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Dead Island "Private Joke" Goes Public

One of the consequences of accidentally releasing a developer's build of the game is the possibility of revealing removed content or inside jokes, as illustrated by a report on Kotaku about a discovery within the build of Dead Island inadvertently released on Steam (thanks nin). Word is a hunt through the game's code reveals the Gender Wars skill that allows Purna to deal extra damage to male opponents was originally called "Feminist Whore." This is confirmed with Techland, who indicate that while there weren't necessarily dire consequences for releasing a debug build instead of the final build of the game, there may be for this incident, as they say: "The person responsible for this unfortunate situation will face professional consequences for violating the professional standards and beliefs Techland stands for." Deep Silver also disavows this, saying: "These unfortunate actions were of one individual at developer company Techland and do not in any way represent the views of publishing company Deep Silver." Here's more of the response from Blazej Krakowiak, Techland International Brand Manager:

The line in question was something a programmer considered a private joke. The skill naturally has a completely different in-game name and the script reference was also changed. What is left is a part of an obscure debug function. This is merely an explanation but by no means an excuse. In the end that code was made a part of the product and signed with our company name. We deeply regret that fact and we apologize to all our customers or anyone who might have been offended by that inappropriate expression.

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143 Replies. 8 pages. Viewing page 1.
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143. Re: Dead Island "Private Joke" Goes Public Sep 14, 2011, 14:16 Lobster
 
Women are belittled, that's bad, feminism is good, and whether a particular feminist is or is not a whore has more to do with their personality and choices than their feminism.

This looks like someone being unprofessional and stupid rather than a sign of a conspiracy to keep women down. Mountains, molehills, etc.
 
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142. Re: Dead Island Sep 10, 2011, 18:35 space captain
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 8, 2011, 15:35:
If all the black characters couldn't read skill books we should all get over it, it's a joke?

haha negroes cant read
 
Go forth, and kill!
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141. Re: Dead Island Sep 10, 2011, 14:08 Slashman
 
Draugr wrote on Sep 10, 2011, 02:29:

We already have real evidence about women being belittled in gaming culture (this article, and the comments it generates is evidence of it, though it's obvious we disagree there)
But, I can give you examples of people that feel this way, if you'd like. I certainly didn't make them up.

And again, I'm not saying that stuff like that couldn't happen. My point is that it is not indicative of the entire gaming community...most of whom probably will never become vocal on this subject.

Those 3 articles are no less anecdotal than any of my own experiences. The only difference is that I never blogged about, or posted on a website about, how great the events I attended were when it came to encouraging women to take part.

As for game content, you still have the monumental task of making game developers and publishers renounce the notion that sex sells. And the only way that will truly happen is if gamers in large numbers boycott products with offensive content in them. The likelihood of that happening is pretty darn slim because most gamers just want to get on with playing games...period.

As I said...good luck in your crusade.
 
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140. Re: Dead Island Sep 10, 2011, 03:37 Draugr
 
^Drag0n^ wrote on Sep 10, 2011, 02:48:
If ever there were an argument to lock threads...

Fine, I'll stop hogging the thread
 
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139. Re: Dead Island "Private Joke" Goes Public Sep 10, 2011, 02:48 ^Drag0n^
 
If ever there were an argument to lock threads...  
Avatar 55075
 
"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
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138. Re: Dead Island Sep 10, 2011, 02:29 Draugr
 
Slashman wrote on Sep 10, 2011, 00:41:

I'm glad we both agree that you have no more compelling evidence than I do. Which makes your crusade here all the more odd, because neither you nor I can find the droves of women who feel like they are being belittled and pushed out of gaming and are just waiting for the industry and community to change so they can take part.

