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On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles

A new walkthrough trailer and three new screenshots are now available for The Missing Link, the upcoming DLC for Deus Ex: Human Revolution. There are also previews of the DLC on Ars Technica, Joystiq, G4tv, PC Gamer, and Shacknews, and an article on Eurogamer focusing on how it will include a new boss battle which was created in-house at Eidos Montreal, since it was recently revealed that the boss battles in the action/RPG prequel were outsourced. "We have a boss battle at the end, but it's different from the main game boss battles," Marc-Andre Dufort, producer of The Missing Link told them. "You can actually not kill the boss. You can do a non lethal takedown on him. And you can kill him from afar. You can even kill him without him seeing you. It's more of a bigger challenge than a standard boss fight like we have in many games."

On that subject, there's also an interview with Jean-François Dugas of Eidos Montreal on Rock, Paper, Shotgun where the project lead on Deus Ex: Human Revolution answers questions about the the upcoming DLC, endings, the PC version, transhumanism themes, ideas they cut from the design, and more where he also offers his take on those outsourced boss fights:

When we started the goal was to have those boss fights with the same design and rules as the rest of the game. We had our pillars of stealth, of non-lethal actions, and everything else, and we wanted to make sure that was reflected in the bosses, but in the end it was not. It’s the place where people were surprised because they would equip themselves in a certain way and then they got their and everything they’d fought for disappeared. You have to change your mindset, which can be upsetting. I think the biggest weakness there wasn’t the concept of having boss fights, it’s just that our boss fights are not Deus Ex boss fights and that’s why people are complaining about them. I guess we live and learn.

Should we have cut them? It’s a decision we made, we said “well at least they will be entertaining in some fashion”. The biggest surprise, actually, was having released the game and finding that people thought they were frustrating. Not just that they weren’t that interesting, but that they were frustrating. The playtesters internally gave us a lot of good feedback for the game, and on the bosses they felt that the fights were entertaining and making you use what you had learned. They didn’t say they were frustrating. We knew it was not in step with the rest of the game, but the surprise for us was that the playtesting was correct everywhere but the bossfights. So lesson learned.

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45 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 2.
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25. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 17:42 Kedyn
 
This sounds like a major failure on the part of their playtesters.  
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24. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 17:33 HorrorScope
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 17:21:
I think it's a mistake for them to lay all the blame on the boss fights. The cutscenes in Deus Ex were also terrible.

Oh you didn't know those were outsourced to? What part did you like? Whatever it was "We did that part!".
 
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23. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 17:31 HorrorScope
 
Wow what I life this took on. Teh drama from all sides, the throwing the outsourced company under the bus trick the highlight. Golf clap.  
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22. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 17:21 theyarecomingforyou
 
I think it's a mistake for them to lay all the blame on the boss fights. The cutscenes in Deus Ex were also terrible. I personally opted to play the game stealthily and yet opening an arbitrary door would trigger a cutscenes showing Jensen blundering into a room like a moron. And there wasn't even any consistent with the checkpoints, as one boss fight it saved before you opened the door and the next would spawn you in front of the boss.

They should have opted for cutscenes using the in-game dialogue system, like Alpha Protocol. All the promotional material promoted the freedom of choice and yet the cutscenes and boss fights run completely contrary to that. You only have to look at a game like The Witcher 2 where you can choose whether you want to fight the final boss or walk away. Same with Alpha Protocol.

I also found the game got a bit side-tracked towards the end. It started incredibly well, yet as you got further it was just one massive warehouse / open yard filled with soldiers after another. That's in comparison to the atmospheric, conspiracy based earlier part in Detroit and Shanghai. They just followed the typical FPS route where the further you get the more enemies you face, the stronger they are, the more weapons you need to fight them and you need massive robots or bosses and an increased difficulty to increase the tension. And anyone that wanted to learn more about the story would want to hack every computer and open ever storage cabinet, which completely through off the pacing.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a great game but I feel it would have been a lot better if they had really challenged the conventions of the genre instead of just incorporating them without any consideration. Cutscenes and boss fights are a dated concept, as is expecting 'hardcore' gamers to read every email, PDA, magazine, etc. And in terms of pacing I don't think any developer compares to Valve with the Half-Life series.
 
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21. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 17:12 DeadlyAccurate
 
briktal wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 16:58:
I didn't even move or take damage while fighting the third boss.

