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Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced

This trailer features Paul Kruszewski, president of Grip Entertainment, who explains that his company created the boss battles in Deus Ex: Human Revolution. He describes the challenges they were faced with in creating these confrontations for the game, while admitting that as a "shooter guy," he was not very familiar with the Deus Ex franchise before undertaking the project. One of the often heard criticisms of Eidos Montreal's well-received action/RPG prequel was how the boss encounters seemed a little out of place compared with the rest of the game, and this provides an explanation for why that would be. Thanks Edge Magazine.

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71. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 22, 2011, 09:44 Verno
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 21, 2011, 20:29:
How is the bot ai?

I haven't touched the campaign stuff, I only play MP.
 
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70. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 20:29 eRe4s3r
 
How is the bot ai?  
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69. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 16:32 Verno
 
It's pretty solid so far but unfortunately I'm not devoting as much time to it as I should. It has quite a learning curve compared to say Call of Duty but it's a much deeper and more rewarding experience. I'm a tad disappointed in the graphics but they're serviceable enough.  
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68. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 16:17 ^Drag0n^
 
Agreed. Hey, how is Red Orchestra, BTW?  
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67. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 16:12 Verno
 
I don't know why he said that anyway, no one is calling him a jerk or something. It's just exasperating, go play the game and then you can reasonably discuss it with people who have done so instead of making vague accusations about people being fanboys.  
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66. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 16:08 ^Drag0n^
 
lasersquad wrote on Sep 21, 2011, 15:27:
But nevermind, I won`t drag this on, in fact I won`t bother y`all furthermore at all.

It's funny that people that say this....always come back.

^D^
 
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65. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 16:03 Verno
 
One think I can agree on is that indeed this is splitting hair/going in circles at the moment. It sort of goes back to my original point about how some people want to love this title so much that they are prepared to ignore/excuse some fundamental flaws.

Your original point makes no more sense than anything you've been saying. You haven't even played the game you are criticizing, it is the height of absurdity. You literally cannot understand what people have been patiently explaining for awhile now. Put in terms you used, you want something to criticize so much that you are prepared to ignore/excuse logic and reason.

We're all for reasonable discussion but this has just been getting silly. People are not making excuses for anything, there is no need because it was taken into account during the design process and enjoyable alternatives were provided. It's like complaining about the magic system in Oblivion when you haven't played the game, don't like magic to begin with and continually ignore the other methods of playing.

You know, given what was in the article, it really does explain why the boss fights were shooter-centric versus fitting better into the gameplay mechanic of the rest of the game. It's definitely something I'd bring up at the project closure meeting under "lessons learned--design shortcomings."

Oh agreed. I think it's a testament to how great a job that they did with the game that people were so quick to point out how out of place and poorly executed the boss fights were.
 
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64. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 16:00 ^Drag0n^
 
Verno wrote on Sep 21, 2011, 15:23:
Considering the team played through both DX games before even starting with DX:HR I think its safe to say they take the original into account when working on sequels. Next time you load up a game and see 2+ logos in the introduction then welcome to outsourcing. It's done in everything from MP design to writing to sound and texture design. Should they have outsourced this particular aspect of the game? Probably not but they were a bit busy creating the other 40+ hours of content so it's forgivable to any reasonable person.

You know, given what was in the article, it really does explain why the boss fights were shooter-centric versus fitting better into the gameplay mechanic of the rest of the game. It's definitely something I'd bring up at the project closure meeting under "lessons learned--design shortcomings."

^D^
 
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63. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 15:27 lasersquad
 
^Drag0n^ wrote on Sep 21, 2011, 14:21:
Your panning of the game without having played it is like criticizing food you've never eaten.

(yawn)

lasersquad wrote on Sep 21, 2011, 08:27:
Dades wrote on Sep 20, 2011, 16:13:
Maybe you should try playing it and see if you might enjoy it before panning it. [...]

If you actually read the thread you`d see that I`m not "panning it" - but complaining about few design decisions while recognising it is still a good game

Thanx for contributing, but next time best stick to that popcorn, buddy. And hold that thought when in the future you are rant`n ravin about some nonexistent title.

@Verno

One think I can agree on is that indeed this is splitting hair/going in circles at the moment. It sort of goes back to my original point about how some people want to love this title so much that they are prepared to ignore/excuse some fundamental flaws.

But nevermind, I won`t drag this on, in fact I won`t bother y`all furthermore at all.

This comment was edited on Sep 21, 2011, 15:49.
 