We already have real evidence about women being belittled in gaming culture (this article, and the comments it generates is evidence of it, though it's obvious we disagree there)
But, I can give you examples of people that feel this way, if you'd like. I certainly didn't make them up.
http://gomakemeasandwich.wordpress.com/ is a great example.
like most blogs, this blog links up to other blogs of similar interest or discussion, on top of the commentors that frequent that blog itself, which (like all blogs, generally) are there because they like what the person is saying.

http://theworldofmaxator.blogspot.com/2010/06/sexism-in-gaming.html Not the focus of the blog, but the post in particular applies

VG247 has an editorial on this very subject that I'm talking about, as well:
http://www.vg247.com/2011/09/09/dead-islands-feminist-whore-the-tip-of-the-iceberg/

This comment was edited on Sep 10, 2011, 02:54.
 
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137. Re: Dead Island Sep 10, 2011, 01:31 saluk
 
Derp.

1. programmer didn't call all women whores, he named a perk after them, and I suppose called this specific character one.
2. Poor taste? Most definitely. Let me tell you, I have left some things in code that were in poor taste. Not this bad, but still. In no way is that me making any kind of statement to the world. Usually I delete it before too long, but I guess in a codebase this big its easy to miss. You make jokes, because its you and a lonely screen, and a mountain of problems to solve.
3. It wasn't meant to get out. The dev release was bad enough, but then we have hackers peeking where they aren't necessarily supposed to look.
4. Good for the PR to at least cover it up.

Honestly, the gender wars perk is already a bit un pc, so giving it an un pc code name is not that odd.


If you want to complain about inequality in games, there are plenty of places to start that matter a whole lot more than some naughty words left in the source code by an incompetent dev. Like, say, the core subject matter of the majority of games; or the strong misogynistic undertones in most game characters (even the female ones).


TL;DR lets worry more about the offensive things in games meant for the public, and less about some comments left in code not meant for anyone to see
 
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136. Re: Dead Island Sep 10, 2011, 00:41 Slashman
 
Draugr wrote on Sep 10, 2011, 00:07:

Once again, I'm talking about the culture, not any particular genre or game. I'm not talking about what games women do or don't like, that's up to the individual to decide.
My example, and this thread were on right here, are perfect examples of what I'm talking about.

-I'm not saying companies need to spend any money on not being offensive, its free. I don't care if they worry about making sure women want to play an action game, and Im not saying they should cater to everyone. That's not what I'm talking about at all.

Well I'm kind of trying to figure out what it is you are talking about.

You keep bringing up this 'culture' talk like there is some kind of walled fortress of manliness which is trying to push women out of gaming. The actual truth, IMO, is far from that. In fact, it wasn't so long ago that women would actively scorn hanging around guys who were gaming 'nerds' or 'geeks'. And I'm wondering if you're seriously telling me that in all your time as a gamer(I'm assuming it's a significant amount of time anyway...) that you haven't seen women roll their eyes when the discussion turns toward hardcore FPS games or RTS games. Because anecdotal or not...I've seen it time and again from wives, girlfriends and other women who just don't want to be a part of something that revolves around aggression as a primary objective. Men just generally have a different mindset.

The gaming culture didn't come into existence with part of its agenda being to objectify or offend women.

"Some ideal game which would not only have to be inoffensive to women, but attract them as well. While maintaining all the things that men like about FPSes or action/RPGs etc"
This is kind of funny, because you're implying that games must be offensive to women for men to enjoy it. Or that making a game that appeals to both sexes is impossible. I'm fairly sure you didn't mean it that way, and there are games that certainly prove the contrary.

I'm not sure where you see that implication...but if you do see it, you're reaching really far. I said that the game would not ONLY have to be inoffensive to women...but offer something to attract them as well. I made that statement because I can list a bunch of good games that don't have offensive content to women that STILL don't get played by them, while being played by men. Something that you keep sidestepping on your crusade to paint a picture of some big, sweaty male-only social club that constantly steps on women and pushes them out.

And again, anecdotal evidence is not worth much. I mean, most of the women I know who play games are more into RPGs and DOTA, but that doesn't mean they are all like that.

I'm glad we both agree that you have no more compelling evidence than I do. Which makes your crusade here all the more odd, because neither you nor I can find the droves of women who feel like they are being belittled and pushed out of gaming and are just waiting for the industry and community to change so they can take part.
 
