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On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles

A new walkthrough trailer and three new screenshots are now available for The Missing Link, the upcoming DLC for Deus Ex: Human Revolution. There are also previews of the DLC on Ars Technica, Joystiq, G4tv, PC Gamer, and Shacknews, and an article on Eurogamer focusing on how it will include a new boss battle which was created in-house at Eidos Montreal, since it was recently revealed that the boss battles in the action/RPG prequel were outsourced. "We have a boss battle at the end, but it's different from the main game boss battles," Marc-Andre Dufort, producer of The Missing Link told them. "You can actually not kill the boss. You can do a non lethal takedown on him. And you can kill him from afar. You can even kill him without him seeing you. It's more of a bigger challenge than a standard boss fight like we have in many games."

On that subject, there's also an interview with Jean-François Dugas of Eidos Montreal on Rock, Paper, Shotgun where the project lead on Deus Ex: Human Revolution answers questions about the the upcoming DLC, endings, the PC version, transhumanism themes, ideas they cut from the design, and more where he also offers his take on those outsourced boss fights:

When we started the goal was to have those boss fights with the same design and rules as the rest of the game. We had our pillars of stealth, of non-lethal actions, and everything else, and we wanted to make sure that was reflected in the bosses, but in the end it was not. It’s the place where people were surprised because they would equip themselves in a certain way and then they got their and everything they’d fought for disappeared. You have to change your mindset, which can be upsetting. I think the biggest weakness there wasn’t the concept of having boss fights, it’s just that our boss fights are not Deus Ex boss fights and that’s why people are complaining about them. I guess we live and learn.

Should we have cut them? It’s a decision we made, we said “well at least they will be entertaining in some fashion”. The biggest surprise, actually, was having released the game and finding that people thought they were frustrating. Not just that they weren’t that interesting, but that they were frustrating. The playtesters internally gave us a lot of good feedback for the game, and on the bosses they felt that the fights were entertaining and making you use what you had learned. They didn’t say they were frustrating. We knew it was not in step with the rest of the game, but the surprise for us was that the playtesting was correct everywhere but the bossfights. So lesson learned.

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45 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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45. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 25, 2011, 05:46 ShakaUVM
 
Ruffiana wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 18:48:
Only problem with that is it's a strict gating into Typhoon pretty early in the game...when I'd much rather be putting points into hacking or other skills required to access areas of the game that you'd otherwise miss. Hacking stealth, fortify, capture levels, strength upgrade, jump height upgrade, inventory upgrades...plenty of things that are exceedingly useful the sooner you can get them and having to reserve 2 points just to deal with the 1st boss fight is pretty shitty.

They'd win major kudoos from me if they revisted just the 1st boss fight. Give a non-lethal or stealth based tactic to taking him down.
I didn't take the Typhoon at all. You don't need it to beat the bosses.

Just pump ~20 stun darts into a boss (they chain stun) and they go down. It's pretty easy, and I didn't feel comfortable breaking my non-lethal track record, even though I knew it wouldn't matter for the achievements.
 
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44. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 24, 2011, 01:02 saluk
 
I'm more used to people standing up for their failed decisions and claiming that the people who are not enjoying them are looking at it the wrong way or some such nonsense. He actually says it was probably wrong. Do I expect them to patch it or fix it later? Not really. It's flawed design, but it's not like an actual bug. I don't expect them to delete scenes from movies that I thought were stupid or worked against the movie when they come out on dvd - and certain people who keep editing their movies till the end of time is one of the most annoying things ever. Admit the mistake, try to do better in future, that's the best take on things I think.

It's perfectly reasonable to assume the playtesters feedback made them think it was not worth delaying the release to fix boss battles or delete them entirely.
 
