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DOTA 2 Interview

An interview on GameSpy chats with Valve's Erik Johnson about DOTA 2, Valve's upcoming Defense of the Ancients sequel. Perhaps most interesting is Erik's take on community building in response to a question that suggested the original DOTA community is "toxic." Here's his reply:

We don't think the DOTA community is a toxic one at all. A huge number of users spend a huge amount of their time just writing guides to teach new (and experienced) players strategies for heroes, items, and high-level strategy for the game. In any community of this size, you're going to run into some people that rub you the wrong way... but I think that is true for, well, your average grocery store.

We also want to build more tools for the community to interact with each other, like allowing an experienced player to coach someone who is new to the game. Most new players come into DOTA via their friends, so we think this makes a lot of sense.

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10. Re: DOTA 2 Interview Aug 15, 2011, 09:34 Verno
 
It's not the amount of time spent either. People are inherently nasty in these games even if you're playing nonranked games with no real stakes. Sure you can find decent people to play with but generally speaking if you ever make a mistake your teammates are going to pounce on you like jackals on a wounded animal. It's simply not fun to play the game with people who take it that seriously or are just there to get their inner aggression out.  
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9. Re: DOTA 2 Interview Aug 15, 2011, 03:14 Dev
 
Has he played DOTA much with people he doesn't know?

Pretty much every post I've seen from people on blues who've played DOTA talk about how nasty the community is.

I've yet to try it in large part because of that.
 
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8. Re: DOTA 2 Interview Aug 14, 2011, 15:38 Warskull
 
Jerykk wrote on Aug 14, 2011, 00:05:
That's not really the community's fault though. It is flawed mechanics. 45 min-1hr long games combined with the fact that one person can not only cause you to lose, but completely cripple the entire team tends to result in angry people.

I don't think that's an issue with mechanics. What you're essentially saying is that all team-based multiplayer games should require large teams so that crappy players can't have s significant impact on their team's success. Large teams are not suited to all genres, particularly strategy games.

It isn't the large team aspect. If you are playing TF2 on a smaller server, even if you have one bad player on your team you can still perform to your maximum and kill people. Furthermore the matches aren't 1 hour long. In DotA/LoL it is really more about item builds, positioning, ect. Having one bad player tends to put your team behind on items and makes you fight every fight a man down. Then every fight the enemy team wins they get even better items completely crippling your ability to do anything.

The game snowballs and you can lose in 15 minutes, but it can then take 45 minutes for the game to finish. Furthermore once you hit midgame a lot of fights are already pre-determined by items, position, hero choice, and level.

The game tends to leave you in a lame duck position while with more action oriented games you can at least still successfully shoot people and get something done. On top of this they don't just let players leave because someone leaving mid-game tends to break the game.

The weakest player in the game can often decide the game and not only does the weakest player lose the game for you, he limits your ability to have fun. Making the game have more players wouldn't fix it, but only make the problem worse. It needs shorter games that end much faster when one team is severely outclassed.

Think of it this way, in almost every FPS no matter how bad a player is, they are usually better than having an empty slot. In DotA and its derivatives there are countless times where I would rather play the game 4v5 than have a bad player on my team. Also as mentioned the influence of a bad player feeding is a magnitude greater than the influence of a good player carrying.
 
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7. Re: DOTA 2 Interview Aug 14, 2011, 11:51 Lokust
 
The community is toxic almost by design. You have games that require a commitment of up to an hour, where it's easier for one bad player to lose the game for your team than it is for one player to be awesome and win the game for your team. It's a formula for rage.  
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6. Re: DOTA 2 Interview Aug 14, 2011, 03:58 spindoctor
 
Well he obviously can't come out and say that the community sucks but I'm sure even he knows that it's the truth.  
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5. Re: DOTA 2 Interview Aug 14, 2011, 00:19 Kobalt
 
Wow what a waste of time, not one question in that interview was actually answered.  
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4. Re: DOTA 2 Interview Aug 14, 2011, 00:05 Jerykk
 
That's not really the community's fault though. It is flawed mechanics. 45 min-1hr long games combined with the fact that one person can not only cause you to lose, but completely cripple the entire team tends to result in angry people.

I don't think that's an issue with mechanics. What you're essentially saying is that all team-based multiplayer games should require large teams so that crappy players can't have s significant impact on their team's success. Large teams are not suited to all genres, particularly strategy games.
 
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3. Re: DOTA 2 Interview Aug 14, 2011, 00:03 Kobalt
 
Nope, it's all the dota community that's bad. I played LoL for months and can only vaguely one person being rude to me vs every single game in hon.  
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2. Re: DOTA 2 Interview Aug 13, 2011, 22:36 Warskull
 
rist3903 wrote on Aug 13, 2011, 21:07:
Just because there are positive examples of people in a community does not mean that gameplay mechanics of the genre do not lend themselves to people getting extremely irritated at new players. One person on a team can cause the team to lose, making the others pissed at him.

If you consider that this is a very common occurrence, it is easy to extrapolate from that that quite a few in the community are somewhat unfriendly to the uninitiated.

That's not really the community's fault though. It is flawed mechanics. 45 min-1hr long games combined with the fact that one person can not only cause you to lose, but completely cripple the entire team tends to result in angry people.
 
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1. Re: DOTA 2 Interview Aug 13, 2011, 21:07 rist3903
 
Just because there are positive examples of people in a community does not mean that gameplay mechanics of the genre do not lend themselves to people getting extremely irritated at new players. One person on a team can cause the team to lose, making the others pissed at him.

If you consider that this is a very common occurrence, it is easy to extrapolate from that that quite a few in the community are somewhat unfriendly to the uninitiated.
 
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