Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming

John Carmack tweets about plans for a new texture option in the upcoming patch for the Windows PC edition" of RAGE, id's new first person shooter: "We have a bicubic-upsample+detail texture option for the next PC patch that will help alleviate the blurry textures in Rage." A follow up tweet offers more on this: "@DesignerDon our first test of a higher res page file didn't help much, because most source textures didn't actually have any more detail."

View
149 Replies. 8 pages. Viewing page 5.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ] Older >

69. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 01:02 Jerykk
 
Prez wrote on Oct 15, 2011, 23:24:
That's now how I interpreted his statement at all. He's saying that developing for a superior platform doesn't matter if you don't have the budget to create a game that takes advantage of it.

Nah, I didn't get that. Remember, he was speaking in the context of explaining why the PC version launched with significant technical troubles and missing features. In other words, the PC, while the most powerful platform, is also the lowest selling platform, thus not important enough to dedicate enough resources to ensure a working product at launch. Maybe it's just me, but taken in the context of the entire interview, that's what I get out of it.

Did you read his whole statement? It's HERE.

Here's what he said: "We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games," Carmack added. "That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version. A high end PC is nearly 10 times as powerful as a console, and we could unquestionably provide a better experience if we chose that as our design point and we were able to expend the same amount of resources on it. Nowadays most of the quality of a game comes from the development effort put into it, not the technology it runs on. A game built with a tenth the resources on a platform 10 times as powerful would be an inferior product in almost all cases."

Given that context, it seems to me that he's talking about budgets more than anything else. Unless you're making an MMO, a PC-exclusive will never be given as big a budget as a AAA multiplatform title, so even if you're designing for the most powerful platform, you simply won't have the resources to take full advantage of it. Most publishers won't even fund a AAA PC-exclusive and it's pretty difficult to convince them that PC should be the lead SKU for a multiplatform title. Would RAGE have been a better experience if it were a PC-exclusive and had the same budget that it received as a multiplatform title? Sure. But the reality is that it wouldn't have gotten the same budget. It would have gotten a considerably lower budget. That's what Carmack is saying.
 
Avatar 20715
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
68. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 00:44 saluk
 
Creston wrote on Oct 15, 2011, 22:33:
saluk wrote on Oct 15, 2011, 17:53:
What we lost in texture definition up close, we reaped 10 fold in texture variety.

Theoretically, megatexture is supposed to allow that, yeah.

In practice, those "infinitely varied textures" (id's words) are 900000 rooms with pipes drawn on the wall, quite a few copy/paste jobs, and a lot of it just looks really poor.

If you're just running through and shooting, I will admit you don't really notice it. But for a PC game released in 2011, it just looks terrible. Again, inside; the outside is beautiful (though still not as beautiful as Just Cause 2, or Crysis.)

Some people find it a worthwhile tradeoff. Personally, I don't. It's one thing to have lower res textures, but Rage literally has shit that's like 4x4. That's just ridiculous.

Creston

Actually I spend most of my time walking up to every object and marveling at it. It's something I haven't done in a game in a long time. It's obvious that 1) the art doesn't live up to the potential, and 2) technical issues really bring the whole thing down. A lot of people are seeing even lower resolution textures than they should.

Also, the game design really doesn't justify the use of the technology. So yeah, it makes sense that most of (at least the vocal minority) are complaining about the flaws and not seeing the point.

It's all in the eyes of the beholder really.

I've got no defense for the botched release. They should have delayed it for the pc, but then of course we would still be complaining...
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
67. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 23:24 Prez
 
That's now how I interpreted his statement at all. He's saying that developing for a superior platform doesn't matter if you don't have the budget to create a game that takes advantage of it.

Nah, I didn't get that. Remember, he was speaking in the context of explaining why the PC version launched with significant technical troubles and missing features. In other words, the PC, while the most powerful platform, is also the lowest selling platform, thus not important enough to dedicate enough resources to ensure a working product at launch. Maybe it's just me, but taken in the context of the entire interview, that's what I get out of it.

Did you read his whole statement? It's HERE.
 
Avatar 17185
 
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
66. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 23:24 Prez
 
Double post. Woopsie.  
Avatar 17185
 
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
65. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 23:12 born2expire
 
How about a option to turn off the stupid auto configure John? The game ran OK on my i7 and 6950 corssfire box, but constant frame dips (mainly in towns) and the last level of the game ran at 15fps no matter what graphic options/settings I used. Thanks for your genius, I really appreciate that insight that took everything away from the user.  
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
64. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 23:01 Razumen
 
id should have just released the PC version with higher resolution textures out of the gate. I can understand that a new engine can have growing pains, especially one with such new tech like megatexture, but it was completely idiotic of them to think that the PC version would do fine with the same low-res files that the consoles are limited with.

I still want to play Rage, it looks more varied and fun outta the box than Doom 3 was, while still being all that I ever wanted it to be: a good plain id shooter.

