61 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 3.
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| 21. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play "Our Goal |
Aug 19, 2011, 13:37 |
Cutter |
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Well, looks like I'll be skipping this POS. Thanks Gabe, you douchebag.
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| "Are you crazy? Is that your problem?" - Jack Burton |
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| 20. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 13:34 |
Pankin |
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Beamer wrote on Aug 19, 2011, 12:05:
Putting a speedboat in the America's Cup and it's guaranteed victory, but that doesn't mean those sailing are incompetent morons that shouldn't enjoy what they do.
Good analogy, seriously.
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| 19. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 13:10 |
MajorD |
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Remember the SpaceOrb 360? LOL! I remember when that first came out; a friend of mine purchased it and we were using the tutorial......unsuccesffuly I must add. It went back to Fry's the next day.
KB & M is the only way to fly.....
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| 18. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 13:04 |
Agent.X7 |
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| Heh, Shadowrun was proof positive that m/k beats controller. I was top score in pretty much every game because everyone else was on a console. People used to leave in droves if they found out someone in the game was a PC player. |
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| Seven Star Gaming - Sayre, PA |
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| 17. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 13:03 |
Beamer |
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It does come up and when people argue controllers are better for shooters reality does not factor into the equation.
Those are arguments about preference. I much prefer a controller. Why? Because I much prefer being on a couch in my living room than at the computer in my office. I spend enough time sitting upright in front of a computer at work - I have little interest in doing it at home.
But I've never seen somoene argue that it's superior for control and that a controller-user can beat a mouser. |
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| 16. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 13:00 |
Warskull |
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Beamer wrote on Aug 19, 2011, 12:05:
Again, I've never heard this (though people here keep claiming it comes up) and it's easy enough to dispel by pointing to the issues every company attempting to do cross-platform has had to deal with
It does come up and when people argue controllers are better for shooters reality does not factor into the equation. It usually comes up when a console fanboy is trying to defend their console of choice. Usually the fact that shooters feel more natural and control better on the PC comes up.
It is easy to prove, you can use controllers on the PC. If a controller was the superior option the competitive games would all be using it. However, when the controller arguement is made it is rarely rational.
We'll probably see the same thing, PC players absolutely destroy console players and the groups end up separated. |
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| 15. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 12:56 |
MajorD |
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Beamer wrote on Aug 19, 2011, 12:21:
It typically comes up during PC vs console arguments, I've seen it on this site alone a dozen times.
No it doesn't. No one has ever said that the controller can match mouse and keyboard here. Never.
What's said is that you can have fun with a controller, that consoles work fine without mouse and keyboard, and that mouse and keyboard would completely destroy consoles by ruining balance, as the vast majority of console players cannot use a mouse because they sit at a couch, not a desk.
No one here has ever said that the controller allows control as precise and as quick as the mouse. Not once. It's not an argument you'll really ever hear anywhere. Ever.
Are you absolutely sure? Is that ya final ansa? ;^) 
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| 14. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 12:49 |
PHJF |
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PC games = moddable... console games... not so much.
I hope Valve isn't forgetting that Counter-Strike is a mod. |
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| 13. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play "Our Goal |
Aug 19, 2011, 12:38 |
Dades |
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Microsoft had a crossplatform game with Shadowrun. They had to down-tweak the kb/mouse to compete with console gamers, who also had aim assist. Shadowrun has been shuttered and the website is gone, but they posted about this in their dev blogs. Way back machine might have it still
Yeah, I recall the post mortem you're talking about. There was an interview about this awhile ago that had this whole debate resurface. |
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| 12. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 12:34 |
bhcompy |
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Microsoft had a crossplatform game with Shadowrun. They had to down-tweak the kb/mouse to compete with console gamers, who also had aim assist. Shadowrun has been shuttered and the website is gone, but they posted about this in their dev blogs. Way back machine might have it still
Ultimately, the kb/mouse will always be superior, but not necessarily because of what you think. Analog sticks on controllers have deadzones of 10-15 degrees. Because of this lack of precision, the controllers will never be as accurate as a mouse, which has no deadzone. |
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| 11. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 12:32 |
Dades |
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Beamer wrote on Aug 19, 2011, 12:21:
No one here has ever said that the controller allows control as precise and as quick as the mouse. Not once. It's not an argument you'll really ever hear anywhere. Ever.
No, you are wrong. There are people who say that gamepads can be as good as a comparable mouse and keyboard setup with enough practice. It's typically brought up as a reflex defense against someone proclaiming PC superiority. There are fanboys just as deluded about consoles as there are about PCs.
I don't want to play against console players anyway. I play games to be challenged and console players typically present no more challenge than your average FPS bot. Cross platform play is a pie in the sky idea that has no real benefit to PC or console players other than forum bragging. |
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| 10. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 12:21 |
Beamer |
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It typically comes up during PC vs console arguments, I've seen it on this site alone a dozen times.
No it doesn't. No one has ever said that the controller can match mouse and keyboard here. Never.
What's said is that you can have fun with a controller, that consoles work fine without mouse and keyboard, and that mouse and keyboard would completely destroy consoles by ruining balance, as the vast majority of console players cannot use a mouse because they sit at a couch, not a desk.
