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RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming

John Carmack tweets about plans for a new texture option in the upcoming patch for the Windows PC edition" of RAGE, id's new first person shooter: "We have a bicubic-upsample+detail texture option for the next PC patch that will help alleviate the blurry textures in Rage." A follow up tweet offers more on this: "@DesignerDon our first test of a higher res page file didn't help much, because most source textures didn't actually have any more detail."

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109. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 16:40 eRe4s3r
 
If you quote someone (like me) this way change your view style to threads and reply to my post directly because otherwise how am sposed to know you replied to my post in some obscure part of your post without a proper quote ;p

So to answer you albeit with delay, yeah, i'd rather take concrete barriers that look the same but are extremely detailed up-close particularly if i am supposed to take cover behind them (like in BF3 ,p).. oh and they can be dynamically destroyed.
 
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108. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 16:06 Creston
 
PHJF wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 16:02:
Every other FPS on consoles runs at 30fps. That's a huge difference, and so they're banking on that particular fact selling them millions of copies.

Except you're forgetting Rage has virtually no bankable multiplayer, or do you think some Twisted Metal Lite is going to bring players online?

I'm not, but Carmack clearly is. He's mentioned the 60fps thing in pretty much every single interview and preview he's done for the game.

Creston
 
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107. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 16:02 space captain
 
finally fixed my vsync issue with this game... apparently it was ignoring the global setting and was defaulted to "force off" vsync in the application specific part of the nvidia panel... fuckin weird

anyways the game is pretty underwhelming as an AAA title... its passable but i would have expected more from veteran devs
 
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106. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 16:02 PHJF
 
Every other FPS on consoles runs at 30fps. That's a huge difference, and so they're banking on that particular fact selling them millions of copies.

Except you're forgetting Rage has virtually no bankable multiplayer, or do you think some Twisted Metal Lite is going to bring players online?
 
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105. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 15:35 Creston
 
wrlwnd wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 09:43:
Why Carmack thought this was a good way to go is beyond me. It makes no sense.

Oh, no. It makes PERFECT sense.

Tech 5 allows him to have a good looking game (for consoles) that runs at 60fps on consoles. Every other FPS on consoles runs at 30fps. That's a huge difference, and so they're banking on that particular fact selling them millions of copies.

That it looks like ass on the PC is of no moment when compared to their original goal "Sell like hotcakes on the consoles."

So it makes perfect sense. I just hope John shuts his mouth from now on about how powerful his PCs are at work and how he's going to go back to coding for those. Because it's just kinda sad to see a once-icon of the PC world, who's already bought Ferraris and has a hobby of firing rockets into space, lying his ass off so he can make a few extra dollars.

Creston
 
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104. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 15:12 Kastagir
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 08:46:
Jerykk wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 03:37:
It only makes sense if your only (not primary - only) goals it to make money.

You hit it right on the head. Professional game development is a business, first and foremost. Publishers don't exist to innovate. They exist to profit. Right now, developing for consoles is how you maximize profit. Publishers don't care that console hardware is obsolete. They only care that the vast majority of consumers use console hardware to play games.

I'm not saying I agree with this mentality. I'd love for publishers to focus on PC development and really push the boundaries of both innovation and technology. However, what I want and what reality demands are sometimes two very different things. There's no point in getting frustrated about it because your anger isn't going to change a thing. If you want things to change, you'll have to do one of the following:

1) Become an indie developer that creates PC-exclusive games that are innovative and technically amazing.
2) Create a publisher that funds innovative and technically amazing PC-exclusives.
3) Boycott any games that aren't PC-exclusive.

Exxaaactly.

People who complain about EA only wanting money baffle me. What do you want them to be motivated by? They're a corporation, they only exist to make money for their shareholders. That's it, that's their entire purpose. Same with Bethesda, same with Activision, same with any gaming company. Even most indies are looking to pay the rent first and foremost, they just see innovation as the way to do that because they don't have the dev budget to focus on much else.


Just to be clear, I was talking about id software, not their publisher.

I don't care about the publisher - id is able to control how their products are made and sold. This very well may make them unique in the gaming industry, yet they chose to follow the same path as Bioware and countless others. A PC-oriented approach would still allow for a simultaneous console release, but with a clearly superior PC version at launch. This would have only increased the value of the engine to prospective licensees. Sure, it might cost more, but I think the hit to id's reputation for not considering PC technology this time around will turn out to be even more expensive than if they had followed a different course. I also don't buy any argument saying that it would have taken longer. They had 6 years. If they truly worked for 6 years solid on what was ultimately released, then they need to hire more people.
 
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103. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 14:27 Beamer
 
Steam uses 12 on mine as well, with a commit size of 126  
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102. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 14:22 Dades
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 13:05:
The problem with Valve is they have to make sure they get a cut of everything a developer they don't even own makes. I don't blame EA for wanting to cut them out and sell DLC the way they want to in games THEY publish. Fuck Valve, no different than any other publisher out there.

