73 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 2.
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| 53. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 17:17 |
xXBatmanXx |
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| Was poking around in the Origin service, and found it funny they sell Valve exclusive games. |
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In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
Playing: RL |
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| 52. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 16:21 |
Tumbler |
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Please. They'll do it the Bill Roper Corrolary way. Subscribe and you get the map pack for free, but only as long as you keep subscribing. Unsubscribe for a month, and your map packs go away.
This is what I'm expecting. They might still offer the map packs separately for $15 but what is the advantage to that? Push a map pack out a month after launch, then let ppl who do not subscribe start getting dropped from games because they don't have the maps? Do this 3 months in a row and you'll have the core game holders choosing between paying $10 a month to play all those new maps or not pay and get dropped constantly and not have new maps. I'm assuming it's $10 a month...$15 a month and it starts looking really shady because $15 got your a full set of maps before and now it's a month of play? $10 is the sweet spot.
ConlineD |
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VGfive.com - Game Trading site (Steam codes too!)
Kickstarter "Game Developer"! |
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| 51. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 15:25 |
jamiedj99 |
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| thanks to EA and them pusing origin which screwed my swtor order i shall pirate this as well |
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| 50. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 15:11 |
Warskull |
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Krovven wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 13:39:
StingingVelvet wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 13:16:
No one can really say how many of these "Steam or no sale" people really mean it.
It's true, some of those people will just go through Origin, or another digital distro, or just buy the boxed game. I know I will for BF3. Hardcore gamers will go wherever they need to, to get the game. Casual folks that just see a game get released on Steam and decide to buy it are the people they will lose. 25 million + Steam users isnt something to scoff at.
I imagine quite a few. The only reason I bought BC2 was due to a steam sale. The EA store may put things on sale, but I don't check it regularly. They may not lose out on the initial die hard fans, but I think they will probably lose out on the people who pick it up later when it goes on sale. If they aren't that motivated to buy the game they may buy it on sale, but not go out of their way to sign up for a new service.
When you hit a certain point it is very convenient for all your games to be under one banner.
As for Steam pulling the games, at this point EA knows exactly why Valve pulled Crysis 2. They did the same thing with DA2 because they want to force consumers to make a choice.
Valve is simply asking that both the game and all DLC be available for purchase through steam. That is a reasonable request. No one would have a problem with valve refusing to carry EA games if EA made the DLC only available through Direct2Drive. |
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| 49. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 14:25 |
Draugr |
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Has anyone given this a shot yet? as I understand it this one actually has some challenging fights in it, and there aren't waves in combat... too bad the art style is still around.
Either way, anyone play this and have an opinion yet? |
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| 48. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 14:21 |
StingingVelvet |
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Verno wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 13:33:
I think The Old Republic is an MMO title with a single platform that can't really afford to ignore a user base the size of Steams. EA doesn't have the history or brand appeal of Blizzard franchises on the PC and one failed Star Wars MMO probably has sullied the waters a bit. I think if anything the biggest factor that will decide how well TOR does is what Blizzard does to retain WoW customers this fall. But anyway, we've done that debate to death already and no one has any figures to back it up so its kind of pointless. I think both scenarios have some validity to them.
Fair enough.
See my Apple example below. EA already has the freedom to sell and manage their games, they are doing it right now in fact. Whether they have the ability to fully exercise it in another vendors system is a different story.
I would never say they do, I am just saying they have the right to do what they want and suffer the consequences. If TOR and BF3 don't sell as well as they should have because they are not on Steam then EA have to eat that loss and also explain to their shareholders why they didn't pursue all sales avenues. If the games sell great, the DLC sells great at 100% profit and Origin gains popularity then they will reap all the rewards.
In the end it's a risky decision and consumers will make it a success or a failure. Neither of us knows how many people will really ignore those games if they're not on Steam. Personally I suspect the marketing and names behind those games mean they will be a success without Steam and lose very little. You are of course free to think otherwise. |
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| 47. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 13:40 |
zincthallinide |
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| Thank you for the responses regarding DA:O.. I'll keep on slayin' those pesky darkspawn villain things on into a non-brown |
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| 46. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 13:39 |
Krovven |
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StingingVelvet wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 13:16:
No one can really say how many of these "Steam or no sale" people really mean it.
