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Skyrim Using Steamworks

A Bethesda Tweet has word that Bethesda's RPG sequel The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim will use Steamworks, saying simply: "We can confirm today that we're using Steamworks for Skyrim."

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47. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 19, 2011, 09:55 Dades
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Aug 19, 2011, 02:41:
Hahaha... by that definition any game with a profile system has DRM in it. Whatever, this argument is a lost cause.

A profile system doesn't have to be a restrictive third party client.
 
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46. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 19, 2011, 05:17 Jerykk
 
Hahaha... by that definition any game with a profile system has DRM in it.

Flawed logic. Many games have offered integrated profile systems without requiring any third-party software and accounts specifically created for said software. A profile system completely contained within a game isn't DRM because the publisher isn't restricting anything. It's simply giving the player more flexibility with how they save their progress and settings. Conversely, with GFWL, if you want to play the game, you HAVE to install GFWL and you HAVE to create an account for it. If you want to save or load games, you HAVE to be logged into said account. If you want achievements, you HAVE to be logged into an online account. Creating an online account and activating a game on it requires a serial key unique to each copy of each game, an obvious attempt to foil pirates. Hence, DRM.

GFWL isn't about giving the player more choice. It's about shoving a worthless third-party product down the player's throat because MS threw some money at the publisher.
 
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45. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 19, 2011, 02:41 StingingVelvet
 
Jerykk wrote on Aug 19, 2011, 00:18:
I'm not talking about online activation. I'm talking about the requirement of installing third-party software (GFWL) and creating a GFWL account (online or offline) if you want to launch, play and save your game. I consider that DRM. Any attempt to control what you can and cannot do with your software is Digital Rights Management. CD-keys, disc checks, online activations, install limits, etc, are all DRM.

Hahaha... by that definition any game with a profile system has DRM in it. Whatever, this argument is a lost cause.
 
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44. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 19, 2011, 00:18 Jerykk
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 17:55:
Jerykk wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 12:14:
Disagreed. GFWL is DRM. Could you bypass it? Sure, just like you can bypass any DRM with a crack or workaround. However, you aren't supposed to and it's most certainly a violation of the DMCA. GFWL + disc check = DRM.

What? You bypass it by ignoring it. The game did not require GFWL activation. The only reason you activated was to get achievements and such, there was no requirement to do so. Every GFWL title is like this actually, you can play with an offline profile by ignoring GFWL.

However they have recently added an online activation during the install process, which makes it DRM. Dead Rising 2 was the first to do this.

I'm not talking about online activation. I'm talking about the requirement of installing third-party software (GFWL) and creating a GFWL account (online or offline) if you want to launch, play and save your game. I consider that DRM. Any attempt to control what you can and cannot do with your software is Digital Rights Management. CD-keys, disc checks, online activations, install limits, etc, are all DRM.
 
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43. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 20:39 Sepharo
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 17:55:
What? You bypass it by ignoring it. The game did not require GFWL activation. The only reason you activated was to get achievements and such, there was no requirement to do so. Every GFWL title is like this actually, you can play with an offline profile by ignoring GFWL.

Negative. Dirt 2 would not allow you to save your game unless you signed in first with GFWL. I learned that the hard way when I "ignored" it and played a few tracks. The next time I loaded up the game I had to sit and watch the very lengthy and annoying "HEY DUDE" intros and tutorials again.

StingingVelvet wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 20:17:
You have to login to a profile, yes, but it can be an offline profile you never activate online. This has been explained for 5 years now but people still don't seem to get it.

Earlier you said I could ignore it. No, I could not.
 
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42. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 20:17 StingingVelvet
 
Dev wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 18:40:
And not all GFWL titles are like that. I recall something with bioshock 2 which refused to let me save my games unless I was logged into GFWL.

You have to login to a profile, yes, but it can be an offline profile you never activate online. This has been explained for 5 years now but people still don't seem to get it.
 