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43. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 24, 2011, 00:57 saluk
 
I dunno, I kinda like this designer.  
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42. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 24, 2011, 00:33 DNForever
 
I was doing non-lethal if possible for a while, and then they killed Malik and I went on a fucking rampage. Sniper rifle to the face from a few steps away, knocking out civilians and dropping them off the roof, inciting confusion then doing the typhoon. When I got to the harvesters hideout, I started to chill and play normal again. But I still took out all the harvesters.  
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41. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 23:27 Jerykk
 
And anyone that wanted to learn more about the story would want to hack every computer and open ever storage cabinet, which completely through off the pacing.

Except it was all optional. If you didn't want to slow down and read that stuff, you didn't have to. Aside from that, I'm not really sure how else the player could learn backstory. Personally, I loved reading all those e-mails, PDAs, magazines, etc. In fact, I read pretty much every piece of text in the game. I'd much rather do that and learn the backstory pro-actively, rather than just sit there and be spoon-fed it through mandatory cutscenes or dialogue. And no, having audio diaries randomly strewn about the levels is not a good alternative either.

Developers that rely on temp hired game testers obviously don't care about the final product. If they really cared then they would hire at least one of us gamers for a decent wage and get an experienced and honest opinion...if they game sucked then we would tell them and help them build a game that would be fun.

I think you're mistaking a QA tester with a playtester. A QA tester's job is to find bugs, report them and regress the fixes. A playtester's job is to play a game and provide feedback. In fact, calling it a job is something of a stretch, as it's usually a one-time deal that only lasts a few days. A lot of playtesters are friends or family of the devs themselves or volunteers chosen from the press.

It would come as no surprise to me that QA testers didn't find the boss fights frustrating, given that they played through the game countless times. After a while, it becomes so routine that they don't even think about it as a game. On the other hand, I do find it surprising that playtesters didn't have any frustration. Maybe they were using saves with high-level or heavily-armed builds.

This comment was edited on Sep 23, 2011, 23:35.
 
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40. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 22:03 Rockn-Roll
 
OK...lots of comments from me on this.

1) Play testers are usually hired from temp agencies with little or no experience...I'm sure they "attempt" to find people that have played games before and "attempt" to find people that have played that kind of game before. But, the bottom line is that they contract out to a temp agency in order to get 20 or 30 cheap game testers that they can use for a couple of months and then dump without notice. I know because I was hired to test a game for Nintendo and they didn't require any previous gaming...they do see it as a plus...and my skills did allow me to free-form test while everyone else had to follow scripts, but game testing gets the smallest budget and is the poorest quality stage of development. And, also when someone is paying you to do something it is not a good idea to say that their product sucks...everybody that I have game tested with was desperate for the minimum wage job and afraid that they might lose their job if they made honest comments...testers tend to only make comments that they have absolute proof that there is a problem. And, if they say the game sucks then the developers might just figure that they didn't have any fun because they aren't interested in video games or whatever.

Developers that rely on temp hired game testers obviously don't care about the final product. If they really cared then they would hire at least one of us gamers for a decent wage and get an experienced and honest opinion...if they game sucked then we would tell them and help them build a game that would be fun.

2) When they outsourced the boss battles they failed to specify that players must be able to win using stealth and non-lethal attacks. The failure was on Square Enix and Eidos.

3) The boss battles do have some tricks you can use such throwing barrels to kill the first one, or for the second boss if you purchased the dermal plating preventing electro-shock and destroyed the nodes or just jumped up onto one of the sub panel boxes, or cloaking for the last, or just typhoon them all. But, the point is that for example I played non-lethal stealth my first play through. I didn't carry any weapons other than a Tranqulizer gun with just a few ammo...most of my inventory was concussion grenades, gas grenades, health items, and power bars. I honestly didn't think about any boss battles because I wanted to play Deus Ex on Deus Ex mode and have fun. I didn't think about using the barrels in the first one because I didn't even know I could since I only used them to hide behind all the previous 10 hours of the game. Tranquilizer darts did absolutely nothing to any of the bosses. I had to restart the game from the beginning (I didn't know we could save our progress anywhere because it had that auto-save thing and usually games that auto-saved don't allow user saves).

