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On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution

There's an interview with Eidos: Montreal and Nixxes Software on GameSpy discussing the Windows edition of Deus Ex: Human Revolution, the upcoming action/RPG prequel. This covers the efforts made by Nixxes Software and AMD to create a version of the game that is more that just a straight port of the console editions. Here are a pair of quotes about this:

Julien Bouvrais: First off, Nixxes developed a DX11 renderer that is used on the PC, when available. We did leverage this by adding several features you will see when you have DX11 hardware on your PC: real-time tessellation, improved Screen Space Ambient Occlusion, improved blurs and depth of field. We also added custom support for AMD's Eyefinity (multiple monitors), and 3DHD. On another note, the user interface has been tailored for the keyboard, and mouse controls can be fully customized for your gaming habits.

Jurjen Katsman: We did quite a lot of work on anti-aliasing as well. We offer various anti-aliasing options to gamers to choose from depending on how powerful their hardware is. They really help smooth out rough edges that you can see more easily on a PC monitor.

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76. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 16, 2011, 15:28 nin
 
No shadow hiding in this one, just a weird line of sight cone, police in the not so distant future have eyes in their toes.

I saw that and wondered if you could shoot up through the vent at them...

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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75. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 16, 2011, 15:09 saluk
 
It's about believability. It's not exactly about realism, but Deus Ex made you feel like you were in a real place (in fact that was one of the stated design goals by Warren Spector and why he chose to set it in the real world). None of the DX:HR environments feel like a real place - I feel like I'm playing a game. The reason I beat Deus Ex in a few days with very little sleep or eating is because it sucked me in. DX:HR may be a good game, and perhaps have more of the spirit than IW, but it has so far failed to suck me in.

I'll still buy it. I mean, what else is there? Actually I'm very much looking forward to Skyrim. From what I've seen so far, it builds on the platform the previous game created, rather than being a pale imitation. But yeah I'll probably still buy DX:HR. Even if the best I can say about it is that they tried. Anyone else who saw DX as a flawed combat simulator with some rpg trappings (and its possible to see it in different ways because thats how it was made) will probably think its great!
 
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74. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 16, 2011, 04:17 J
 
Squirmer wrote on Aug 15, 2011, 19:16:
Whoa whoa. Say you like the ~cinematic wank~ that they turned melee into if you want. Say you like having a one-click I Win button if you want. But when you say that's 'more balanced' I gotta disagree. The takedowns in HR are so overpowered they had to cripple them by making them take a full energy pip every time.

Dude, here's an aardvark. This may help with whatever vicious insect swarm is in your pants right now.

Yeah, they realised melee was powerful so now not everybody can abuse it, you need to develop your character around it. Oh no, how un-Deus Ex-like!

That's not necessarily a problem on its own, but it's a problem that all your other augmentations draw from the same power pool. By crippling takedowns by making them take a lot of power, they've also crippled all other augmentations. Just look the developer walkthrough video on Gamespot the other day; the player uses cloak to stealth and runs out of power again and again.

Oh yeah, the walkthrough where he has a low level of cloak so it burns up the battery quicker. If he invested more praxis points to get a higher level of cloak and invested in the faster battery recharge then it goes much more smoothly. I know this as I have actually played as a melee character who does exactly that.

The more you invest into an area the better you are at it. What a bizarre concept!

Far from being 'more balanced', the melee system is the single most unbalanced thing in the entire game, both because of the one-button overpowered kills, and because it screws you over with your other augmentations.

ONE-BUTTON OVERPOWERED KILLS!!! OMG!!! Might want to turn that aardvark from suck to blow there. In the original Deus Ex you could melee from a crouched position and remain concealed. In Human Revolution the
~cinematic wank~
leaves you exposed, so if you do it near other guys you're going to be shot at. So instead of rushing in and using your OMG ONE-BUTTON OVERPOWERED KILL!!! you have to think about how you're going to tackle it and make sure you have enough energy if you want to use an aug afterwards. With a character who has been given appropriate upgrades, it's much easier than it is for someone who has tacked it on - like in your messiah's walkthrough.