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41. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 19:59 Jdrez
 
According to my dictionary plugin for Chrome: Steamworks, is a gay sauna (gay bathhouse) at 5 Broughton Market, Old Broughton, Edinburgh. It is the largest gay sauna in Edinburgh.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamworks

I lol'd.
 
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40. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 19:28 Noctis
 
And... Pre-order cancelled.  
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39. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 19:18 jimnms
 
Dev wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 18:40:
The DLC needed GFWL from what I remember. Yeah you could do a "workaround" by copying the files, but if you went the proper way, it needed it.

You only needed GFWL to buy the DLC (until it was released on disk and the GOTY edition). There was no DRM in the DLC, so you could backup and re-install the files without using GFWL ever again.
 
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38. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 18:40 Dev
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 17:55:
What? You bypass it by ignoring it. The game did not require GFWL activation. The only reason you activated was to get achievements and such, there was no requirement to do so. Every GFWL title is like this actually, you can play with an offline profile by ignoring GFWL.

However they have recently added an online activation during the install process, which makes it DRM. Dead Rising 2 was the first to do this.
The DLC needed GFWL from what I remember. Yeah you could do a "workaround" by copying the files, but if you went the proper way, it needed it.

And not all GFWL titles are like that. I recall something with bioshock 2 which refused to let me save my games unless I was logged into GFWL.
 
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37. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 17:55 StingingVelvet
 
Jerykk wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 12:14:
Disagreed. GFWL is DRM. Could you bypass it? Sure, just like you can bypass any DRM with a crack or workaround. However, you aren't supposed to and it's most certainly a violation of the DMCA. GFWL + disc check = DRM.

What? You bypass it by ignoring it. The game did not require GFWL activation. The only reason you activated was to get achievements and such, there was no requirement to do so. Every GFWL title is like this actually, you can play with an offline profile by ignoring GFWL.

However they have recently added an online activation during the install process, which makes it DRM. Dead Rising 2 was the first to do this.
 
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36. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 13:43 Dev
 
Glad its not fracking GfWL. Guess they learned their lesson with FO3 and how EVERY SINGLE DLC they released had issues with GfWL for legitimate buyers trying to use purchased content in the way it was supposed to be used.

I'm guessing FO:NV went much smoother on steam.

This comment was edited on Aug 18, 2011, 13:48.
 
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35. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 13:08 headkase
 
Creston wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 11:41:
headkase wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 09:03:
Verno wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 08:52:
The PC gaming industry really needs some sort of universal DLC distribution schema.

It's been a firm opinion of mine for the last few years that the U.S. Library of Congress should store and provide credential-based access to all works, especially digital. They already have a copy of every written work: that is their mission. Getting all the digital ones and then modernizing with the Information Age in mind to include distribution I think is just what they should be doing. Of course, that would kill (or just obsolete) Steam.

Yeah I'd rather not have my digital download client managed by the fucking luddites that infest Washington D.C., thanks...

Creston

You're right, they ARE Luddites. That's why they're not doing it! The private sector always leads the way, but, eventually you need a national-scale project and by the time they're *not* Luddites the engineering to do it will be so well established they won't fsck it up. Well, they will, but it won't be that bad and it'll work most of the time!
 
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34. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 12:14 Jerykk
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 06:15:
Sepharo wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 00:28:
As Jerykk pointed out FO3 used GFWL and I could've swore myself it used SecuROM unless they changed their minds and my brief searching didn't turn it up.

edit: Oh I see now that they used SecuROM just for the disc check that you've mentioned.

The GFWL on Fallout 3 was not DRM. That was before GFWL started requiring activation. You could never activate Fallout 3, never even open the GFWL interface, and play the game completely. Even the DLC did not have DRM on it, you could move it out of the GFWL folder and back it up freely. The launcher had a disc check on it but the normal exe did not.

Fallout 3 was DRM free.