Funny how play styles are so different. I had lots of trouble with the third boss. I had to inchworm my way through it (shoot, save, shoot, save, shoot, save) until he finally died.

I've never liked boss fights in any games, though I suffer through them (else I'd never play many games at all).
 
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20. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 16:58 briktal
 
coldcut wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 16:09:
I was kinda scared of the first boss fight because I read about it beforehand. And indeed, it ended my five hours or so gaming session after about 20-30 tries and dying very fast in frustratrion.

But the boss fights are ridiculously easy. With typhoon, they are even more easy. There's just some things you need to know about each boss. All bosses can be stunned with the stun gun, which helps a lot.

For the first boss, you stun him and then run around throwing every barrel at your disposal at him, and he will go down.
The second boss gets stunned and just gunned down or killed with the help of the generators at the side. Also, this is pretty much the only occasion where the Track'n'mark aug is useful, because you know exactly where she is when she is stealthed. She can easily go down in a few seconds.
The last boss requires some more shooting and hiding behind columns. But he also can be killed in a few seconds with a takedown if you time it right (you need to takedown him right after he jumps over the wall and I think it must be while he is in midair or he will counter... it's on YouTube somewhere

I didn't even move or take damage while fighting the third boss.
 
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19. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 16:09 coldcut
 
I was kinda scared of the first boss fight because I read about it beforehand. And indeed, it ended my five hours or so gaming session after about 20-30 tries and dying very fast in frustratrion.

But the boss fights are ridiculously easy. With typhoon, they are even more easy. There's just some things you need to know about each boss. All bosses can be stunned with the stun gun, which helps a lot.

For the first boss, you stun him and then run around throwing every barrel at your disposal at him, and he will go down.
The second boss gets stunned and just gunned down or killed with the help of the generators at the side. Also, this is pretty much the only occasion where the Track'n'mark aug is useful, because you know exactly where she is when she is stealthed. She can easily go down in a few seconds.
The last boss requires some more shooting and hiding behind columns. But he also can be killed in a few seconds with a takedown if you time it right (you need to takedown him right after he jumps over the wall and I think it must be while he is in midair or he will counter... it's on YouTube somewhere
 
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18. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 16:00 PropheT
 
Overon wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 15:00:
Some people still don't get it. Confronting the people that killed all those employees of Sariff Industries is not the problem (the Boss fight is no the issue). The fact that you have KILL the boss is the problem.

Why wouldn't Adam kill them? They tore him apart, killed his girlfriend and a bunch of other people, and are apparently coming back for more. Stealth and pacifism is a gameplay mechanic, not a story mechanic, especially for a guy like Adam who's decked out with military grade combat hardware and a chip on his shoulder. Stealthing around and not killing anyone isn't something he's doing because he's some kind of pacifist monk.

 
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17. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 15:40 nin
 
I'm not against the concept of boss fights - they don't bug me like they do some here. But I like it when I know they're coming, I have time to prepare, select my weapon, scope out the layout and cover, possible weapons, ammo stores, etc.

I'd agree with that.

 
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16. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 15:34 Ratty
 
The thing I hate hate hate about some games is when each boss fight is preceded by a cinematic cutscene after which you are plopped down right in front of said boss. I'm royally annoyed in any game I've ever seen that in. HR made it even worse because of the one second or so delay you're frozen in place, unable to move while the boss charges right at you. Turning off VSync made the delay more tolerable but it's still there even post patch.

I'm not against the concept of boss fights - they don't bug me like they do some here. But I like it when I know they're coming, I have time to prepare, select my weapon, scope out the layout and cover, possible weapons, ammo stores, etc. Doom 3 annoyed me by the long, loving, almost caressful camera shots of each new monster when it made its first appearance - id wanted to make sure we appreciated the gorgeously detailed texture mapping on each of their creations I'm sure - before plopping you down right in front of them. Such an immersion breaker. How many here actually reached the bosses on their first playthrough, without knowing going through such and such door would trigger them, and defeated them without reloading?

Why oh why they decided to use this crappy cinematic throwback for the boss battles I'll never understand. And somebody HAD to have noticed the frozen-in-place problem sometime during development.
 