It's true, some of those people will just go through Origin, or another digital distro, or just buy the boxed game. I know I will for BF3. Hardcore gamers will go wherever they need to, to get the game. Casual folks that just see a game get released on Steam and decide to buy it are the people they will lose. 25 million + Steam users isnt something to scoff at.
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| 45. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 13:33 |
Verno |
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I think The Old Republic is an MMO title with a single platform that can't really afford to ignore a user base the size of Steams. EA doesn't have the history or brand appeal of Blizzard franchises on the PC and one failed Star Wars MMO probably has sullied the waters a bit. I think if anything the biggest factor that will decide how well TOR does is what Blizzard does to retain WoW customers this fall. But anyway, we've done that debate to death already and no one has any figures to back it up so its kind of pointless. I think both scenarios have some validity to them.
See my Apple example below. EA already has the freedom to sell and manage their games, they are doing it right now in fact. Whether they have the ability to fully exercise it in another vendors system is a different story. There is a lot of shifty stuff that companies could get up to if they aren't bound to agreements and I include Steam in that as well. |
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Playing: Path of Exile, Animal Crossing, Tales of Graces F
Watching: Survivorman, Justified, Silent Running |
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| 44. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 13:31 |
Creston |
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Teddy wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 12:54:
StingingVelvet wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 12:37:
I think he means that the CoD Elite thing comes with the maps, but that's not really a sub to play them. You just get codes for them if you are a subscriber. People seem to be utterly baffled by that service and assume it is tons of things it isn't.
The way he put it certainly sounded confused, but do you honestly think that Activision is going to give you all of their $15 map packs permanently if you just subscribe to their Elite service for a month?
Please. They'll do it the Bill Roper Corrolary way. Subscribe and you get the map pack for free, but only as long as you keep subscribing. Unsubscribe for a month, and your map packs go away.
It's also known as the "Fuck you, you piece of shit gamer," way.
Creston |
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| 43. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 13:28 |
StingingVelvet |
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Verno wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 13:20:
Do we have any details on that though? AFAIK it was just a vague Comic-Con quote from a rep and of course they're going to say that when they have so much invested in it. What criteria did they use? I don't think the bar is very high for something to achieve best selling preorder EADM/Origin title for example.
That's certainly true. Still, given how Blizzard games and Minecraft sold without Steam I am willing to believe a hyped product with a lot of marketing can skip Steam and do just fine. EA has the marketing budget and connections to make that happen for all their releases. Would they sell better on Steam? Probably, but to what degree? Enough of a degree to bow to Valve's rules? Who knows.
In the end I just see this as two companies who both want to use their leverage to make more money and have more control. EA want to use digital distribution to have a direct sales line to customers and control their games. Valve want to make sure they are earning from all the new revenue streams. In the end I can't say either is right or wrong, really, though as we discussed before in the end I default to "EA should have the freedom to sell and manage their games how they want." It's not like that comes cheap, they are risking lost sales to do it. |
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| 42. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 13:20 |
Verno |
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Since TOR, available only on Origin, is their highest selling pre-order ever already though... well, who knows, but they might be right.
Do we have any details on that though? AFAIK it was just a vague Comic-Con quote from a rep and of course they're going to say that when they have so much invested in it. What criteria did they use? I don't think the bar is very high for something to achieve best selling preorder EADM/Origin title for example.
Valve is only asking for the DLC to be sold within Steam as well as wherever else it's being sold...to let the end user decide.
Exactly. And while people can make the argument that stuff like Steamworks goes against that spirit(and they may be correct), in this situation I find it hard to see EAs point of view to be anything but profit margin figures. Many developers and publishers wanted those kinds of tools and framework on the PC too, Steamworks wasn't just invented to serve Valve's nefarious purposes or something.
This comment was edited on Jul 27, 2011, 13:27. |
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Playing: Path of Exile, Animal Crossing, Tales of Graces F
Watching: Survivorman, Justified, Silent Running |
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| 41. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 13:18 |
Krovven |
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RollinThundr wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 13:04:
Moral of the story? Valve demands a cut of all DLC. But hey they're Valve, its ok when they get all greedy, people will still blame EA or whoever else.
Are you kidding me? Let's say you are Valve and you are selling EA games on Steam, one day EA turns around and starts putting a DLC store within their games, cutting you out of loop entirely. The game is using Steam's services and bandwidth while that game is running during this DLC transaction. Would you sit by and let EA abuse your system to circumvent you from receiving a percentage? I highly doubt it.