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135. Re: Dead Island Sep 10, 2011, 00:07 Draugr
 
Slashman wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 22:12:
@Draugr

Once again, I'm talking about the culture, not any particular genre or game. I'm not talking about what games women do or don't like, that's up to the individual to decide.
My example, and this thread were on right here, are perfect examples of what I'm talking about.

I'm not saying companies need to spend any money on not being offensive, its free. I don't care if they worry about making sure women want to play an action game, and Im not saying they should cater to everyone. That's not what I'm talking about at all.

"Some ideal game which would not only have to be inoffensive to women, but attract them as well. While maintaining all the things that men like about FPSes or action/RPGs etc"
This is kind of funny, because you're implying that games must be offensive to women for men to enjoy it. Or that making a game that appeals to both sexes is impossible. I'm fairly sure you didn't mean it that way, and there are games that certainly prove the contrary. It's not like when you go to a site like girlgamer the only thing they talk about is The Sims and MMO's

And again, anecdotal evidence is not worth much. I mean, most of the women I know who play games are more into RPGs and DOTA, but that doesn't mean they are all like that.

This comment was edited on Sep 10, 2011, 00:25.
 
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134. Re: Dead Island Sep 9, 2011, 22:12 Slashman
 
@Draugr

My apologies for the 'not making sense' thing. At the time I was looking at a single part of your statement and not the argument on the whole...I just didn't write it.

In any case, the second paragraph of your post is exactly what the problem is here. Games are a business. And there is no company that is going to spend an exorbitant amount of money to develop some ideal game which would not only have to be inoffensive to women, but attract them as well. While maintaining all the things that men like about FPSes or action/RPGs etc. which would hinge on the slight possibility that there is a large chunk of women who would otherwise be all over traditional action games if they were more 'sensitive' to women.

What most sensible companies do is simply make games that women want to play. Last I checked, the Sims wasn't doing too badly. Almost every woman I come across who talks about games wants to play it.

There isn't necessarily a shortage of games for women to play. There is simply a shortage of game types with content that both attracts women and men equally. I'm not sure that's even a bad thing.

The other stuff you are talking about, people not allowing women into gaming events is something I have never seen and would be hard pressed to say is common. That it happened is ridiculous...but I can't use it as an example of the entire gaming community.

I've run LAN parties and competitions where I live for a number of years before work started to cut into my time too much. And it has always been the opposite of what you're illustrating. Most guys can't convince their girlfriends to spend time gaming with them or attend a LAN party for an extended period of time. And for the most part, we weren't playing anything you could consider sexist. Battlefield, Quake, Unreal, Warcraft, Starcraft, Call of Duty, Command and Conquer: Generals...

Its fine to point out where a game has crossed the line, but for the most part, I'd say that sexism is way down the list of what stops women from liking action games.
 
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133. Re: Dead Island Sep 9, 2011, 21:15 Draugr
 
Slashman wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 20:13:
Draugr wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 19:14:
Slashman wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 18:47:
Draugr wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 18:22:
Slashman wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 15:15:
I just wanted to point out something regarding a comment made earlier about women not playing games because they contain sexist material.

That is the LAST reason most women don't play the same types of games men do. For the most part...women don't get off on playing violent games.

They're mostly not interested in scoring headshots and gibbing things. They're not that into explosions and mass destruction. They just don't enjoy the same type of gaming.

I did know one girl who could clean my sorry butt up in Unreal and Quake...but even then...she mostly played because her boyfriend was a serious gamer.

Women will gladly play the Sims or WoW and other MMOs...but no matter how PC you make something like Half-Life 2, most women will just yawn when they see it(because the object is to shoot stuff).

Sure, let's just pretend gender roles in society doesn't influence any of that.

And while we're doing that...can we pretend that women and men are absolutely the same on every level and think in the same fundamental ways?

