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More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes

There's more information about the boss battles from Deus Ex: Human Revolution on The Edge Magazine Website following a Montreal International Game Summit conversation with David Anfossi, producer on Eidos Montreal's action/RPG prequel. As previously noted, development of these encounters was outsourced to Grip Entertainment, but Anfossi indicates that Eidos Montreal designed them, and they take responsibility for how they turned out:

"The problem was not the supplier, it was what we did with them," he said. "The boss fights were too much for the team to do internally in the time we had. We totally underestimated the effort to do that correctly. We had to work with an external supplier with that, but the design and everything is from the team at Eidos Montreal.

"We knew that it would be a weakness for the game, that we had to make a compromise to deliver it [on] two levels. First, the boss fights were forced, which is not the Deus Ex experience. Second, there is no mix [of] solutions to tackle the boss fights, which is not Deus Ex either.

"We knew that before the release of the game, but there had to be some compromise. It [was] our decision."

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44. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 5, 2011, 13:09 Yaogun
 
Creston wrote on Nov 3, 2011, 17:35:

Erm, you made the DECISION to go into that battle while having knowingly compromised your Augs.

Edit : Jerykk already said the same thing. Ah well.

Creston

More DX:HR spoiles ahoy:

Yes, guys, I expected bad things. It was a "I want to see what happens decision" (same with sneaking out while Malik was under attack). The problem was I should have done it on a "run and gun" playthrough, so I might have had some upgraded weapons and whatnot. Or saved right before.

So while I was asking for it, I still don't like that once I hit the boss I had to play it like a lousy FPS. I did hack a turret and take it in there, which felt like a Deus-Exey decision, but overall the fight was much less fun than the vast majority of the game.

My "real" playthrough was Pacifist, stealth, save Malik, keep original augs, and help everybody.

Like somebody downthread said, it's great that we're all discussing the details of this game and not the DRM, consoleitis, etc. Shows how good it was.
 
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43. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 4, 2011, 09:25 Verno
 
Sempai wrote on Nov 2, 2011, 19:25:
Have you even watched a lick of footage? Want me to break it down for you? The physics alone make Doosh Ex look like a 4 year old console port, oh wait, it is.

What an overhyped game, reminds me of the Mass Effect series.

Hype has nothing to do with Deus Ex: Human Revolution's excellent gameplay, its more open design and how much people enjoyed it. You give practically no indication that you actually experienced the game yourself nor a coherent list of what your problems with it were. If you didn't enjoy something then fair enough but when you start throwing around Doosh Ex then you kind of abandon the high ground.
 
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Playing: Dragon Age Inquisition, Far Cry 4, This War of Mine
Watching: The Fall, The Walking Dead, Leon
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42. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 3, 2011, 17:35 Creston
 
Yaogun wrote on Nov 2, 2011, 17:56:
So imagine how PSYCHED I was when I got to Namir and [spoiler] had no augs. That fight made me so angry. Reload, die, reload, die, reload, die, reload. So incredibly unfun, and in such stark contrast to the awesomeness of the rest of the game.

Erm, you made the DECISION to go into that battle while having knowingly compromised your Augs. Or did you really think that, after having seen what an evil corporation Tai Yong (sic?) is, how they deliberately leave faulty augs in the channel, build everything from the cheapest parts, etc, that getting a new chip from Tai Yong was going to be a great idea?

They practically beat you over the head with it. They go out of their way to announce multiple times that it's Tai Yong who is supplying these chips, and this happens AFTER you've been in their HQ and seen what they're planning.

Quite frankly, I was surprised they didn't either just kill you outright if you chose to have your chip replaced, or make you work without Augs for the rest of the game. The fight with Namir is still easy, even if you don't have Augs, and your problem gets fixed right after that.

Edit : Jerykk already said the same thing. Ah well.

Creston
 
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41. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 3, 2011, 17:30 Creston
 
nin wrote on Nov 2, 2011, 16:13:
The only boss which really made me want to pull out all my hair was the Typhoon chick. That fight is hell to pay without the Typhoon aug and resulted in a whole lot of attemps using a lot of weapon combinations before she glitched and got stuck in a wall.

I pity the folks that went back to the LIMB clinic to get "corrected" before the Namir fight.


I did that deliberately just because I was curious to see how I was going to get screwed. Sadly it's just the standard "HAHA WE SWITCHED OFF YOUR AUGMENTATIONS!"