(Seriously, I need to spend energy just to punch a guy? They've basically made melee consume 'ammo'. Worse, it's actually a form of universal ammo because all your other augs require the same resource. How hilarious given the lead designer's condemnation of universal ammo the other day.)

OMG! In Deus Ex... all my augs used up my battery life... it was universal ammo! My heart is broken now. It had universal ammo all this time and I never even noticed. I guess you've won this argument, there's no way I can come back from that one. Sound point. I'll go cancel my pre-order.
Some people will whine about anything, won't they?
 
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73. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 16, 2011, 03:42 Raptor
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 16, 2011, 00:23:
You should try playing Deus EX to begin with ;p Anyone saying combat and sneaking in Deus EX works fine needs a brain exam.

Melee is absolutely OP (against armored soldiers and even mechs) - the nano sword is the insta-pwn weapon of choice
No gunsight aiming (which removes the skill out of aiming)
and theres no clear feedback on what counts as hidden and what not - line of sight it ain't. So unless "guessing" and quick-save quick-load means skill i remain on that stance, Deus EX 1 combat is completely broken. It might even be more broken than Morrowinds (at least there you had sneaking feedback)

You sir, are completely off the track then.
I highly recommend having a playthrough again and actually try to play stealthy this time. It works.
Stealth in Dx was a combination of light, sound and line of sight.
So staying in the dark helps and it's not that hard to decide if you're hidden or not.
In my numberous playthroughs I don't recall being frustrated or having to quick load all the time.
Since the combat seems to annoy you so much you clearly didn't bother much with the stealth.

Oh and a note on my HR stealth experience, I recall quickloading much more because I was in the vent only seeing the feet of the enemy and was detected multiple times the same way. No shadow hiding in this one, just a weird line of sight cone, police in the not so distant future have eyes in their toes.
 
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72. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 16, 2011, 02:15 Jerykk
 
Melee is absolutely OP (against armored soldiers and even mechs) - the nano sword is the insta-pwn weapon of choice

Agreed.

No gunsight aiming (which removes the skill out of aiming)

Disagreed. Aiming requires ton of skill in DX, both in terms of stats and personal ability. The speed at which your reticule focuses depends on your character's weapon skill. If the player moves the reticule too quickly, the focusing stops. Therefore, player skill is required in keeping the reticule on target while character skill determines how long the player has to do that.

and theres no clear feedback on what counts as hidden and what not - line of sight it ain't. So unless "guessing" and quick-save quick-load means skill i remain on that stance, Deus EX 1 combat is completely broken. It might even be more broken than Morrowinds (at least there you had sneaking feedback)

I assume you're talking about a light meter? If I recall correctly, stealth in DX was based on line of sight and sound. If an enemy can't see or hear you, you aren't detected. If an enemy says "I thought I saw something," that means he caught a glimpse of you and is currently investigating. If he sets off an alarm and starts shooting at you, that means you've been discovered. Security cameras also give off a visual and auditory warning whenever they spot you, giving you a chance to break line of sight and avoid an alarm.

There's nothing really broken about DX's combat, except the stupid AI that runs like a chicken with its head cut off. The core combat mechanics all work as intended. Whether or not you agree with their design is another matter entirely.
 
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71. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 16, 2011, 00:23 eRe4s3r
 
Squirmer wrote on Aug 15, 2011, 19:20:
Or would you rather have Deus EX 1's absolutely fracking horrible combat back? Where melee and sneaking is completely and utterly hilariously broken? Sneaking in Deus EX is pure luck, and luck got nothing to do with skill.

This is such rubbish I don't even know what I can say. Seriously, lrn2play or something.

You should try playing Deus EX to begin with ;p Anyone saying combat and sneaking in Deus EX works fine needs a brain exam.

