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Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming

"I think it's a fallacy that it hasn't. Everyone quotes World of Warcraft as being the obvious one, but there's a massively thriving community of hardcore gamers on the PC still. The way they get their games is different where it's nearly all online delivery, so you've got the likes of Paradox, who do a variety of niche content but it's all massively hardcore and serves that audience. You've got the World of Tanks guys who have something like a million concurrent users or something stupid like that. That is not a platform that is in trouble. It's just different, it's changed," says Epic's Mike Gamble. "It happens every so often, we've been having the same talks since Windows 95. It goes up and down, the consoles are here and the PC is in the trough, then the PCs are here and consoles are down there. That's how the performance works, just the fact that deliver has changed on PC, that it's not trackable as it once was, it's not the retail, it doesn't mean it's gone."

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26. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 18:46 Sepharo
 
Mead wrote on Aug 4, 2011, 16:07:
Dev wrote on Aug 4, 2011, 13:21:
Mead wrote on Aug 4, 2011, 11:42:
I couldn't tell you which games Epic produced, and I don't give a shit. The game is either entertaining on its own and worth the cost, or it isn't. The key to not getting screwed out of your money isn't nerdraging after blindly throwing it at something, but paying attention and making sure you're spending it on something worthy.
And part of that finding "something worthy" equation means looking at the company that is doing the game and what history they have. If they've put out a bunch of crappy games, there's a lower chance that their next one will be good. Or if they've put out a bunch of great quality games, there's a better chance their next one will be good. There's also support questions, does the company have a history of supporting and patching the game, or do they drop it like a hot potato next year when the sequel comes out.

Those are all factors in the equation, just like the reviews and metacritic scores are factors. There's other factors as well, and the mix of factors can differ person to person. A lot of people just want eye candy and a shooter for instance, and could care less about every other factor.
So you are in complete and total agreement with me, that's great. Could have said it in fewer words, but to each their own.

I dunno...

You said you don't give a shit about their past releases, he said he uses past releases to gauge future release quality.

Complete and total agreement?
 
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25. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 16:07 Mead
 
Dev wrote on Aug 4, 2011, 13:21:
Mead wrote on Aug 4, 2011, 11:42:
I couldn't tell you which games Epic produced, and I don't give a shit. The game is either entertaining on its own and worth the cost, or it isn't. The key to not getting screwed out of your money isn't nerdraging after blindly throwing it at something, but paying attention and making sure you're spending it on something worthy.
And part of that finding "something worthy" equation means looking at the company that is doing the game and what history they have. If they've put out a bunch of crappy games, there's a lower chance that their next one will be good. Or if they've put out a bunch of great quality games, there's a better chance their next one will be good. There's also support questions, does the company have a history of supporting and patching the game, or do they drop it like a hot potato next year when the sequel comes out.

Those are all factors in the equation, just like the reviews and metacritic scores are factors. There's other factors as well, and the mix of factors can differ person to person. A lot of people just want eye candy and a shooter for instance, and could care less about every other factor.
So you are in complete and total agreement with me, that's great. Could have said it in fewer words, but to each their own.
 
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24. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 14:38 WaltC
 
Oh, if only I had a nickel for every time in the last 15 years I've heard the refrain, "The PC is dead and the gaming console is the future"...:D It never happened because it couldn't have. PCs not only can do what consoles do and do it much better, they can also do many, many other things that consoles cannot do because they weren't designed to do them. And with PCs selling upwards of 300M a year, every year, the PC economies of scale are such that for merely double the cost of a current console you can buy a computer that runs rings around it while gaming and is good for many other things, too. Dollar for dollar, the smart money is on the PC these days. It just makes a lot more sense to buy a PC. I see that trend only increasing with the passage of time.

Is there really anyone left alive who doesn't know that the current hardware in "today's" console is little more than yesterday's warmed over PC state-of-the-art hardware?

Companies who dismiss the PC today in favor of exclusive console development are going to become increasingly marginalized as time moves on. I can say it without malice of any kind: software companies who ignore the goal of developing state-of-the-art PC games today in favor of consoles and even the other toy-like devices on the market (Nintendo, etc.) are already "has beens" and are on the way out. Companies like CD Projekt RED (Witcher, Witcher2) are the future and will be showing yesterday's great developers how things need to be done *today.*

Epic, id, and some other game-developing powerhouses of yesteryear are being shown the light by companies like CD Projekt Red. I certainly hope these guys wake up and smell the coffee. John Carmack, especially. As just one example, he loves to talk about how excited he is to be developing RAGE for Nintendo's latest toy-gadget. But if Carmack expects to market his games at $50 a pop as was true in the past, he isn't going to do that by offering the PC the same essential content he designs for Nintendo. Nope--not going to happen. And the upcoming so-called smart-phone gaming market, where people expect to buy games for <$5 at release, is not going to produce anything better today than 1980's Amiga arcade fare. I guess the old guard will just have to move over for the new if they think quality gaming is Commander Keen and pals. As difficult as it is to believe, I think some traditional developers actually do think this way.