And as long as we're on a roll doing that...lets pretend that there are no examples, even in nature, where one sex of a species is naturally more aggressive than the other. You know...because sexism and gender stereotyping is prevalent in the animal kingdom and we need some reforms there as well. Friggin' hippos and buffaloes...

Now we're pretending that we are intellectually identical to buffaloes and visa versa?

Rolling with your example though, there are tons of examples in the animal kingdom of Males and Females not having the roles we(society) traditionally place on the sexes. For example look at seahorses, or look at how roles of penguins are shared. There is no evolutionary rule/recipe for gender roles. I only bring these examples up since you did. Stack that on top of animals just not having the same mental capacities we do and I don't find it to be relevant to the conversation.

That has everything to do with evolution though, and evolution and culture aren't the same thing.

Here is why your argument makes no sense:

You are suggesting that women don't like aggressive video games because they are full of sexism. I've shown women several games where sexism wasn't present but(and I know this is hard for you to accept), they just aren't interested.

They WILL play other games. Just not the type of games men tend to gravitate toward. You have it stuck in your head that this is due to pressure from society instead of the fact that there are differences in the things that they prefer versus the stuff that men like in games.

That's not to say that there aren't women who like the more violent genres that men usually stick to...but the reason for there not being more of them isn't because of societal pressure.

Hell I had a girlfriend who actually asked me for some suggestions on games...but then quickly followed it up with: 'But none of that violent shit you play...' I think she ended up getting the 'You don't know Jack' series.

She was as feminist as they come(maybe even to the extreme). That didn't make her like Unreal or Battlefield any more than the next girl.

I can pull out anecdotes to prove my point too, which all of your evidence is. That's why anecdotal evidence isn't acceptable.
I provided a Link to a page about how they refused to let women attend a BF3 event, earlier in this thread. So clearly, these people exist. Let's not pretend they aren't there just because you don't have enough friends like that for you to believe it.

I never meant to imply there is some sort of floodgate waiting to burst open once games start being more sensitive towards women, but to pretend that culture doesn't influence these things, I consider silly. Once again I point at the last 100 years as my example of how gender roles are influenced by culture/society. Would more women play them though? Probably.

Getting back to your opening post, though.
Is the implication it's okay to be as sexist as they want because you think there aren't enough women interested in the game? We should only worry about sexism in games that are marketed more towards both genders, or towards women?
I'm not saying that all people should be enjoying all games, my real argument is that gaming culture has some sexism rooted in it that should be addressed, as there are women that enjoy games as well. - I understand that not every game will appeal to every person. Man or Woman.
While I'd argue Gender roles in society certainly would influence this, I don't mean that (for example,) in a controlled environment devoid of all external influence, all men and women will start to enjoy BF3, which you seem to to took my argument as, Probably my fault for not being clear about the stance I am advocating.

Finally, I don't see where my arguments doesn't make sense. I can understand you not agreeing with them. But I'd say it is sound.

This comment was edited on Sep 9, 2011, 21:38.
 
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132. Re: Dead Island Sep 9, 2011, 20:13 Slashman
 
Draugr wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 19:14:
Slashman wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 18:47:
Draugr wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 18:22:
Slashman wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 15:15:
I just wanted to point out something regarding a comment made earlier about women not playing games because they contain sexist material.

That is the LAST reason most women don't play the same types of games men do. For the most part...women don't get off on playing violent games.

They're mostly not interested in scoring headshots and gibbing things. They're not that into explosions and mass destruction. They just don't enjoy the same type of gaming.

I did know one girl who could clean my sorry butt up in Unreal and Quake...but even then...she mostly played because her boyfriend was a serious gamer.

Women will gladly play the Sims or WoW and other MMOs...but no matter how PC you make something like Half-Life 2, most women will just yawn when they see it(because the object is to shoot stuff).

Sure, let's just pretend gender roles in society doesn't influence any of that.

And while we're doing that...can we pretend that women and men are absolutely the same on every level and think in the same fundamental ways?