It'd have been much cooler if they'd used me to assassinate my boss or something.

The fight with Namir was still crazy easy.

Creston
 
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40. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 3, 2011, 14:20 Prez
 
Elessar wrote on Nov 3, 2011, 11:18:
They just need to own up on this imo.

I thought that they kind of did with this revelation. They are taking responsibility.
 
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39. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 3, 2011, 11:18 Elessar
 
Jerykk wrote on Nov 2, 2011, 17:54:
Ridiculous. Either don't include them in the game or make time for an integral part of most games, boss fights. To chalk it up as a compromise is a huge cop out.

The realities of game development make compromise inevitable. They likely realized that the boss fights were a bad idea post-alpha and by that point, they didn't have enough time to redo them. Cutting them completely wasn't really an option either, as that would have left significant holes in the story.
I'm not questioning that compromises have to be made, but you compromise some features that may not be missed or as noticeable, not a major part of the game. If they noticed it too late, that's their misstep and poor evaluation. I just think they botched it and calling it a compromise is a cop-out. They just need to own up on this imo.
 
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38. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 3, 2011, 02:27 Jerykk
 
To each his own, Syndicate probably will be shit, I'll say from the trailers it looks a helluva lot better than the yawner Doosh ex was, I will miss the in game adds and the color orange though.

From what I've seen and read, Syndicate looks like a standard corridor shooter with a hacking gimmick thrown in. In terms of scope, depth and freedom, I'm pretty sure it won't hold a candle to DX:HR. That said, if you thought DX:HR was boring, maybe a corridor shooter is more up your alley.
 
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37. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 3, 2011, 01:25 Dingus McCool
 
I've been reading about these so called impossible or extremely difficult boss fights since this story first broke. And it kind of made me anxious and a bit dissappointed about a game I've thoroughly enjoyed since my style of play is primarily stealth. Now that I've just got past Namir I don't see what the big deal is here? Seriously?

For me Barrett was the toughest, and I think it had a lot to do with him being the first. It took me five tries to figure him out. I beat Yelena on the first attempt. Yes, she could cloak but if you watch closely you can see her trail in the water when she moves. Easy to track her. Namir I beat on the second try. Assault Rifle and Frag Grenades on Barrett. For Yelena and Namir I used EMP's and a heavily modified pistol that I pumped full of damage upgrades. I stayed on the move and aimed for head shots. No Typhoon or other augs used, no cheats, no lowering of difficulty level.

The developers may have dropped the ball on some of their claims. Still they've done this property justice with this title. Best game I've played this year. In the end it comes down to your style of play. If you trusted the biochip exchange element. I have to ask, what were you thinking? This is Deus Ex. Question everything, trust no one.
 
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36. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 2, 2011, 23:59 saluk
 
The more possible outcomes the better, for sure, but there are of course limits. The idea shouldn't be to force a non-violent solution or a violent one, but to make all choices valid. Some might have better results than others, or be more or less difficult. The most important is that all the options available feel natural. Yes if you are locked in a room with a fight to the death, it makes sense that death is the only solution, but the fact that you are locked in the room in a fight to the death is a storyline contrivance to begin with, which doesn't at all feel natural. Even the first Deus Ex had a few spots where the limits were obvious and felt bolted on.

I really respect this developer though. For them to come out and admit that it was a bad choice, AND to not let the outsourced team who actually implemented the fights take the blame for it, is really awesome! Geez, it's not even like the poor boss fights were a complete disaster, they just seem less polished than the rest of the game.

Props to Eidos Montreal for being real class acts in an industry full of greedy ego-tripping jerks.
 
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35. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 2, 2011, 22:30 Yaogun
 
Jerykk wrote on Nov 2, 2011, 18:01:
To be fair, you were being punished for not paying attention to details. If you read all the e-mails, PDAs, etc, you wouldn't have chosen to have your augs "repaired" and you wouldn't have been handicapped during that fight.

Oh absolutely. Much of my rage was because I didn't think to save before that decision. I still wish the boss fights had felt more DX-like.

My favorite game of the year, maybe tied with Portal 2. I hope they're working on a sequel, and that they don't mess with the formula too much!
 
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34. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 2, 2011, 21:48 Brumbek
 
Acleacius wrote on Nov 2, 2011, 19:32:
Really? What about arresting people or would that mean society itself is partly responsible for the citizens it raises.

Their deaths did nothing for the game, it was the player that mattered. The player had to live, none of them had to die.