 
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23. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 13:21 Dev
 
Mead wrote on Aug 4, 2011, 11:42:
I couldn't tell you which games Epic produced, and I don't give a shit. The game is either entertaining on its own and worth the cost, or it isn't. The key to not getting screwed out of your money isn't nerdraging after blindly throwing it at something, but paying attention and making sure you're spending it on something worthy.
And part of that finding "something worthy" equation means looking at the company that is doing the game and what history they have. If they've put out a bunch of crappy games, there's a lower chance that their next one will be good. Or if they've put out a bunch of great quality games, there's a better chance their next one will be good. There's also support questions, does the company have a history of supporting and patching the game, or do they drop it like a hot potato next year when the sequel comes out.

Those are all factors in the equation, just like the reviews and metacritic scores are factors. There's other factors as well, and the mix of factors can differ person to person. A lot of people just want eye candy and a shooter for instance, and could care less about every other factor.
 
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22. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 12:16 killer_roach
 
MattyC wrote on Aug 4, 2011, 09:18:
What? The years of support and free content releases for their games? Sure GoW for the PC was crappy and they didn't do GoW 2 for the PC, but the vast majority of their time as a company they had solid support for PC gamers. The solid editor and mod integration? It is more like "We forget... and quickly!".

I swear most of the Epic haters have to be like 13.

Age, IQ, or both?

But yeah, it is pretty funny how fast the long knives come out. Save your vitriol for the guys who really and truly couldn't care less.
 
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21. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 11:42 Mead
 
Paketep wrote on Aug 4, 2011, 02:26:
If I were Epic, I wouldn't dare to open my mouth to say ANYTHING about PC.

We remember.
What's this 'we' shit?

Make sure the people you're speaking for want you as the spokesperson.

I couldn't tell you which games Epic produced, and I don't give a shit. The game is either entertaining on its own and worth the cost, or it isn't. The key to not getting screwed out of your money isn't nerdraging after blindly throwing it at something, but paying attention and making sure you're spending it on something worthy.
 
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20. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 11:38 Dev
 
bhcompy wrote on Aug 4, 2011, 09:48:
With digital distribution and no licensing fees it's almost guaranteed that PC games have way better per unit margins, though. And even with physical distribution, it would still be better, just not that much better.
Except per unit margins isn't the only thing in question, there's also the question of volume. There's higher piracy ratio on PC than consoles, which affects volume of sales.

 
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19. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 11:10 Arithon
 
I think the absurd quest for "fool proof" DRM in a vain attempt to slay the mythical piracy dragon has killed PC retail.

How many game stores near you sell PC games? How much shelf space do they get? How much do they offer on trade in for PC titles?

All those questions have negative answers because distrubutors (not developers) have damaged the "product" with DRM and key systems that mean you cannot resell a PC game. I can buy and XBOX title or DS game, rip it and trade it in, so why are PC's singled out? Because in the "war on piracy" the PC has always been painted as the "bad guy" and admitting they were wrong is to admit defeat. Which they'll never do.

So instead, PC retail has died a death and online retailers and digital distribution systems have picked up the slack.

PC gamers are still here and always will be.

DRM has failed. Welcome to the 21st century. Now release PC games in a resaleble form. Retailers are happy. Put codes on DLC - you can resell that to each new owner, you get an income. Support modding - keep the titles alive longer - recoup on DLC for longer. It's not rocket science.

 
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18. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 11:05 Creston
 
Another day, another Epic dude giving some lukewarm support for PC games, probably with a grimace on his face like he just stepped in a fresh pile of dogshit.

MarkyMark: "Who of our guys hasn't given a quote with tepid support for PC gaming yet? Come on, we're the co-founders of the PC Gaming Alliance, we have to keep giving lip service to PC gaming support!"
cliffy: "Mike hasn't yet."
Gamble: "Me? No, I uh... I gotta go to the hospital, I don't feel so well!"

The enthusiasm for PC gaming literally fucking OOZES out of these guys. Rolleyes

Creston

 
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17. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 10:42 Silicon Avatar
 
All I really want is another sequel to Jazz Jackrabbit.

 
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16. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 09:48 bhcompy
 
Jerykk wrote on Aug 4, 2011, 04:31:
He isn't wrong though, console and PC gaming have traded back and forth on which is "in" and which is "out" since they started. Right now we're really already in a time where the focus is on the PC.

I wouldn't go that far. Consoles still make the bulk of profits for most games. With the growth of digital distribution and the aging of console hardware, PC is receiving stronger focus than it has since 2006 but that's still a far cry from the glorious days of the 90's and early 2000.

With digital distribution and no licensing fees it's almost guaranteed that PC games have way better per unit margins, though. And even with physical distribution, it would still be better, just not that much better.
 
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15. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 09:18 MattyC
 
Paketep wrote on Aug 4, 2011, 02:26:
If I were Epic, I wouldn't dare to open my mouth to say ANYTHING about PC.

We remember.

