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Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works

As noted on the Steam Users' Forums, a new patch is now available for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Bethesda's recently released RPG sequel (thanks Chris and Alex). As stated in the thread, one of the changes the patch implements is that the game can no longer be launched separately from Steam. A locked thread on the Bethesda Softworks Forums and another current thread discuss another consequence of the patch, which is that it means the game can no longer be hacked to run in Large Address Aware mode, which many users found was the solution to crashing issues and texture corruption problems. We contacted both Bethesda and Valve about whether we should expect a return of the ability to use large address awareness through a future update, but have not yet received a response.

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90. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 24, 2011, 07:56 theyarecomingforyou
 
DG wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 13:05:
Game user data (saves and configs) should always be saved into the User folder (which should really be a "Library" IMHO). This way you get to separate saves & configs between users, they're in a typical backup folder and, if Library is used, you can move the folder as you like with no problems. MS pushed this way back when, but uptake is... mixed. Tried finding DXHR saves? They're not even in a folder marked DX or Eidos or anything, it's "28050".
DE:HR uses Steam Cloud, so saved files are backed up online. There should be no need for worry about the actual file, though it is available - admittedly in an obscure folder - if necessary.

Microsoft is the reason for the current mess, as they changed their recommendations for where saved content is stored. In fact their GFWL save system is the worst in the entire industry. Saved games always used to be stored in the game directory or in My Documents - it was an easy to understand system. Now it's a complete clusterfuck.
 
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89. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 23, 2011, 11:25 Creston
 
Yaogun wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 21:31:
Had to put Steam in offline mode to play Skyrim this evening. It got stuck at "preparing to play..." I wonder if the forced patch is causing issues their side?

Yeah, I had the exact same issue. Great patch, Valve.

Creston
 
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88. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 21:31 Yaogun
 
Had to put Steam in offline mode to play Skyrim this evening. It got stuck at "preparing to play..." I wonder if the forced patch is causing issues their side?  
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87. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 20:48 wtf_man
 
Domgrief wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 10:45:
wtf_man wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 10:27:
1 video card, fairly up to date drivers, no security software, no other garbage apps running in the background, nothing but games installed on the OS, and no Internet surfing on the gaming rig.

That's a very expensive console you have there. Nice keyboard though.

Bingo. That's exactly what it is. A pure gaming rig without a gamepad, couch, and a TV. It is the way I prefer to game. I also have a vast software investment... which was quite large before the xBox and PS2. My rig is pushing 5 years old and it's STILL more powerful than an XBox 360 and a PS3.

I have other machines to do non-gaming stuff on, so I can afford to dedicate one for pure gaming.

/shrug
 
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86. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 13:05 DG
 
Dev wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 10:57:
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 08:27:
I HATE, HATE, HATE having to backup all the obscure hidden folders that modern games use - when the FUCK did backing up saves become so much hassle? GFWL especially is a step backwards.
Don't forget flash games if you are into casual flash type games. They usually save save games in a flash object. Those can be hard to track down too. And nowadays (thanks to a recent decision by adobe), when you wipe browser cache, flash automatically clears out all flash objects too.

Game user data (saves and configs) should always be saved into the User folder (which should really be a "Library" IMHO). This way you get to separate saves & configs between users, they're in a typical backup folder and, if Library is used, you can move the folder as you like with no problems. MS pushed this way back when, but uptake is... mixed. Tried finding DXHR saves? They're not even in a folder marked DX or Eidos or anything, it's "28050".

Flash cache is removed due to vulnerabilities and all that shadiness around flash persistent cookies. Have you tried adding the game website's address as a cookie exception? Might need to lookup the actual name, try flash manager
 
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85. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 12:47 Creston
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 00:44:
am I allowed to complain about Valve forcing through updates to games when you have them set to NOT automatically update? 'Cause I had Skyrim set to not update but it patched it anyway when I wasn't at my PC.


Yeah, that pissed me off too...

Creston
 
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84. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 12:34 Boston
 
Mordecai Walfish wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 12:08:
Thanks for the informative post! It would be interesting if there was a program that was able to run alongside skyrim (or other programs) to see how memory is being addressed and if such incongruities exist.

You're welcome! There's this thing:
http://blog.hashpling.org/address-space-monitor/
But I never used it myself and have no idea if it even works with Skyrim.

If it does indeed work, the things to look out for are: large contiguous free addresses (good), or lots of tiny allocations all over the place so that there's no large contiguous free address (bad).
 