Requiring a kill to the boss meant that I needed to carry some heavy weaponry with me all through the rest of the game just so I can make it past the boss battles! That sucked! I had to purchase the full inventory and I still barely had enough ammo to kill the rest of the bosses...yeah there are tricks to kill them, but I didn't know what the tricks were the first time through and since I was being forced to fight then I chose to use weapons. Eventually, and even though I wanted to play stealth and non-lethal, I had to carry the rocket launcher and all the rockets I could find or buy all through the game just so I spent as little time as necessary in the boring boss battles.
 
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Let's Rock!
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39. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 21:24 ^Drag0n^
 
loomy wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 20:40:
as usual, hubris. people think they know it all.

guess what, peckers. the lesson isn't learned until you fix it. you fix the error you shipped. it is called a patch. you don't sell people new patches first, you fix what you shipped. idiots.

looking forward to the new "DLC". not

Umm. They've patched the game. 3 times. For free. DLC isn't due for 2-3 weeks.

Point?

Look, the boss battles are weak, we ALL get it, but just drop two level 2 Typhoons on the Bosses and move on. Seriously. I spent more time loading the game the first time I played it than I did on all of the bosses. Combined.


^D^
 
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"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
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38. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 21:16 Creston
 
Ruffiana wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 18:48:
Only problem with that is it's a strict gating into Typhoon pretty early in the game...

True, but you get absolutely SHOWERED in those. I was already wondering what to put stuff in by the time I got to the first boss fight.

Besides, you CAN beat him quite easy. Bring three concussion grenades, or a stun gun, or just kite him around a pillar.

I still agree, it sucks that as a ghost you have to fight the guy out in the open, but there's plenty of ways to deal with him. 2 points for typhoon is, imo, well worth not having to deal with the boss fights.

(and it's literally just hit F2 three times to kill every single one of them.)

Creston
 
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37. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 20:56 Acleacius
 
The problem is they are pretending as if they didn't know what was going on with the design of their own game. Not to mention the fact that this dlc is SO out of place it's not even part of the game.

I've already said I enjoyed the game, many times. Just because we criticize the bad decisions or designs doesn't mean we didn't enjoy the game's good parts. If we didn't complain about the Boss battles, would they be addressing them? No.

Here is another one. Can anyone explain why a player can go through the game killing everyone possible, to get to the end of the game. Then have a choice to press 3 (4) buttons. One of which talks about how the player used RESTRAINT at every opportunity? As if they are a bastion of sainthood, the same ending a nonviolent player took?
 
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.It works the same way in any country.
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36. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 20:40 loomy
 
as usual, hubris. people think they know it all.

guess what, peckers. the lesson isn't learned until you fix it. you fix the error you shipped. it is called a patch. you don't sell people new patches first, you fix what you shipped. idiots.

looking forward to the new "DLC". not
 
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35. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 20:13 DNForever
 
What he's saying is, I didn't realize you guys all suck worse than the playtesters. It's always funny in a sad way, how lightly these industry guys tread when they give interviews, but I guess that's what you have to do considering peoples fragile sensibilities these days. All this "live and learn" stuff, what a pile of shit. Just stand by your game and your decisions, and if people don't like the boss fights too fuckin bad, they're approx 1 percent of the overall game.  
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34. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 19:35 ^Drag0n^
 
nin wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 18:40:
I'm beginning to wonder if Eidos Montreal actually did any of the work on this console game.

Oh please...drama much?


Agreed. I disliked the boss battles, but overall? That game was top notch.

^D^
 
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"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
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33. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 19:20 Fibrocyte
 
born2expire wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 13:48:
yes they should have cut the boss battles. i made it to the 2nd boss and stopped playing the game in disgust, I was enjoying the game rather immensely until the boss fights.

hopefully they'll patch them out in the future and then i'll play the game again.

Are you a spoiled brat? A bit of a girly man? Did you really stop 'playing the game in disgust' because of 3 boss encounters? You could have just temporarily changed the difficulty level to the easiest until you defeated the boss.
 
