cracked .exe and be done with it, then. It's not piracy if you bought the game.

It's still illegal, though.

Some courts have said bypassing DRM is not illegal unless there is an intent to distribute, actually. Doing it to make a backup is arguably just fine. The DMCA might say otherwise, but the whole point is that the DMCA is being slowly refined in court.

One of those grey areas when new law is being written and argued over.
 
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32. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 22, 2011, 21:08 Crustacean Soup
 
WaltC wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 18:44:
Actually, it's only illegal behavior if you engage in it solely in order to deprive the copyright holder of his due--ie, it's illegal if you use the circumvention to distribute unpaid-for bootleg copies, etc. If you paid for your copy and can prove it I hardly see how using a modified exe in its place would be illegal, since the copyright holder would not have been damaged by that activity.

US DMCA: "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title"

There is no exemption for personal use of a work you've paid for. Of course, this is an exceedingly stupid law, but it's still a law
 
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31. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 22, 2011, 21:01 MonkeySpank
 
This is a simple VStudio linker command-line parameter linker fix in "/LARGEADDRESSAWARE". I wish Bethesda and other companies started actually compiling the code in 64-bit. They'd benefit from the performance and the addressing limits they are missing out on today. I understand they have legacy code, but this is not an enormous effort. Time to stop kicking the can down the road guys.  
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30. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 22, 2011, 19:44 Bumpy
 
Kastagir wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 14:18:
Anyone tried making the skyrim folder read-only to block unwanted updates? I often make my ini files read-only once I've made the changes I want so the launcher doesn't overwrite them.

I suspect Steam simply changes the folder and files back to readable.

What we need is a program that monitors files and asks for user authorization for any read-only changes.
 
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29. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 22, 2011, 19:33 Fibrocyte
 
WaltC wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 18:44:
CJ_Parker wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 18:17:
What's illegal in most Western countries is the act of circumventing the copy protection. That means that downloading a cracked EXE may be legal. But installing and using it is illegal. That's how it usually goes, although legislation (or rather jurisdiction) might differ from one country to another.


Actually, it's only illegal behavior if you engage in it solely in order to deprive the copyright holder of his due--ie, it's illegal if you use the circumvention to distribute unpaid-for bootleg copies, etc. If you paid for your copy and can prove it I hardly see how using a modified exe in its place would be illegal, since the copyright holder would not have been damaged by that activity.

OTOH, I tend to avoid "cracked" anything because I can never be sure of *what else* I might be getting besides the "cracked" exe...;)


So when it comes time to prosecute you, you're going to have to show a receipt predating the pirate date for every title in question.
 
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28. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 22, 2011, 18:44 WaltC
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 18:17:
What's illegal in most Western countries is the act of circumventing the copy protection. That means that downloading a cracked EXE may be legal. But installing and using it is illegal. That's how it usually goes, although legislation (or rather jurisdiction) might differ from one country to another.


Actually, it's only illegal behavior if you engage in it solely in order to deprive the copyright holder of his due--ie, it's illegal if you use the circumvention to distribute unpaid-for bootleg copies, etc. If you paid for your copy and can prove it I hardly see how using a modified exe in its place would be illegal, since the copyright holder would not have been damaged by that activity.

OTOH, I tend to avoid "cracked" anything because I can never be sure of *what else* I might be getting besides the "cracked" exe...;)

 
Avatar 16008
 
It is well known that I do not make mistakes--so if you should happen across a mistake in anything I have written, be assured that I did not write it!
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27. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 22, 2011, 18:35 gilly775
 
Jerykk wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 17:21:
Beelzebud wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 17:20:
Get a cracked .exe and be done with it, then. It's not piracy if you bought the game.

It's still illegal, though.

It's not illegal unless you get caught.
 
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26. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 22, 2011, 18:17 Kastagir
 
Creston wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 16:25:
Yeah, I'd rather not patch Skyrim either, since it runs perfectly for me, so a patch could basically only make things worse...
That's a valid course of action until the 1.2.whatever patch gets released next week and I'm assuming that will require a new executable, but if you're not seeing any issues, I guess there's no reason to update. Unfortunately, a change list isn't yet available, so I can't make that decision for myself.

Regarding the large address aware fix, I wonder just how many of the people that feel they require this option are using early mods, particularly those that adjust textures. From looking at the bethsoft forums, a small but vocal group of people are crying foul over this update because it prevented them from using LAA. At the same time, many people, of which I am one, have posted that they haven't tried it and have had no problems. I'd bet that the majority of people having issues without the LAA fix are using mods and the majority of those who are having few issues are not.

I sincerely hope the 1.2 update will be accompanied by at least an announcement on when to expect the creation kit.
 
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25. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 22, 2011, 18:17 CJ_Parker
 
What's illegal in most Western countries is the act of circumventing the copy protection. That means that downloading a cracked EXE may be legal. But installing and using it is illegal. That's how it usually goes, although legislation (or rather jurisdiction) might differ from one country to another.

 
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24. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 22, 2011, 17:53 Mashiki Amiketo
 
Jerykk wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 17:21:
It's still illegal, though.
You must live in an archaic back water. In most western countries it's legal.
 
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
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23. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 22, 2011, 17:21 Jerykk
 
Beelzebud wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 17:20:
Get a cracked .exe and be done with it, then. It's not piracy if you bought the game.

It's still illegal, though.
 
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22. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 22, 2011, 17:20 Beelzebud
 
Get a cracked .exe and be done with it, then. It's not piracy if you bought the game.  
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21. Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim New LAA Workaround Nov 22, 2011, 16:25 Creston
 
Yeah, I'd rather not patch Skyrim either, since it runs perfectly for me, so a patch could basically only make things worse...

I understand the idea from Valve's point of view, but it still sucks that launching the game overrides that setting.

Creston
 
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