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62. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 15:23 Verno
 
Hehe that`s quite some mental acrobatics, and all that just to avoid agreeing with some pesky noob. So if I choose not to use cover system I`m not avoiding important gameplay element? And if it isn`t adding or detracting from game then wouldn`t you say it was tacked on to please console crowd? (rhetorical question mate)

Alright at this point I just think you're being immature and splitting hairs for the sake of doing so. I have no idea why the presence of certain optional features bothers you so much but they do not significantly impact gameplay unless you choose to use them. As in if they are game ruining heresy to you then it's ok because the game is 100% playable without them. Few games are frankly as accommodating of gameplay style choices as DX, I don't know how anyone can possibly argue that as a negative. Whether they are included to accommodate your mother or Xbox playing brother is frankly besides the point which is that both methods are taken into account in the design process and the game is enjoyably played either way.

It`s a speculation based on tidbits of info, current trends in videogaming and DE itself. As good as any other on this site or elsewhere on the net. This team has already "proven" that they can`t even handle the whole game themselves and didn`t they just clutter DE:HR with unnecessary crowd pleasers?

You haven't played Deus Ex yourself (paints this whole discussion in a very amusing light by the way) so we'll remove that one. It's speculation based on nothing concrete, there is practically no information about the game at all. Considering the team played through both DX games before even starting with DX:HR I think its safe to say they take the original into account when working on sequels. Next time you load up a game and see 2+ logos in the introduction then welcome to outsourcing. It's done in everything from MP design to writing to sound and texture design. Should they have outsourced this particular aspect of the game? Probably not but they were a bit busy creating the other 40+ hours of content so it's forgivable to any reasonable person.
 
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61. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 14:21 ^Drag0n^
 
lasersquad wrote on Sep 21, 2011, 13:55:
^Drag0n^ wrote on Sep 21, 2011, 08:53:
I think you're missing their point.

They are saying your opinion of Dues Ex gameplay lacks credibility because you haven't even played the game.

I think you missed the point above in which I explain what I think of this old trope. If it`s still unclear though than please go and have look at any thread where people seem to make their minds up about a game before it was even released or reviewed. Like Rage for example.

What you think of this old "trope," doesn't make the comment any less valid. Your panning of the game without having played it is like criticizing food you've never eaten. Whether other people engage in the same practice is irrelevant, nor does it make your untested criticism any more valid.

^D^

 
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60. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 13:55 lasersquad
 
^Drag0n^ wrote on Sep 21, 2011, 08:53:
I think you're missing their point.

They are saying your opinion of Dues Ex gameplay lacks credibility because you haven't even played the game.

I think you missed the point above in which I explain what I think of this old trope. If it`s still unclear though than please go and have look at any thread where people seem to make their minds up about a game before it was even released or reviewed. Like Rage for example.

Verno wrote:
You aren't sacrificing any gameplay elements to avoid using third person in DX:HR. The third person cover system and takedowns are mostly considerations for the console market that do not add nor detract from the game in any way.

Hehe that`s quite some mental acrobatics, and all that just to avoid agreeing with some pesky noob. So if I choose not to use cover system I`m not avoiding important gameplay element? And if it isn`t adding or detracting from game then wouldn`t you say it was tacked on to please console crowd? (rhetorical question mate)

We have no idea what Thief 4 is right now it's all speculation based on nothing. Given their treatment of the DX IP, I can't see this team doing anything but producing an excellent Thief game.

It`s a speculation based on tidbits of info, current trends in videogaming and DE itself. As good as any other on this site or elsewhere on the net. This team has already "proven" that they can`t even handle the whole game themselves and didn`t they just clutter DE:HR with unnecessary crowd pleasers? Not in my Thief, thank you, but if you fancy playing Assassin Garret, all the best.

As for "why are we still discussing it" - don`t answer/ignore my posts and this discussion will die a natural death. Simple, really.
 
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59. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 12:43 ^Drag0n^
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 21, 2011, 10:02:
I mean, do you guys really think you're Adam? Are you that immersed?

Well that certainly explains why my Icarus implant didn't work yesterday when I jumped off the roof of my building at work...

^D^

(Yes, kidding...)
 
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58. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 10:02 Beamer
 
Third-person cover systems not only break the player's immersion by completely changing your perspective but they completely undermine the whole risk vs reward balance of cover. When you take cover in first-person, you sacrifice awareness for protection. When you take cover in third-person, you sacrifice nothing and gain everything. Without this balance, taking cover becomes shallow and thoughtless. You have no reason not to do it and that makes it boring.

I agree that being able to look behind yourself in third person cover makes it too easy, but I still disagree on the immersion element.

I mean, do you guys really think you're Adam? Are you that immersed?
No video game is as immersive as a book for me. None are terribly immersive, period. I'm always well aware I'm playing a game, and while I get sucked into the action having the POV change by my control doesn't hinder that much. No more than using the cameras in DN3D did.
 