Too bad Carmack doesn't really call the shots at his own company anymore though, guess he shouldn't have sold it. :p
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
63. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 23:00 gilly775
 
So when are they going to fix the every 5 second freezing with the 5770 cards? Worst purchase of my life here. So much for putting my faith into id to giving me a playable game on Day 1.  
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
62. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 22:54 Jerykk
 
He admitted that the PC version did not get the level of support it needed to ensure a good launch because it is a smaller market. Regardless of which platform sells the best, that's unprofessional and offensively dismissive. His words:

Nowadays most of the quality of a game comes from the development effort put into it, not the technology it runs on. A game built with a tenth the resources on a platform 10 times as powerful would be an inferior product in almost all cases.

That's now how I interpreted his statement at all. He's saying that developing for a superior platform doesn't matter if you don't have the budget to create a game that takes advantage of it. This is true. It costs a lot of money to develop games that look nice. Most publishers don't think that a high-end, PC exclusive will sell enough to warrant this cost. That's why PC exclusives tend to have lower budgets than console exclusives or more commonly, multiplatform releases.

Now, id could have used PC as the lead SKU for RAGE, but that would have made it pretty difficult to port it to consoles. It's always easier to scale up than it is to scale down so id made the more practical choice. The PC version will never reach its full potential because of such bottlenecks, but it's not difficult to understand why developers do this. When it comes to business, the lowest common denominator wins every time.

Your health stops regenerating at higher difficulty levels.

You sure about that? I'm playing on Hard (second highest difficulty level) and my health definitely regens. If I had known that the highest difficulty stops the health regen, I would have chosen that instead.

This comment was edited on Oct 15, 2011, 23:00.
 
Avatar 20715
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
61. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 22:33 Creston
 
saluk wrote on Oct 15, 2011, 17:53:
What we lost in texture definition up close, we reaped 10 fold in texture variety.

Theoretically, megatexture is supposed to allow that, yeah.

In practice, those "infinitely varied textures" (id's words) are 900000 rooms with pipes drawn on the wall, quite a few copy/paste jobs, and a lot of it just looks really poor.

If you're just running through and shooting, I will admit you don't really notice it. But for a PC game released in 2011, it just looks terrible. Again, inside; the outside is beautiful (though still not as beautiful as Just Cause 2, or Crysis.)

Some people find it a worthwhile tradeoff. Personally, I don't. It's one thing to have lower res textures, but Rage literally has shit that's like 4x4. That's just ridiculous.

Creston
 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
60. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 22:24 Prez
 
Is he supposed to pretend the Xbox doesn't outsell the PC by like 5-to-1? It's like the Matrix up in here, let's all pretend we're eating steak when we're actually in a tube.

You are missing the point, and no one is pretending anything, so cool it with the "I'm the only sane one in this bunch" routine. The flippant response to a question about the technical problems the game was having was ill-advised. I even said:

Sure, I expect that anyone would want to make a console version of their game because they invariably sell the best, but his unprofessional attitude towards the PC gaming market is so dismissive that he has a lot of us long time PC gamers wondering if he, the father of the FPS, is even relevant to us any longer.

He admitted that the PC version did not get the level of support it needed to ensure a good launch because it is a smaller market. Regardless of which platform sells the best, that's unprofessional and offensively dismissive. His words:

Nowadays most of the quality of a game comes from the development effort put into it, not the technology it runs on. A game built with a tenth the resources on a platform 10 times as powerful would be an inferior product in almost all cases.


This comment was edited on Oct 15, 2011, 22:34.
 
Avatar 17185
 
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
59. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 22:23 Creston
 
our first test of a higher res page file didn't help much, because most source textures didn't actually have any more detail

Megatexture! It's the future of gaming! Blurry, low-res shit!

Yes, the game looks very nice for far away textures, and outdoors it's very impressive. Indoors, quite frankly, it looks mostly like crap. Some of these textures are literally a gray smudge with a color blob in it to signify... I dunno, I guess something with a button?

But hey, 5 year old hardware can run it at 60fps! WOOT!

Fuck id tech 5.

Creston
 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
58. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 22:13 Yosemite Sam
 
saluk wrote on Oct 15, 2011, 17:53:
What we lost in texture definition up close, we reaped 10 fold in texture variety. I guess I'm the only one who can see it and appreciate it. Maybe one day we can have both. I'll gladly take the hit. It's been a long time I played a game where just wandering around and staring at stuff has been so distracting.

You're not the only one, I definatly noticed it and it's spectacular. Just that people are too busy staring at an object 6 inches away to stand back and see what the real deal is with megatextures. I too will take the poorer visuals at point blank for the variety.

Rage by the way is not even on the same level of technology as frostbite 2, its like comparing a rubber dingy to a nuclear sub.