And as long as we're on a roll doing that...lets pretend that there are no examples, even in nature, where one sex of a species is naturally more aggressive than the other. You know...because sexism and gender stereotyping is prevalent in the animal kingdom and we need some reforms there as well. Friggin' hippos and buffaloes...

Now we're pretending that we are intellectually identical to buffaloes and visa versa?

Rolling with your example though, there are tons of examples in the animal kingdom of Males and Females not having the roles we(society) traditionally place on the sexes. For example look at seahorses, or look at how roles of penguins are shared. There is no evolutionary rule/recipe for gender roles. I only bring these examples up since you did. Stack that on top of animals just not having the same mental capacities we do and I don't find it to be relevant to the conversation.

That has everything to do with evolution though, and evolution and culture aren't the same thing.

Here is why your argument makes no sense:

You are suggesting that women don't like aggressive video games because they are full of sexism. I've shown women several games where sexism wasn't present but(and I know this is hard for you to accept), they just aren't interested.

They WILL play other games. Just not the type of games men tend to gravitate toward. You have it stuck in your head that this is due to pressure from society instead of the fact that there are differences in the things that they prefer versus the stuff that men like in games.

That's not to say that there aren't women who like the more violent genres that men usually stick to...but the reason for there not being more of them isn't because of societal pressure.

Hell I had a girlfriend who actually asked me for some suggestions on games...but then quickly followed it up with: 'But none of that violent shit you play...' I think she ended up getting the 'You don't know Jack' series.

She was as feminist as they come(maybe even to the extreme). That didn't make her like Unreal or Battlefield any more than the next girl.
 
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131. Re: Dead Island Sep 9, 2011, 19:14 Draugr
 
Slashman wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 18:47:
Draugr wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 18:22:
Slashman wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 15:15:
I just wanted to point out something regarding a comment made earlier about women not playing games because they contain sexist material.

That is the LAST reason most women don't play the same types of games men do. For the most part...women don't get off on playing violent games.

They're mostly not interested in scoring headshots and gibbing things. They're not that into explosions and mass destruction. They just don't enjoy the same type of gaming.

I did know one girl who could clean my sorry butt up in Unreal and Quake...but even then...she mostly played because her boyfriend was a serious gamer.

Women will gladly play the Sims or WoW and other MMOs...but no matter how PC you make something like Half-Life 2, most women will just yawn when they see it(because the object is to shoot stuff).

Sure, let's just pretend gender roles in society doesn't influence any of that.

And while we're doing that...can we pretend that women and men are absolutely the same on every level and think in the same fundamental ways?

And as long as we're on a roll doing that...lets pretend that there are no examples, even in nature, where one sex of a species is naturally more aggressive than the other. You know...because sexism and gender stereotyping is prevalent in the animal kingdom and we need some reforms there as well. Friggin' hippos and buffaloes...

Now we're pretending that we are intellectually identical to buffaloes and visa versa?

Rolling with your example though, there are tons of examples in the animal kingdom of Males and Females not having the roles we(society) traditionally place on the sexes. For example look at seahorses, or look at how roles of penguins are shared. There is no evolutionary rule/recipe for gender roles. I only bring these examples up since you did. Stack that on top of animals just not having the same mental capacities we do and I don't find it to be relevant to the conversation.

That has everything to do with evolution though, and evolution and culture aren't the same thing.
 
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130. Re: Dead Island Sep 9, 2011, 18:47 Slashman
 
Draugr wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 18:22:
Slashman wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 15:15:
I just wanted to point out something regarding a comment made earlier about women not playing games because they contain sexist material.

That is the LAST reason most women don't play the same types of games men do. For the most part...women don't get off on playing violent games.

They're mostly not interested in scoring headshots and gibbing things. They're not that into explosions and mass destruction. They just don't enjoy the same type of gaming.

I did know one girl who could clean my sorry butt up in Unreal and Quake...but even then...she mostly played because her boyfriend was a serious gamer.

Women will gladly play the Sims or WoW and other MMOs...but no matter how PC you make something like Half-Life 2, most women will just yawn when they see it(because the object is to shoot stuff).