What? The years of support and free content releases for their games? Sure GoW for the PC was crappy and they didn't do GoW 2 for the PC, but the vast majority of their time as a company they had solid support for PC gamers. The solid editor and mod integration? It is more like "We forget... and quickly!".

I swear most of the Epic haters have to be like 13.
 
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14. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 08:09 Dev
 
Actually its far MORE trackable with digital sales... just companies don't like to share the info now. You can now easily track each day what sales happened and correlate sales very easily to events, such as big discounts on steam or digital distributions. There's also no warehousing and inventory issues with excess or too little stock on hand.
Epic, feel free to give us all the exact sales data you have on digital sales of your products, such as the exact number of PC sales of bulletstorm.

Grokk wrote on Aug 3, 2011, 23:05:
There is still a requirement to have the latest and greatest video card for serious gamers, but gone are the days where everything you plugged into a PC needed to be for gaming.
I would argue that's not even a requirement, if you get a $50 on sale video card, you can do most things at decent resolutions and detail.

Hardcore serious gamers who overclock everything, have 3 monitors and 2 or 3 video cards, sure they are out there, but its not a requirement for even the most modern of games.
 
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13. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 07:36 InBlack
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 4, 2011, 02:54:
Funny how many of these devs in general are suddenly piping up to the press now that the console fortunes are fading and facing increased competition from mobile platforms.

It always amuses me when people say things about someone not even bothering to know any of his history or background.
Mike is the EU territory manager. He switched from CryTek to Epic sometime in the last 6 months. To say he's "suddenly piping up" as if he was the guy making the decision not to release Gears 2 for the PC is kind of missing who he is, what he does and how long he's done it for.

People here tend to react to comments without even clicking into the article to see anything about the guy that said it.

So he's the guy who left one douchebag developer (Fuck you Yerli) to join another even more douchy? (Fuck you too Rein)
 
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12. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 07:16 Dades
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 4, 2011, 02:54:

It always amuses me when people say things about someone not even bothering to know any of his history or background.
Mike is the EU territory manager. He switched from CryTek to Epic sometime in the last 6 months. To say he's "suddenly piping up" as if he was the guy making the decision not to release Gears 2 for the PC is kind of missing who he is, what he does and how long he's done it for.

People here tend to react to comments without even clicking into the article to see anything about the guy that said it.

No one said anything about Gears of War 2 there pal and most of us don't want it anyway, the Gears port was bad enough to last a lifetime. It was a comment about how devs are making increased public statements of support for the PC but if you want to read into it that I am questioning this particular guys history then run like the wind blows gump.
 
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11. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 04:31 Jerykk
 
He isn't wrong though, console and PC gaming have traded back and forth on which is "in" and which is "out" since they started. Right now we're really already in a time where the focus is on the PC.

I wouldn't go that far. Consoles still make the bulk of profits for most games. With the growth of digital distribution and the aging of console hardware, PC is receiving stronger focus than it has since 2006 but that's still a far cry from the glorious days of the 90's and early 2000.
 
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10. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 02:54 Beamer
 
Funny how many of these devs in general are suddenly piping up to the press now that the console fortunes are fading and facing increased competition from mobile platforms.

It always amuses me when people say things about someone not even bothering to know any of his history or background.
Mike is the EU territory manager. He switched from CryTek to Epic sometime in the last 6 months. To say he's "suddenly piping up" as if he was the guy making the decision not to release Gears 2 for the PC is kind of missing who he is, what he does and how long he's done it for.

People here tend to react to comments without even clicking into the article to see anything about the guy that said it.
 
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9. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 4, 2011, 02:26 Paketep
 
If I were Epic, I wouldn't dare to open my mouth to say ANYTHING about PC.

We remember.
 
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8. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 3, 2011, 23:05 Grokk
 
It certainly helps that your average PC picked up off the shelf in some shop is going to be able to play most games nowadays.

There is still a requirement to have the latest and greatest video card for serious gamers, but gone are the days where everything you plugged into a PC needed to be for gaming.
NIC's, Sound cards etc.. have been onboard and of reasonable quality for years now and finally the onboard video cards are catching up.

It's much much easier now to walk into a shop, spend a few C-notes and have a computer that can play a wide assortment of games. The same thing people have been doing with consoles for decades.
 
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7. Re: Quoteworthy - Epic on PC Gaming Aug 3, 2011, 22:42 killer_roach
 
necrosis wrote on Aug 3, 2011, 22:22:
Which is in and which is out?

When was the last swing? I think this is the FIRST swing. The first time consoles stood a chance next to PC gaming ever. So saying things 'swing'... heh you must be able to see the future.

Apart from the Amiga, the PC was little competition for the SNES in the early 90s. The PS1 and N64 had a couple of years before the PC really took over in a major way around 1997, the PS2 and Xbox each had about a year of dominance each, and then the 360 and PS3 more or less started off behind the curve. If anything, it's only been recently that the PC has had a consistent edge in its favor, and each time the pendulum swings back to the consoles it does so for a shorter and shorter frame of time.
 
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