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83. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 12:08 Mordecai Walfish
 
Boston wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 11:58:
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 08:27:
I see a lot of people complaining about the game breaking LAA support but a lot of the criticism seems to be aimed at the 2GB restriction of 32bit processes, when in fact Skyrim typically uses about 1GB of RAM - no doubt due to the optimisations made for consoles. If LAA reduces the number of crashes then it isn't because the game is coming across the RAM ceiling.

A common misconception regarding moving to 64bit (or anything beyond 32bit memory addressing schemes) is that programs have more memory to play around with. While that's true, the biggest and most immediate benefit a programmer gains, even with less than 4GB, 2GB or much smaller amount of system memory, is large addressing space that virtually eliminates the problem of virtual address fragmentation that could prevent the program from allocating new memory (and subsequently crashing if not handled properly).

If Skyrim only uses 1GB memory but prone to crash that could be solved with large addresses, then it might be running into fragmentation issue.

Thanks for the informative post! It would be interesting if there was a program that was able to run alongside skyrim (or other programs) to see how memory is being addressed and if such incongruities exist.
 
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82. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 11:58 Boston
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 08:27:
I see a lot of people complaining about the game breaking LAA support but a lot of the criticism seems to be aimed at the 2GB restriction of 32bit processes, when in fact Skyrim typically uses about 1GB of RAM - no doubt due to the optimisations made for consoles. If LAA reduces the number of crashes then it isn't because the game is coming across the RAM ceiling.

A common misconception regarding moving to 64bit (or anything beyond 32bit memory addressing schemes) is that programs have more memory to play around with. While that's true, the biggest and most immediate benefit a programmer gains, even with less than 4GB, 2GB or much smaller amount of system memory, is large addressing space that virtually eliminates the problem of virtual address fragmentation that could prevent the program from allocating new memory (and subsequently crashing if not handled properly).

If Skyrim only uses 1GB memory but prone to crash that could be solved with large addresses, then it might be running into fragmentation issue.
 
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81. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 11:55 Fibrocyte
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 11:48:
StingingVelvet wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 11:39:
Considering the irrational love people have for Valve and Steam itself, I don't really take majority opinion on my comments as some kind of clear sign that I am in the wrong. Sorry.
There's nothing "irrational" about it. Steam offers a service that is miles beyond anything offered by the competition. It's certainly not without its flaws and I'm the first to point them out, whether it be with their policies regarding VAC, the inability to block automatic updates, the requirement to have Steam running for retail games and the (mild) form of DRM they use.

But Steam has dramatically improved gaming from how it used to be, with CD-checks, manual patches, inconsistent screenshot functionality, OS compatibility, manual installers, purchasing, etc. Going forward I'd like to see increased use of Steam Cloud (including a manual version that creates a local backup that supports all games), removal of existing DRM (and blocking of 3rd party DRM), the ability to roll back to previous versions of games, further improved security, etc. But improvements are being made all the time.

I agree and am very fond of Steam. Oh, and all the minor issues that people complain about? They have the power to easily make them go away: just remove that stick from your uptight ass.
 
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80. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 11:48 theyarecomingforyou
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 11:39:
Considering the irrational love people have for Valve and Steam itself, I don't really take majority opinion on my comments as some kind of clear sign that I am in the wrong. Sorry.
There's nothing "irrational" about it. Steam offers a service that is miles beyond anything offered by the competition. It's certainly not without its flaws and I'm the first to point them out, whether it be with their policies regarding VAC, the inability to block automatic updates, the requirement to have Steam running for retail games and the (mild) form of DRM they use.

But Steam has dramatically improved gaming from how it used to be, with CD-checks, manual patches, inconsistent screenshot functionality, OS compatibility, manual installers, purchasing, etc. Going forward I'd like to see increased use of Steam Cloud (including a manual version that creates a local backup that supports all games), removal of existing DRM (and blocking of 3rd party DRM), the ability to roll back to previous versions of games, further improved security, etc. But improvements are being made all the time.
 
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79. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 11:46 Verno
 
There is a huge amount of placebo effect going on here, likely stemming from the fact that people with crashes are scouring the internet and applying each and every suggested "fix" they can and then speculating that a particular one was the 'holy grail' and fixed all of their issues.

Yeah there is some wishful thinking going on, I don't see how exactly the LAA executable would solve some of these issues people are seeing like texture corruption on the 560 Ti.

Considering the irrational love people have for Valve and Steam itself, I don't really take majority opinion on my comments as some kind of clear sign that I am in the wrong. Sorry.

Opinions that disagree with yours are not inherently irrational, sorry. Hopefully you're all done with this completely unnecessary, attention getting derail.
 
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78. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 11:43 Lobster
 
nin wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 10:10:
planar_rift wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 10:03:
I've been trying to explain to a friend of mine why he should wait 3 to 6 months before buying this (or any) major title.
Instead, I'll just point him to this thread.