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15. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 15:25 merc248
 
It's definitely like a sauce.  
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14. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 15:15 Verno
 
Overon wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 15:00:
Some people still don't get it. Confronting the people that killed all those employees of Sariff Industries is not the problem (the Boss fight is no the issue). The fact that you have KILL the boss is the problem. You can go throughout the entire game without killing anyone, but you have to KILL the boss. It's a terrible design decision that shows a schziphrenic design which is well explained by the fact that it was designed by another company.

Didn't it occur to anyone that the non lethal option and then only the lethal option for the boss fights, did not go well together? Poor management of the project, the two things don't fit well.

I don't know, given that there is storyline treatment (voice acting, writing and even CGI) of the after-effects of the battles, I think there's some merit to the theory that they were written to be confrontational and lethal in nature. Should have they done it that way? Well I think we can all agree that choice is better than none but saying that it was tacked on by another company doesn't seem honest to me. Another company did the design work but it was all clearly story boarded into the game itself.
 
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13. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 15:00 Overon
 
Some people still don't get it. Confronting the people that killed all those employees of Sariff Industries is not the problem (the Boss fight is no the issue). The fact that you have KILL the boss is the problem. You can go throughout the entire game without killing anyone, but you have to KILL the boss. It's a terrible design decision that shows a schziphrenic design which is well explained by the fact that it was designed by another company.

Didn't it occur to anyone that the non lethal option and then only the lethal option for the boss fights, did not go well together? Poor management of the project, the two things don't fit well.
 
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12. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 14:55 Parias
 
That's exactly it - I really have to wonder who they had for play-testers. Were they just random people they dragged off the street or did they bother engaging and soliciting the feedback of people who had actually played the original game before?  
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11. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 14:53 foolschaos
 
I'm betting it's probably Gunther Hermann from the first game. According to the books, Gunther was a member of the Tyrants, the bosses from Deus Ex:HR. Since he is in the first game, you wouldnt be allowed to kill him in this game, and it would be a nice gesture to fans of the first game.  
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10. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 14:41 Cutter
 
So were those testers console players or PC gamers because I can't imagine any PC gamer who loved the original, and that style of gaming, would find the boss fights entertaining.

As for the first boss, he's not hard to defeat even if you're sneaky/hacky and not using typhoon. Just pick up a gas canister and throw it at him, when he's stunned through the exploding barrels at him. You just need to rinse and repeat once or two times and that's it. You can bring him down without so much as firing a single shot or having to melee him at all. The other 2 bosses do require weaps and/or typhoon though.
 
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9. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 14:19 nin
 
Creston wrote on Sep 23, 2011, 13:52:
RPS: Should we expect another Deus Ex game from your studio?

Dugas: I don’t know. I wish were able to do another one. I hope we are going to make another one. But that’s pretty much it for now.

Yes, so do we. We hope you will make another one too. Please? I will pre-order two copies RIGHT NOW if you tell me you will make another one. No...? Okay, I will mail you a hundred dollar check if you say you will make another one!

PLEEEAASSEEEE.

Creston


No kidding. I'd preorder right now, if it's the same team.

This pretty much sums it up: http://thepigskindoctors.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/fry-take-my-money.jpg

And yeah, if you don't like the boss battles, typhoon and move on. Easy.


 
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8. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 14:11 Fion
 
On the subject of the boss battles. Maybe in the next DLC they'll revamp them. Who knows. Frankly the publisher should have known better to do them out of house, especially without filling in the team that made them on what Deus Ex even is. I was blown away that they did these boss battles and had never even heard of Deus Ex.

On topic, I'm really looking forward to this and future DLC. The game is so damn good (besides the boss battles, and for those who never got past them, I recommend you try, it's worth it!) It does devolve toward the end into a more pure combat focused game, but it's true of a great many games in this genre.
 
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7. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 14:10 Bhruic
 
It's interesting, because someone playing a game like that in "testmode" would, imo, react to it differently than someone playing it for fun. Which would make it unsurprising that they'd have different reactions. But at the same time, they said their playtesting was correct everywhere else... Which isn't what I'd expect.  
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6. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution DLC and Boss Battles Sep 23, 2011, 14:09 briktal
 
The playtesters internally gave us a lot of good feedback for the game, and on the bosses they felt that the fights were entertaining and making you use what you had learned.

The problem is, if you went stealth/non-lethal, "what you had learned" was almost completely useless against the bosses. I still need to finish up the game but so far in this playthrough I've fired more shots in the boss fights than in the rest of the game, and the vast majority of those were for sidequests.
 
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