You mean Tech5 isnt on the same level as Frostbite2... Funny I checked out this supposedly superior Frostbite 2 engine and what I saw were a handfull of textures repeated over and over and over ad nauseum, every single concrete divider looked exactly the same as every other concrete divider, but sure if you walked right up to it and stared point blank at it, it looked real nice, very plain but hi-res. Not something I tend to do while playing a game... and I definatly noticed all the vegetation and other objects continuously poping into exsistance... and that was a video of the game on an uber PC, look at BF3 on a console, talk about ugly, RAGE kills it graphically. IMO because, it seems, ID built thier game around consoles you havent seen what Tech5 can really do... based on what BF3 looks like on the console and what RAGE looks like on the console I would bet a game made from the ground up for the PC first, using Tech5, would graphically blow everything else out of the water, at 6 inches or a mile... I'm not knocking Frostbite, it was built to do other things, but to claim it has superior GFX is absurd... and to make your comparison correct would be to say its like comparing a missile cruiser to a nuclear sub, both are great at what they were designed to do.

Your health stops regenerating at higher difficulty levels.

I'll definatly go highest difficulty on my next play through, though even without health regen I doubt the game will be very difficult. Maybe some of those mutant hoard set pieces will be tough but thats about it... game needs more bad guys.
 
Avatar 21539
 
CIV4 MOD http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326525
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
57. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 21:34 eRe4s3r
 
Thats true heh But my point was on the "speaking Chinese everywhere on the world" part ;p

But hey, you are right.. i should have left the learn Chinese part out ;p Because that is indeed a logical thing to decide...
 
Avatar 54727
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
56. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 21:01 Mad Max RW
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Oct 15, 2011, 20:24:
And as the largest language group spoked by people on this planet is Chinese, clearly its the only logical thing to do to learn Chinese and speak Chinese everywhere on the world

Just pointing out what a flawed logic that would be, if game-developers would really use it.

And hey, pretend-steak would be a lot healthier...

Heh, it's actually very logical if you want to be a successful business person. More westerners are learning Chinese than any other language after Spanish.
 
Avatar 15920
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
55. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 20:24 Spektr
 
Sorry but I kinda like Rage. The more I play it the more it reminds me of Borderlands though.
Megatextures with Doom interiors? that sounds like Quake wars? Well I feel the interiors looks nice too. A bit like the interiors from a "painted" interior from an adventure game. Very static though. And why is the texture "lag" longer / more obvious inside than outside in Wellspring? And why do some texture have some pixellated bits over them that don't fit the rest of the texture? like for instance you have a chair with a few squares on them that look low res. Anyone noticed?

I kinda like Rage yes but the lack of polish technique wise is very disappointing as I expect more from Mr Carmack. Artistically I think it looks amazing though. The usual high quality art direction really shine on megatexture. Only wish the textures looked better from close up and didnt get blurry every time I turn around. As for the details, it really doesnt compare to what we are used to nowadays but if you look at it as a whole it looks like nothing else before, even with the Borderlands undertones. Back in Deus ex3 or Crysis2 , everything looks shiny and polished but at the same time blocky and cold. The buildings in Rage convey something more organic and realistic. A bit like an impressionist painting, if you look at the details it isnt good but if you look at the whole picture it's powerful..
Could we conclude that Carmack's tech was too early for today's machines, the same ways the low poly models in Quake1 made it look worse than the high poly sprites of other games at the time? Not really because the game runs really smooth on my computer ( smoother than the other games I have mentioned ) but just doesnt behave well. I think there's more power in my computer that can be tapped to get rid of those issues. I wouldn't mind losing a few fps in favour of better rendering.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
54. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 20:24 eRe4s3r
 
And as the largest language group spoken by people on this planet is Chinese, clearly its the only logical thing to do to learn Chinese and speak Chinese everywhere on the world

Just pointing out what a flawed logic that would be, if game-developers would really use it.

And hey, pretend-steak would be a lot healthier...

This comment was edited on Oct 16, 2011, 18:16.
 
Avatar 54727
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
53. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 20:19 eRe4s3r
 
The problem is even if you see those little scribbles you can't read them because they are a blurry mess, and if they are in shadows, a blurry pixelated mess. ^^  
Avatar 54727
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
52. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 20:12 eRe4s3r
 
LOL

 
Avatar 54727
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
51. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 20:05 durandal
 
The big difference there being that 'every' brick texture in Crysis 2 looks exactly like that (though your using a texture mod to make it look even better clearly.) Where as with Rage no two brick walls look the same.

This is not true. They copy & paste the same textures in Rage at noticable levels.

http://sakurasite.homeip.net/imgboard/img-box/img20111007081620.jpg
http://sakurasite.homeip.net/imgboard/img-box/img20111007081658.jpg

The unique thing about the mega textures is when you see little scribbles of graffiti on the wall that aren't clone stamped but left behind by whoever worked on that part of the game
I'm pretty sure I saw the same grafitti clone stamped on the wall a several times as well.

This comment was edited on Oct 15, 2011, 20:13.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
50. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 15, 2011, 20:00 DangerDog
 
oops  
Avatar 6174
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
149 Replies. 8 pages. Viewing page 5.
< Newer [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ] Older >


footer

Blue's News logo