Disagreed. GFWL is DRM. Could you bypass it? Sure, just like you can bypass any DRM with a crack or workaround. However, you aren't supposed to and it's most certainly a violation of the DMCA. GFWL + disc check = DRM.
 
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33. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 11:41 Creston
 
headkase wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 09:03:
Verno wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 08:52:
The PC gaming industry really needs some sort of universal DLC distribution schema.

It's been a firm opinion of mine for the last few years that the U.S. Library of Congress should store and provide credential-based access to all works, especially digital. They already have a copy of every written work: that is their mission. Getting all the digital ones and then modernizing with the Information Age in mind to include distribution I think is just what they should be doing. Of course, that would kill (or just obsolete) Steam.

Yeah I'd rather not have my digital download client managed by the fucking luddites that infest Washington D.C., thanks...

Creston
 
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32. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 11:39 Ratty
 
The Advocate wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 08:05:
I'm fine with this.

I used to hate Steam with a passion as I was under the false impression that it was solely a DRM schema invented to do nothing but track everything I did with my games.

Steam does track what I do with my games and it is a DRM schema. However, it also allows me to install my games on any machine I want so long as that machine has an active internet connection. It offers me great deals on games that I wanted to buy anyway and I no longer have to carry discs back and forth between work and home to play whatever my current interest is.

I look at Steam, now, like I look at my email. I log in once and I get to what I want to do. It's painless and takes maybe a second or four to login.
I so totally agree. HATED Steam and was pissed beyond belief when I found out HL2 required it. I held out for two years before finally playing HL2 (because I didn't have the internet at home at the time). Nowdays I love Steam for the same reasons as you. But also because I recently got a new computer and it was so nice being able to transfer all my games over without having to hunt down the original discs. I'm a slob and my discs are buried all over the place, so that was a big plus for me.
 
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31. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 11:39 Creston
 
headkase wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 07:33:
StingingVelvet wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 06:15:
...Even the DLC did not have DRM on it, you could move it out of the GFWL folder and back it up freely. The launcher had a disc check on it but the normal exe did not.

Fallout 3 was DRM free.

You almost got it.. You know why they're using Steamworks? Paid DLC. Steam has the most mature digital payment and delivery system in practice today. I don't think Bethesda gives a rat's behind whether or not you have to put the disc in the drive, they just want a store where everyone (and if you're not part of "everyone" then you actually don't matter) already has an account to CONSUME!, er, buy! more!

Since I'm fully ensnared by Steam I think not having to put the disc in the drive is a bonus, but, I don't kid myself: it's all about future paid DLC for Skyrim to be Steamworks.

It could be a matter of convenience to move it to Steam, but it's not as if Bethesda is new to the whole DLC thing. They've been making oodles of cash off DLC since Oblivion. They might have been the first to actually OFFER DLC.

Also, I'm not sure that you need to integrate Steamworks in order to be able to sell DLC? edit: Oh, you answered that like four posts later. Thanks.

Creston

 
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30. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 11:33 Alamar
 
I remember the 'convenience' of having to search my room/bookshelf/desk/wherever for that game CD that I haven't played for a month...

Much easier than just making sure I'm online (if even that), and launching the game...

-Alamar
 
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29. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 09:28 Dades
 
^Drag0n^ wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 09:22:
I've never seen or heard of that happening. You must have the shittiest ISP on the planet...

^D^

I think you're confused, I was talking about GFWL and it was a well documented problem. My ISP has nothing to do with it, that would have been an easy fix.
 
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28. Re: Skyrim Using Steamworks Aug 18, 2011, 09:22 ^Drag0n^
 
Dades wrote on Aug 18, 2011, 07:07:
It might as well have been DRM for how many times it fucked up my user profile and saves before I was forced to download a crack.

I've never seen or heard of that happening. You must have the shittiest ISP on the planet...

^D^
 
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"Never start a fight, but always finish it."
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