Melee is absolutely OP (against armored soldiers and even mechs) - the nano sword is the insta-pwn weapon of choice
No gunsight aiming (which removes the skill out of aiming)
and theres no clear feedback on what counts as hidden and what not - line of sight it ain't. So unless "guessing" and quick-save quick-load means skill i remain on that stance, Deus EX 1 combat is completely broken. It might even be more broken than Morrowinds (at least there you had sneaking feedback)
 
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70. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 16, 2011, 00:16 eRe4s3r
 
Notice i said "broken" not "ineffective"  
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69. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 15, 2011, 19:20 Squirmer
 
Or would you rather have Deus EX 1's absolutely fracking horrible combat back? Where melee and sneaking is completely and utterly hilariously broken? Sneaking in Deus EX is pure luck, and luck got nothing to do with skill.

This is such rubbish I don't even know what I can say. Seriously, lrn2play or something.
 
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68. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 15, 2011, 19:16 Squirmer
 
They didn't remove melee - they altered it. It's different, but I think that the way they implemented it is more balanced.

Whoa whoa. Say you like the ~cinematic wank~ that they turned melee into if you want. Say you like having a one-click I Win button if you want. But when you say that's 'more balanced' I gotta disagree. The takedowns in HR are so overpowered they had to cripple them by making them take a full energy pip every time.

That's not necessarily a problem on its own, but it's a problem that all your other augmentations draw from the same power pool. By crippling takedowns by making them take a lot of power, they've also crippled all other augmentations. Just look the developer walkthrough video on Gamespot the other day; the player uses cloak to stealth and runs out of power again and again.

Far from being 'more balanced', the melee system is the single most unbalanced thing in the entire game, both because of the one-button overpowered kills, and because it screws you over with your other augmentations.

(Seriously, I need to spend energy just to punch a guy? They've basically made melee consume 'ammo'. Worse, it's actually a form of universal ammo because all your other augs require the same resource. How hilarious given the lead designer's condemnation of universal ammo the other day.)
 
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67. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 15, 2011, 18:49 J
 
nin wrote on Aug 15, 2011, 18:20:
Throwing a fridge at a hostile is still quite gratifying.

Or a dumpster!


Or their dead/unconscious friend
 
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66. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 15, 2011, 18:20 nin
 
Throwing a fridge at a hostile is still quite gratifying.

Or a dumpster!

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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65. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 15, 2011, 18:05 J
 
If HR is successful and they consider another one then we can forward those sentiments on to them. From what I've experienced, it's more Deus Ex than Invisible War. I'm grateful that they've taken the license and are putting a lot of effort in to try and make a good game, and I'm of the mind that it's better to reward (and enjoy!) that kind of effort.

They didn't remove melee - they altered it. It's different, but I think that the way they implemented it is more balanced. It wasn't that hard in the original Deus Ex to get a melee knockout; and on the hardest difficulty level you can go down in one or two shots, so you still need to fight smart.

I'd like to be able to pick up and throw a larger variety of things, but it's not a game-breaker for me. Throwing a fridge at a hostile is still quite gratifying.
 
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64. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 15, 2011, 16:40 saluk
 
My problem is, while they have taken a few steps in the right direction in some cases, they have taken a mighty leap backward in terms of a believable environment. Deus Ex came from the line of design going back to the system shock and ultima underworld, where the primary concern is making you feel like an agent in a believable world, rather than the "invisible walls" school of design, which is all about the designer as god and how they can get you to do the right thing. No, I can't think of a situation where I used a plant that I picked up off the ground in a useful way, but damn it was cool to pick up a plant and throw it off a ledge, watching it smash and all the npcs walking around down there look up at me funny. They put stuff like that in the game "just because". These days, most design has to be justified by what it adds to the game, and anything that doesn't is not really considered. How can you hope to have emergent gameplay if you have to justifiy every design decision? All I want is to take an immersive environment like the first DX, but improve the many glaring flaws that it had. Removing melee is not an example of the kind of improvement I'm looking for. Having a radar is. Having a pile of objects like a cardboard box, a trash can, a trash bag, and some magazines; letting me pick up the cardboard box, but not letting me pick up anything else, is not. They took some of the combat ideas to the next level, and threw everything else out. They saw the original game as a broken combat simulator with some useless rpg trimmings, instead of as an immersive rpg with some broken combat simulations.  
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63. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 15, 2011, 12:44 J
 
Jerykk wrote on Aug 15, 2011, 12:11:
Or would you rather have Deus EX 1's absolutely fracking horrible combat back? Where melee and sneaking is completely and utterly hilariously broken? Sneaking in Deus EX is pure luck, and luck got nothing to do with skill.