Carry on...


Bethesda games in particular are notorious for issues, when they first ship.


Notorious or legendary. Daggerfall STILL has more bugs than Skyrim.
 
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77. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 11:42 Mordecai Walfish
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 08:27:
I see a lot of people complaining about the game breaking LAA support but a lot of the criticism seems to be aimed at the 2GB restriction of 32bit processes, when in fact Skyrim typically uses about 1GB of RAM - no doubt due to the optimisations made for consoles. If LAA reduces the number of crashes then it isn't because the game is coming across the RAM ceiling.

This.

There is a huge amount of placebo effect going on here, likely stemming from the fact that people with crashes are scouring the internet and applying each and every suggested "fix" they can and then speculating that a particular one was the 'holy grail' and fixed all of their issues. It's also possible that the steam integration is somehow the cause of many of these crashes and using a modified exe outside of steam is actually helping some in this regard.

50+ hours in. 1 crash so far (in the beginning of the game, helgen keep, and reproducible by anyone). I'll use the LAA patch down the road when I mod the sh!t out of this game, but for now it's core function is not logically helpful to anyone.

This comment was edited on Nov 22, 2011, 11:51.
 
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76. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 11:39 StingingVelvet
 
Verno wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 11:32:
Plenty of others call you out for it around here, you've developed that reputation all by yourself.

Considering the irrational love people have for Valve and Steam itself, I don't really take majority opinion on my comments as some kind of clear sign that I am in the wrong. Sorry.
 
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75. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 11:32 Verno
 
Darks wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 11:26:
Wait until the day comes when Steam gets hacked like Sony did and they are down for a few weeks. Letís see how much you love Steam then when you canít get on and play any of your games.

Its only a matter of time until this happens.

His post was sarcastic, no one loves their cable company.

It seems to be a pretty thin line with you between complaining about Steam and hating it with an irrational passion that could level the Sun, so I just wanted to make sure complaining about this was okay. Glad to have your support, it meant a lot in my life.

Plenty of others call you out for it around here, you've developed that reputation all by yourself. When I see you being hypocritical about it I mention it and when I agree with you I post in support too, fair is fair.

This comment was edited on Nov 22, 2011, 11:37.
 
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74. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 11:31 StingingVelvet
 
Verno wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 07:29:
Do you need me to hold your hand while you go potty too?

It seems to be a pretty thin line with you between complaining about Steam and hating it with an irrational passion that could level the Sun, so I just wanted to make sure complaining about this was okay. Glad to have your support, it meant a lot in my life.
 
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73. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 11:29 nin
 
Darks wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 11:26:
avianflu wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 09:54:
These days, alternative game purchase options, like buying a CD not tied to a network client, are dwindling. So gamers are forced to use Steam.

Skyrim is a perfect example: the retail disk version is just the Steam client installer with the actual game compressed in a Steam format.

So Yes, I love Steam just like I love my cable TV company.

Wait until the day comes when Steam gets hacked like Sony did and they are down for a few weeks. Letís see how much you love Steam then when you canít get on and play any of your games.

Its only a matter of time until this happens.


Fear
Uncertainty
Doubt

A quality FUD post.


 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
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72. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 11:26 Darks
 
avianflu wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 09:54:
These days, alternative game purchase options, like buying a CD not tied to a network client, are dwindling. So gamers are forced to use Steam.

Skyrim is a perfect example: the retail disk version is just the Steam client installer with the actual game compressed in a Steam format.

So Yes, I love Steam just like I love my cable TV company.

Wait until the day comes when Steam gets hacked like Sony did and they are down for a few weeks. Letís see how much you love Steam then when you canít get on and play any of your games.

Its only a matter of time until this happens.
 
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71. Re: Skyrim Patched, LAA Fix No Longer Works Nov 22, 2011, 11:18 Darks
 
Dev wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 10:57:
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Nov 22, 2011, 08:27:
I HATE, HATE, HATE having to backup all the obscure hidden folders that modern games use - when the FUCK did backing up saves become so much hassle? GFWL especially is a step backwards.
Don't forget flash games if you are into casual flash type games. They usually save save games in a flash object. Those can be hard to track down too. And nowadays (thanks to a recent decision by adobe), when you wipe browser cache, flash automatically clears out all flash objects too.

GFWL is the absolute worst when it comes to your save games. I canít tell you how many times Iíve had to restart Batman Gears of War and OF Red River because of the lost saves. I have even backed up those folders and tried recopying those files back after a rebuild and they still will not recognize those files as valid. And Microsoft wonders why everyone hates on GFWL, this is one of the biggest reason.
 
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