Do you think EA is any happier giving other people a cut? If they can do it to Valve then why would they stop there? Do you want to get everything from EA in the future with no price competition? That's the direction the industry is heading towards. I can't even think of a reason to run Origin other than its requirement to run EA games in the future.
 
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101. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 14:04 Bhruic
 
And Origin uses 84MB of RAM when idle; Steam users 12MB.

I rebooted (and hence restarted Steam/Origin) less than an hour ago. Steam is using 87MB right now. Origin is using 73MB. Not arguing the rest of your points, but let's not give undue credit to Steam.
 
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100. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 13:43 theyarecomingforyou
 
RollinThundr wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 13:05:
The problem with Valve is they have to make sure they get a cut of everything a developer they don't even own makes. I don't blame EA for wanting to cut them out and sell DLC the way they want to in games THEY publish. Fuck Valve, no different than any other publisher out there.
Valve doesn't demand a cut of DLC if it isn't sold via-Steam. That's the point. They only stipulate that you must be able to buy all DLC through Steam as well, which is a fair request. Otherwise developers could add new content in a patch which downloads via-Steam and yet keep all the profit themselves by selling it through their own website. That means additional costs for Valve with no ability to generate revenue from it. The changes were necessary to prevent abuse AND to allow them to offer free-2-play titles.

In the end Steam actually benefits customers, which is why gamers have embraced it. EA digital sales used to expire, which prevented you from being able to redownload them. It took them years to change their tact and that was a direct result of Steam.

Considering the amount of exposure that Steam generates for titles and the costs of providing unlimited redownloading and patching of games, updates which are charged on competing services like Xbox Live, it's not unfair to take such a cut and it is less than physically distributing a game. With Steam a title can continue to generate income for as long as Steam exists, whereas physical distribution is incredibly limited.

Steam offers online storage of game saves, 1GB of online storage for screenshots, achievements, matchmaking, voice chat, additional game tools (SDKs, soundtracks, dedicated servers), game trading, item trading, online, hassle free installs, the ability to check for driver updates, etc. And Origin uses 84MB of RAM when idle; Steam users 12MB. Meanwhile, Origin offers... a bigger cut of the revenue for EA. Just look at the EA store - it's loads of overpriced EA games.

Bash Steam all you like but you can piss off if you're trying to tell me that Origin offers more to gamers.
 
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99. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 13:20 Prez
 
Dades wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 10:46:
People who complain about EA only wanting money baffle me. What do you want them to be motivated by?

Maybe people want them to be motivated by creative influences too. We don't accept that everyone should just say welp they're a corporation and only care about money derp derp as some sort of excuse for everything they do, it's stupid. People know they want to make money, almost every person on the planet wants to make money. We don't need you to tell us that. We also want them to have some motivations to further their craft at the same time, something many companies manage to do while making money.

Wow, you said exactly what I was thinking. Perfect.
 
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98. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 13:16 Prez
 
How did Rage fail you in this regard?

It didn't. It didn't fail me at all, as I haven't bought it yet. I sort of sidetracked part of the discussion to the comments made by John Carmack when interviewed about Rage's launch, which bothered me to a degree. I was more responding to Jerykk's comment which I quoted.

Though the fact that id itself admits to problems with the PC version indicates that RAGE, at least initially, failed the "works properly" litmus test. For further testimony, I'll just copy and paste post 87, though there are others in this thread.

No graphics options out-of-the-box. Horrible mouse acceleration in menus. 'Press Enter' to start. Textures optimised for 720p (as stated by Carmack at QuakeCON 2011) and consoles - no consideration made for digital distribution on PC. Poor inventory system (no click-and-drag). Console optimised quick-menu for weapons - you cannot change secondary ammo types for a weapon outside your quick-four. Quicksave actually pauses the game.

Plus Carmack admitted they were too focused on the console version, which is patently obvious at this point.
 
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97. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 13:05 RollinThundr
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Oct 16, 2011, 12:31:
The problem with EA is that they take a game like Battlefield 3, then they force it to use Origin in order to make more money - at the same time they stop distributing via-Steam, simply because Valve asked that all DLC be ALSO sold on Steam. That's because with Origin or physical distribution they get a much, much bigger percentage of a sale; with Valve they can lose up to 1/3 (probably less given EA's size).

As for id Software. I don't think they sold out but I do think they were foolish to make the compromises that they did. They were very open about optimising textures for 720p for the console and about limiting the texture quality because of disk space. They then made the most common mistakes with cross-platform titles - they used a limited FOV with no option to customise it, they messed up with mouse acceleration of menus, they used overly large text in UIs, they used a quick-access config designed for controllers but very cumbersome on PC and they didn't include any video options in order to simplify the experience when the auto-optimiser they used was simply terrible.

Also, by not properly communicating with the fanbase they made things worse. If they had responded quickly it would have made a huge difference. They stated they might release a high quality texture pack. Well, given all the criticism it makes sense to quickly come out and say "yes, we'll be releasing it within a month" or whatever - by not saying anything it looks much worse. To spend millions on developing a game, then millions more on advertising and then not bother to assign one person to go around all the different forums responding to concerns is quite astounding. And by failing to work closely enough with AMD they managed to screw up the drivers people were using at launch, which is the fault of both companies. I've also heard plenty of complaints from nVidia users as well.