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57. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 08:54 Verno
 
DE:HR way would be a no-no for me because I can`t imagine sacrificing any gameplay elements to avoid 3rd person in this particular title

You aren't sacrificing any gameplay elements to avoid using third person in DX:HR. The third person cover system and takedowns are mostly considerations for the console market that do not add nor detract from the game in any way. I have no idea why we're still even discussing this, go play the game or..don't. We have no idea what Thief 4 is right now it's all speculation based on nothing. Given their treatment of the DX IP, I can't see this team doing anything but producing an excellent Thief game.
 
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56. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 08:53 ^Drag0n^
 
I think you're missing their point.

They are saying your opinion of Dues Ex gameplay lacks credibility because you haven't even played the game.

^D^
 
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55. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 08:27 lasersquad
 
Dades wrote on Sep 20, 2011, 16:13:
Maybe you should try playing it and see if you might enjoy it before panning it. [...] Getting all fired up about features you aren't even forced to use just makes you look uninformed.

If you actually read the thread you`d see that I`m not "panning it" - but complaining about few design decisions while recognising it is still a good game. Also the fact that you don`t need to use these features speaks for itself.

eRe4s3r wrote:
"...the game is too static, the world doesn't evolve, doesn't change dynamically enough and theres way too few people around in the cities..."

This is what worries me the most. Consider this: 10 years before original DE there wasn`t even Wolfenstein. Progress? I think so. 10 years after, we get a sequel...but not much changed really. Where are these living & breathing worlds we imagined would come in the future? Yeah, so consoles are holding things back and all, but even so - I`d rather blame the whole cannot-take-any-risks mindset of today.

Jerykk wrote:
One of the reasons I loved Thief is that you often felt like the hunted, not the hunter

Pretty much...and if you played on highest difficulty it actually became the rule. A thing of beauty.

However, games these days are all about accessibility and that's why I'm pretty sure that Thief 4 will have some sort of third-person camera, just like DX:HR did

I wouldn`t mind at all if it had optional 3rd person camera like Thief 3 or Oblivion. If people wanna play this way, fine. DE:HR way would be a no-no for me because I can`t imagine sacrificing any gameplay elements to avoid 3rd person in this particular title.

Unfortunately it`s probably all a moot point, because if rumours are to be believed they`re going for Assassin Creed model - totally 3rd person with parkour and such. Oh, well.
 
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54. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 21, 2011, 01:09 Jerykk
 
I didn`t really mean cover system - why would you even need one in Thief anyway? - but lots of grumblings & rumours that it`s gonna be strictly 3rd person. That would kill this title instantly for me.

The last Thief game could be played entirely in third-person, unfortunately. When it comes to sneaking around, third-person is much easier (and thus accessible) because you can hide without losing peripheral awareness. One of the reasons I loved Thief is that you often felt like the hunted, not the hunter. You weren't trying to stalk your enemies, you were trying to evade them. Staying in first-person made this all the more intense. However, games these days are all about accessibility and that's why I'm pretty sure that Thief 4 will have some sort of third-person camera, just like DX:HR did.

Is third person cover really that much more immersion-breaking than cut-scenes?
Than picking a line of dialogue from a choice of several?
From weird lockpicking/hacking mini-games?

Choosing dialogue from a dialogue tree is the only practical way to handle interactive dialogue in a videogame. Ideally, you could type/say whatever you want and the AI would understand and respond accordingly but that's not going to happen for a very long time. As for locking/hacking minigames, those are just a feeble attempt to add gameplay where it doesn't really need to exist. Minigames never remain fun after you've done them 50 times and things like hacking/lockpicking tend to be performed on a frequent basis.

Third-person cover systems not only break the player's immersion by completely changing your perspective but they completely undermine the whole risk vs reward balance of cover. When you take cover in first-person, you sacrifice awareness for protection. When you take cover in third-person, you sacrifice nothing and gain everything. Without this balance, taking cover becomes shallow and thoughtless. You have no reason not to do it and that makes it boring.
 
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53. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 20, 2011, 18:04 eRe4s3r
 
I quite agree with you somehow.. the game never quite pulls you in fully.. its only talking about events for example, instead of showing them, and involving you (the player) in them.. those demonstrations.. those harvesters who harvest things.. the "glitches" everything is so detached... and i think the glitches should have been part of the game WAY earlier (and random, emergent gameplay)

Only thing i can think of is that the game is too static, the world doesn't evolve, doesn't change dynamically enough and theres way too few people around in the cities. Though they all have something to say, i'd rather there'd be some crowds, riots, police crackdowns that we could see and experience...
 
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52. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Boss Battles Were Outsourced Sep 20, 2011, 17:22 Eldaron Imotholin
 
Strangely, no matter how awesome the game was and though I had a fantastic experience playing it... it's a forgettable one.

Maybe it's because the game was too stretched out and because of this anti-climactic ending.
 
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