Gonna have to disagree with you there. A solid thwack to the back of the head with a baton would knock out almost all enemies in one hit. A couple of hits with the stun prod would have the same effect. I snuck my way through way DX using these tactics. It had nothing to do with luck.

You gotta aim for the small of the back with the stun prod!

Also, I agree, stealth in DX had skill - there were definitely tactics you can use to improve your stealthiness.

I don't think HR is perfect, but I think it's a solid step in the right direction. The more of those we take the better things get.
 
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62. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 15, 2011, 12:11 Jerykk
 
Or would you rather have Deus EX 1's absolutely fracking horrible combat back? Where melee and sneaking is completely and utterly hilariously broken? Sneaking in Deus EX is pure luck, and luck got nothing to do with skill.

Gonna have to disagree with you there. A solid thwack to the back of the head with a baton would knock out almost all enemies in one hit. A couple of hits with the stun prod would have the same effect. I snuck my way through way DX using these tactics. It had nothing to do with luck.
 
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61. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 15, 2011, 12:10 Creston
 
finga wrote on Aug 15, 2011, 08:40:
And again, people are presuming to know for sure how console players actually play. This only holds true in a house with a sizable living room. Millions of console gamers are playing differently than that.

So the gist is: None of you know how console players are playing. Only finga does. Rolleyes
Seriously, what are you actually arguing here? You asked a question, it got answered. Then you shift the goalposts and complain that consoles should have that option too, and they don't, and... I dunno... let's form a coalition to get FOV options in consoles?

I think the biggest reason you don't get FOV controls in consoles is because devs are lazy. There. Both your questions answered.

Creston

 
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60. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 15, 2011, 12:06 Raptor
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 15, 2011, 09:19:
I am sorry but.. how else would you do melee take-downs ?

Well how about having a melee weapon rather than an energy using autotakedown ?

Press "X" to watch cutscene is not the solution to this.

Is it hard to do melee ? Why would the only alternative be a system from a game 10 years old ?
Which frankly I didn't think to be that difficult to use ?
Sneak behind someones back and hit them in the head with something.

In DxHR you do almost the same, except when you run out of energy you stand behind the person like an idiot. It's not like Jensen was a girl before he got augmented ? Or does he have no physical strength at all without augs ?

Overengineering gameplay is an issue with games these days, leave some freedom and alternatives to the player please.
 
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59. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 15, 2011, 09:25 Verno
 
finga wrote on Aug 15, 2011, 08:47:
I think I've got what I'm looking for. And the result is this: PC gamers still have a fucking looooong way to go.

Ok? I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean. If you want PC-like features in console games then you need console gamers to actually desire those things. Most console gamers don't care, that's why they are on consoles in the first place. They don't want tweaks and extra features, they want convenience and simplicity. It's literally the draw of the platform. That's not a judgment of console gamers, it's a statement of fact.
 
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Playing: Dark Souls 2
Watching: Legends, Intruders, Apocalypse Now
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58. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 15, 2011, 09:19 eRe4s3r
 
I am sorry but.. how else would you do melee take-downs ?

Rain dances before the screen?
Doing weird hand signs?
Left mouse button instead of keyboard button?
Sending mail-request form 6b11-2 via fedex?

Or would you rather have Deus EX 1's absolutely fracking horrible combat back? Where melee and sneaking is completely and utterly hilariously broken? Sneaking in Deus EX is pure luck, and luck got nothing to do with skill.

And you can always just aim properly and take enemies down with silencer or tranq gun when take down is too dangerous

This comment was edited on Aug 15, 2011, 11:34.
 
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57. Re: On PC Deus Ex Human Revolution Aug 15, 2011, 09:11 eRe4s3r
 
The only thing that we know now is that console gamers are still total nubs who can't accept the OBVIOUS total superiority of the PC-Gamer uber-race.

might or might not be sarcasm
 
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