The problem with Valve is they have to make sure they get a cut of everything a developer they don't even own makes. I don't blame EA for wanting to cut them out and sell DLC the way they want to in games THEY publish. Fuck Valve, no different than any other publisher out there.
 
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96. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 12:48 Beelzebud
 
I tried playing Rage last night, and ended again in frustration. The more I think about this fiasco of a game, the more I realize one thing: This was a pretty cool research project, that should have been dropped like a sack of potatoes the moment it was understood what the negative aspects would be.

Trading high resolution textures on everything you're close to, for really amazing looking cliffs, just isn't practical. Look at those comparison shots upthread. I'd almost bet that I can boot up Quake 2, and find more detailed textures than some of those Rage textures.

Between how bad the game looks, when you're not admiring the horizon, and the fact that it is still a buggy, crash-happy mess, that hogs up 25GB of my hard drive, I uninstalled it last night after I "finished" my play session (it finally crashed one time too many). Not sure if I'll ever bother with it again.

The fact that id tried to just shovel the blame off on to ATI really bugs me. Accept some personal responsibility. If this were all the fault of ATI, then why are nvidia users having the same types of issues?

This is not the company I grew up loving, and that's fine. I don't owe them further business.
 
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95. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 12:31 theyarecomingforyou
 
The problem with EA is that they take a game like Battlefield 3, then they force it to use Origin in order to make more money - at the same time they stop distributing via-Steam, simply because Valve asked that all DLC be ALSO sold on Steam. That's because with Origin or physical distribution they get a much, much bigger percentage of a sale; with Valve they can lose up to 1/3 (probably less given EA's size).

As for id Software. I don't think they sold out but I do think they were foolish to make the compromises that they did. They were very open about optimising textures for 720p for the console and about limiting the texture quality because of disk space. They then made the most common mistakes with cross-platform titles - they used a limited FOV with no option to customise it, they messed up with mouse acceleration of menus, they used overly large text in UIs, they used a quick-access config designed for controllers but very cumbersome on PC and they didn't include any video options in order to simplify the experience when the auto-optimiser they used was simply terrible.

Also, by not properly communicating with the fanbase they made things worse. If they had responded quickly it would have made a huge difference. They stated they might release a high quality texture pack. Well, given all the criticism it makes sense to quickly come out and say "yes, we'll be releasing it within a month" or whatever - by not saying anything it looks much worse. To spend millions on developing a game, then millions more on advertising and then not bother to assign one person to go around all the different forums responding to concerns is quite astounding. And by failing to work closely enough with AMD they managed to screw up the drivers people were using at launch, which is the fault of both companies. I've also heard plenty of complaints from nVidia users as well.
 
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94. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 11:40 PHJF
 
you cannot change secondary ammo types for a weapon outside your quick-four.

There is a bind specifically for changing ammo types.

People who complain about EA only wanting money baffle me. What do you want them to be motivated by?

It's all well and good for a publisher like EA to be motivated by money, but some of us like to think there are developers out there who sincerely want to make good games. "Back in the day" I would read about Peter Molyneux, Will Wright, Sid Meier and eagerly anticipate their products. I think we all know what happened then.
 
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93. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 11:27 Overon
 
And are graphics the only way to innovate.
Graphics are the only thing the id is capable of innovating. And that is mostly on the consoles because they don't look so hot on PC's. Have you played RAGE? Take away the graphics and what do you have? A game that was obviously rushed for release, just look at the ending. It's the easiest way to tell if a game was released too early, the ending is abrupt.
 
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92. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 11:00 El Pit
 
It's not the game that need so be fixed. It's id software that needs to be patched to become compatible with pcs again.  
Consoles? I owned two: a Pong clone and an Atari 2600. And that's it.
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91. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 10:46 Beamer
 
Developing on 7-year-old obsolete console hardware doesn't make any sense if your goal is to innovate. It only makes sense if your only (not primary - only) goals it to make money. It's a short-sighted path that will lead to the demise of many developers.

Completely untrue.
What if you want to innovate on 7 year old consoles?
And are graphics the only way to innovate.

I don't think Carmack is a greedy asshole that only cares about money. He cares about making the widest group of people as happy as possible.

That means he codes for consoles, not PCs.
 
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90. Re: RAGE PC Texture Fix Coming Oct 16, 2011, 10:46 Dades
 
People who complain about EA only wanting money baffle me. What do you want them to be motivated by?

Maybe people want them to be motivated by creative influences too. We don't accept that everyone should just say welp they're a corporation and only care about money derp derp as some sort of excuse for everything they do, it's stupid. People know they want to make money, almost every person on the planet wants to make money. We don't need you to tell us that. We also want them to have some motivations to further their craft at the same time, something many companies manage to do while making money.
 
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