No one here has ever said that the controller allows control as precise and as quick as the mouse. Not once. It's not an argument you'll really ever hear anywhere. Ever. |
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| 9. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 12:15 |
Dades |
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Again, I've never heard this (though people here keep claiming it comes up) and it's easy enough to dispel by pointing to the issues every company attempting to do cross-platform has had to deal with.
Of course it's easy to dispel, it's common sense. It typically comes up during PC vs console arguments, I've seen it on this site alone a dozen times.
If console players want to be competitive with each other then they should be asking Valve not to implement cross platform play into this because they will enjoy the results. |
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| 8. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 12:05 |
Beamer |
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Dades wrote on Aug 19, 2011, 11:55:
I've never heard any debate.
It's an oft repeated forum canard that people can become as good with a controller as a mouse and keyboard player. The truth is that people might become good enough to compete against other people using controllers but going up against kb/m users will be disastrous.
Again, I've never heard this (though people here keep claiming it comes up) and it's easy enough to dispel by pointing to the issues every company attempting to do cross-platform has had to deal with.
Or pointing out that there's a form of autoaim in every single console game but hasn't been on PCs since Quake obliterated the need.
Or just by pointing out that doing a 180 takes a tenth of a second with a mouse and about 2 seconds with a controller, no matter what sensitivity you have it cranked up to.
This doesn't mean it isn't a perfectly acceptable form of input, or that players aren't insanely competitive against each other. Putting a speedboat in the America's Cup and it's guaranteed victory, but that doesn't mean those sailing are incompetent morons that shouldn't enjoy what they do. |
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| 7. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 12:03 |
necrosis |
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Dades wrote on Aug 19, 2011, 11:55:
I've never heard any debate.
It's an oft repeated forum canard that people can become as good with a controller as a mouse and keyboard player. The truth is that people might become good enough to compete against other people using controllers but going up against kb/m users will be disastrous. I more look at it as there is a 1000 times higher learning curve on using a controller in a FPS vs. a KB&M.
But I do think you are right. On a level field (no auto-aim, larger hit boxes, any of that bullshit) a well trained KB&M user will drop a just as skilled controller user. Simply on the grounds the KB&M user has better control of how fast he can move the camera around. The controller user would be locked into a fixed speed he can look around and if he increases this speed (if even possible) his accuracy will take a hit.
And as for the thing about Microsoft not doing cross platform games where your input device makes a big difference because of the differences in KB&M vs. controller. Ill second that. Wish I had a link to the article. Only cross platform game I know of is FFXI. But being a MMO the input isn't that big a deal. |
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| 6. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play "Our Goal |
Aug 19, 2011, 11:55 |
Dades |
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I've never heard any debate.
It's an oft repeated forum canard that people can become as good with a controller as a mouse and keyboard player. The truth is that people might become good enough to compete against other people using controllers but going up against kb/m users will be disastrous. |
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| 5. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 11:53 |
necrosis |
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Beamer wrote on Aug 19, 2011, 11:50:
This will end the debate over "keyboard+mouse vs controller" quickly...
I've never heard any debate.
In fact, Microsoft doesn't allow m+k on the Xbox to prevent an unfair advantage, and any cross-platform game in recent memory (Huxley, Shadowrun) has struggled with finding a way to either nerf m+k (which will piss people off) or add auto-aim to controllers.
Seriously. Never once saw anyone question it outside of imagined arguments on this board. Yeah really. Just look how bad auto-aim was when using a controller in the PC version of Crysis 2. Or should I say how good it was.
I would like to say I won't hold my breath tho. Valve is not good at doing balance with things like this. Proof is in Portal 2 with the removal of any puzzle challenge that required fast and precise re-aiming of the portal gun. All because a console version was thought of from day one unlike the original Portal. |
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| 4. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 11:50 |
Beamer |
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This will end the debate over "keyboard+mouse vs controller" quickly...
I've never heard any debate.
In fact, Microsoft doesn't allow m+k on the Xbox to prevent an unfair advantage, and any cross-platform game in recent memory (Huxley, Shadowrun) has struggled with finding a way to either nerf m+k (which will piss people off) or add auto-aim to controllers.
Seriously. Never once saw anyone question it outside of imagined arguments on this board. |
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| 3. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 11:46 |
pagb |
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necrosis wrote on Aug 19, 2011, 11:43:
pagb wrote on Aug 19, 2011, 11:41:
This will end the debate over "keyboard+mouse vs controller" quickly... That was done years ago when Quake 3 came out for Dreamcast. If you downgraded your PC version of Quake 3 to version 1.16 (IIRC) you could play on the same servers. Oh, true! kudos for that! But if I didn't remember that (Quake fan here), I doubt the masses will  |
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| 2. |
Re: Valve: Counter-Strike Global Offensive Cross-Platform Play |
Aug 19, 2011, 11:43 |
necrosis |
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pagb wrote on Aug 19, 2011, 11:41:
This will end the debate over "keyboard+mouse vs controller" quickly... That was done years ago when Quake 3 came out for Dreamcast. If you downgraded your PC version of Quake 3 to version 1.16 (IIRC) you could play on the same servers.
And remember. It was Epic that said gamepad players of U3 were taking out KB&M players left and right. |
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61 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 3.
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