No one is trying to take away your bloodlust to kill, you don't get to force it on the rest of us.
Um...right, I think you missed my point. When you're locked in a room with a psychopath who wants to kill you, you can't just call the police and have someone arrested.

Also, [SPOILER] you do realize you didn't "kill" the first boss, but rather he killed himself rather than be taken alive?

I suppose you also wanted a way to arrest Bob Page at the end of DX1???

My point: forcing a non-violent method for all villains is just as lame as forcing a violent method for all bad guys. DX3 let you keep all low-level people alive, but the truly evil bad guys you had to kill because they refused to surrender. Quite realistic actually.
 
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33. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 2, 2011, 21:37 Tanto Edge
 
Yeah, I don't care either way. The boss fights were just weak sauce.. I don't care about all the 'stealth game' 'action game' 'no guns' 'have guns' 'required to kill' blah blah..
The last boss fight was cool, but the first two were stupid.
 
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32. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 2, 2011, 21:37 Sempai
 
nin wrote on Nov 2, 2011, 20:19:

Don't be a Doosh, Prez! It's got PHYSICS!


Oh noes teh spelling police!

To each his own, Syndicate probably will be shit, I'll say from the trailers it looks a helluva lot better than the yawner Doosh ex was, I will miss the in game adds and the color orange though.

And your link to RPS was a worthy argument when he states he played the game for 10 min.

Yeah you win.
 
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31. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 2, 2011, 21:05 PropheT
 
Jdrez wrote on Nov 2, 2011, 20:01:
They never should have been there in the first place. Boss fights are a stupid, archaic throwback to the days when they needed a cheap excuse to keep you pumping in quarters.

They're unrealistic and serve no purpose in a game like DX HR.

I like boss fights. To each his own, I guess, but they made perfect sense in DX and I thought they were fun.

The fight against the 3rd guy when my optics were all messed up was epic. I still can't believe there's as big of a deal being made about the boss fights in the game as there has been.

 
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30. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 2, 2011, 20:56 Acleacius
 
Deus Ex HR
The endings confused me.
 
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.It works the same way in any country.
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29. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 2, 2011, 20:39 Fion
 
I forgive you Eidos: Montreal.

/cracks a whip

Now get to work on a sequel already! And if you feel so bad about the fights, then put a handful of people on a team and have them fix them and release those fixes for free.

For the record, my first game was completely a silent build using a heavily modded tranq gun. I went this way with each fight, only picking up a heavy weapon 'during' the boss fights. Hell I beat the chick by mostly using the PEPS to stun, then the machine pistol. It was grueling.


Still, with the boss fights, the game is still GotY. Every other game to hit this year (besides perhaps Portal 2) had serious issues, day 1 bugs that left even console players unable to play the game or shortsighted design that got boring within a week. Even BF3 is RIFE with bugs and other issues on all platforms, and that is what keeps it from being GotY for me.

Considering I'm only getting one more game by the end of the year (SW:TOR, I already per-purchased Batman: Arkham City.. $35 ftw!) Unless they are hardcore awesome, DX:HR is by FAR GotY for me.

This comment was edited on Nov 2, 2011, 20:50.
 
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28. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 2, 2011, 20:23 Prez
 
nin wrote on Nov 2, 2011, 20:19:

Don't be a Doosh, Prez! It's got PHYSICS!


I think you mean "FIZZIX", don't you?

Just kidding Sempai - I'm not a spelling Nazi. Honest!
 
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27. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 2, 2011, 20:19 nin
 


Don't be a Doosh, Prez! It's got PHYSICS!

 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
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26. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 2, 2011, 20:16 Prez
 
Sempai wrote on Nov 2, 2011, 19:25:
Have you even watched a lick of footage? Want me to break it down for you? The physics alone make Doosh Ex look like a 4 year old console port, oh wait, it is.

Doosh Ex? Really? I'm assuming you mean "Douche" Ex, but regardless, to call it such is so... juvenile, don't you think?

It's cool that you are looking forward to Syndicate, which, despite the unfortunate brand hijack, looks like it is coming together as a nifty FPS, but you'll forgive the rest of us if we don't share in your certainty of it supremacy sight unseen.
 
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25. Re: More on Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Woes Nov 2, 2011, 20:06 bigspender
 
i've fixed their release statement

"We knew that game was broken / unfinished, but we wanted to take your money anyway"
 
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