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32. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 19:09 Acleacius
 
nin wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 18:40:
I'm beginning to wonder if Eidos Montreal actually did any of the work on this console game.

Oh please...drama much?

Oh, I needed to put a /scarcasm, my bad.
 
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.It works the same way in any country.
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31. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 18:48 Ruffiana
 
Creston wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 13:53:
born2expire wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 13:48:
yes they should have cut the boss battles. i made it to the 2nd boss and stopped playing the game in disgust, I was enjoying the game rather immensely until the boss fights.

hopefully they'll patch them out in the future and then i'll play the game again.

Put two points in typhoon. Bring 3 typhoon ammo. Hit F2 three times when the boss is right beside you. End of boss fight.

I feel the same way you do about the boss fight, but don't let them ruin what's a very good rest of the game. The typhoon is basically there for you to nuke boss fights with.

Creston

Only problem with that is it's a strict gating into Typhoon pretty early in the game...when I'd much rather be putting points into hacking or other skills required to access areas of the game that you'd otherwise miss. Hacking stealth, fortify, capture levels, strength upgrade, jump height upgrade, inventory upgrades...plenty of things that are exceedingly useful the sooner you can get them and having to reserve 2 points just to deal with the 1st boss fight is pretty shitty.

They'd win major kudoos from me if they revisted just the 1st boss fight. Give a non-lethal or stealth based tactic to taking him down.
 
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30. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 18:45 Creston
 
^Drag0n^ wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 18:03:
For those that were wondering:

The Burger menu that came out for the last patch works fine with the one released last night. They apparently did an EXE only patch to address performance issues.

You can get the current version of the Burger/Debug Mod here or here.

I recommend verifying the integrity of your files and re-applying the mod to avoid any unnecessary weirdness.

^D^

Thanks man

Creston
 
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29. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 18:40 nin
 
I'm beginning to wonder if Eidos Montreal actually did any of the work on this console game.

Oh please...drama much?

 
http://store.nin.com/index.php?cPath=10
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28. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 18:13 Acleacius
 
No company sends out a project this important without oversight or DIRECTION. Nor is there any reason to believe they didn't know the qualifications of this studio or saw examples of their work. No way in hell a developer didn't know what their outsource was doing or for that matter the idea the outsource wasn't being overseen and meeting deadlines.

There is only one explanation about the movie with the developer of the boss battles. He made that movie becasue he thought it was going to be on the MAKING OF video, not being thrown to the wolves to cover eidos' ass from incompetence. It's why we all cringe when we watch it and he is happily nervous. He thinks he is making fps console game boss battles.

Now where would he get that idea?

I'm beginning to wonder if Eidos Montreal actually did any of the work on this console game.
 
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.It works the same way in any country.
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27. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 18:03 ^Drag0n^
 
For those that were wondering:

The Burger menu that came out for the last patch works fine with the one released last night. They apparently did an EXE only patch to address performance issues.

You can get the current version of the Burger/Debug Mod here or here.

I recommend verifying the integrity of your files and re-applying the mod to avoid any unnecessary weirdness.

^D^
 
Avatar 55075
 
"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
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26. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 17:48 Kedyn
 
PropheT wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 16:00:
Overon wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 15:00:
Some people still don't get it. Confronting the people that killed all those employees of Sariff Industries is not the problem (the Boss fight is no the issue). The fact that you have KILL the boss is the problem.

Why wouldn't Adam kill them? They tore him apart, killed his girlfriend and a bunch of other people, and are apparently coming back for more. Stealth and pacifism is a gameplay mechanic, not a story mechanic, especially for a guy like Adam who's decked out with military grade combat hardware and a chip on his shoulder. Stealthing around and not killing anyone isn't something he's doing because he's some kind of pacifist monk.


Good point. That, and it'd give too much of the story away ahead of time if you got every answer out of Barrett. Though technically you didn't kill him - he kinda committed suicide. Kinda.
 
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