Sure, let's just pretend gender roles in society doesn't influence any of that.

And while we're doing that...can we pretend that women and men are absolutely the same on every level and think in the same fundamental ways?

And as long as we're on a roll doing that...lets pretend that there are no examples, even in nature, where one sex of a species is naturally more aggressive than the other. You know...because sexism and gender stereotyping is prevalent in the animal kingdom and we need some reforms there as well. Friggin' hippos and buffaloes...
 
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129. Re: Dead Island Sep 9, 2011, 18:22 Draugr
 
Slashman wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 15:15:
I just wanted to point out something regarding a comment made earlier about women not playing games because they contain sexist material.

That is the LAST reason most women don't play the same types of games men do. For the most part...women don't get off on playing violent games.

They're mostly not interested in scoring headshots and gibbing things. They're not that into explosions and mass destruction. They just don't enjoy the same type of gaming.

I did know one girl who could clean my sorry butt up in Unreal and Quake...but even then...she mostly played because her boyfriend was a serious gamer.

Women will gladly play the Sims or WoW and other MMOs...but no matter how PC you make something like Half-Life 2, most women will just yawn when they see it(because the object is to shoot stuff).

Sure, let's just pretend gender roles in society doesn't influence any of that.
 
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128. Re: Dead Island Sep 9, 2011, 15:15 Slashman
 
I just wanted to point out something regarding a comment made earlier about women not playing games because they contain sexist material.

That is the LAST reason most women don't play the same types of games men do. For the most part...women don't get off on playing violent games.

They're mostly not interested in scoring headshots and gibbing things. They're not that into explosions and mass destruction. They just don't enjoy the same type of gaming.

I did know one girl who could clean my sorry butt up in Unreal and Quake...but even then...she mostly played because her boyfriend was a serious gamer.

Women will gladly play the Sims or WoW and other MMOs...but no matter how PC you make something like Half-Life 2, most women will just yawn when they see it(because the object is to shoot stuff).
 
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127. Re: Dead Island Sep 9, 2011, 12:25 ^Drag0n^
 
After 126 posted comments, I'd just like to comment on one thing...the term used is an oxymoron, meaning it's a term that conflicts with itself. People have been so focussed on the individual words and assumptions on the personal feelings and attitudes of the individual naming the achievement in the internal build, that they've lost the forest in the trees--the words are conflicting, ridiculous, and make no sense when used together.

Seriously.

^D^
 
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"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
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126. Re: Dead Island Sep 9, 2011, 11:42 Prez
 
But not everyone finds it harmless.

Well, again, that's their personal issue, not society's problem. Their inability to cope with perceived affronts to their delicate sensibilities is not mine or anyone else's problem.

The world doesn't change just to suit you. The way I see it - you either grow a pair and learn to deal with that fact or walk around like a spoiled, whiny little crybaby all the time. Wanna guess which one I recommend?
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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125. Re: Dead Island Sep 9, 2011, 10:43 Beamer
 
CommunistHamster wrote on Sep 9, 2011, 10:11:
I think what prez said (about the witch-hunt reaction to harmless jokes now being worse than the actual discrimination) sums my views up quite nicely.


But not everyone finds it harmless.
That's always the issue with inflammatory words when they're stupidly and unnecessarily used, right?
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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124. Re: Dead Island Sep 9, 2011, 10:43 Beamer
 
RollinThundr wrote on Sep 8, 2011, 23:15:
Beamer wrote on Sep 8, 2011, 15:35:
SM0k3 wrote on Sep 8, 2011, 15:28:
What's the big deal, it's a joke.

So if setting a zombie on fire gave you the "Did What We Should Do To All Homos" achievement we should all just get over it, it's a joke?
If all the black characters couldn't read skill books we should all get over it, it's a joke?

Way to over react. You're not one of them bleeding heart liberals are ya Beamer?

Many boards I post on call me a fascist righty. So I'm middle of the road.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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