I also see this as Valve protecting it's clients. Purchasing DLC from within game, while running the game through Steam, will undoubtedly lead to confusion with some people. Uninstall the game, reinstall it down the road...guess what, that DLC is not there, you have to download it from another source again...assuming you still can. We have seen EA pull products and enforce download limits from their own digital store in the past.
Valve is only asking for the DLC to be sold within Steam as well as wherever else it's being sold...to let the end user decide.
Making exclusive DLC distro deals with 3rd parties that exclude your other vendors that are already selling that game, is just bad business. If you are going to do exclusive deals, do it from the outset, not after the product is already being sold by dozens of other vendors (referring to Crysis 2).
This comment was edited on Jul 27, 2011, 13:25. |
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| 40. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 13:16 |
StingingVelvet |
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Krovven wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 13:07:
I simply cannot imagine that taking 100% of the revenue from DLC sold outside Steam is worth giving up the lost revenue by selling the game on Steam. It just doesn't make sense to me, but EA rarely seems to.
They're not writing off all of Steam as a loss though, that would be silly. They are estimating the number of people who will actually avoid the game if it is not on Steam and judging they can write off THAT amount. Whether they are right or not is anyone's guess at this point really. No one can really say how many of these "Steam or no sale" people really mean it.
Since TOR, available only on Origin, is their highest selling pre-order ever already though... well, who knows, but they might be right. |
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| 39. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 13:15 |
Verno |
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I think we did this a few days ago but again:
Valve demands a cut for all DLC
No they don't. Valve wants a cut of all DLC sold through their store, not all DLC period. They also want equal access to sell that DLC which I think is reasonable from their perspective. It doesn't take a genius to see what the industry will try to do with DLC revenues increasing so heavily. Recognizing that companies will try to loophole this by leveraging Steam's hard fought userbase and then selling their content through their own stores is probably what lead to this dispute.
All of this hinges on a vague second quote so we don't really know who is in the right or wrong. Yes, people assume EA to be wrong but they have a long standing history of shitty behavior so it's not exactly difficult to see why. Sure, Steam is a business out to make money just like EA but they have a better history with this kind of thing. No one is saying either company is an angel here.
It's a situation a bit like the App Store with Apple, though I cringe to compare either party to Apple. Apple wants a cut from stuff on the store which is reasonable but some companies want to cut out the middleman so they tried giving away or making the apps themselves cheap while directing customers to make actual purchases from them directly. Apple said no way. Who's right, who's wrong? I don't really care for Apple but I think they have a reasonable point. |
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Playing: Path of Exile, Animal Crossing, Tales of Graces F
Watching: Survivorman, Justified, Silent Running |
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| 38. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 13:07 |
Krovven |
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I simply cannot imagine that taking 100% of the revenue from DLC sold outside Steam is worth giving up the lost revenue by selling the game on Steam. It just doesn't make sense to me, but EA rarely seems to.
Fight between EA & Valve...Valve will win. They do not need EA for their physical game distribution. THQ or ZeniMax/Bethesda I'm sure would be very happy to take on the revenue for distributing Valve's boxed copy sales.
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| 37. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 13:04 |
RollinThundr |
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Creston wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 12:52:
StingingVelvet wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 12:49:
Creston wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 12:37:
But under a grandfather clause, you could easily make the argument (if you're EA) that you designed the game to work this way with DLC, and you can't suddenly change your entire set-up because Valve changed the rules.
The DLC just has to be sold on Steam though, it doesn't have to be Steam exclusive or Steamworks. For example the Fable 3 DLC on Steam is basically just Games for Windows Live activation codes sold through the Steam storefront. EA could easily sell their DLC the same way, as Bioware points or as activation codes.
In the end it lends credence to your thought that EA is just fine with Valve pulling their games.
Valve just sold codes? That is just retarded...
Ah well.
Creston
Yep just codes, that you then had to verify via GFWL. Moral of the story? Valve demands a cut of all DLC. But hey they're Valve, its ok when they get all greedy, people will still blame EA or whoever else. |
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| 36. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 12:54 |
Teddy |
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StingingVelvet wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 12:37:
I think he means that the CoD Elite thing comes with the maps, but that's not really a sub to play them. You just get codes for them if you are a subscriber. People seem to be utterly baffled by that service and assume it is tons of things it isn't.
The way he put it certainly sounded confused, but do you honestly think that Activision is going to give you all of their $15 map packs permanently if you just subscribe to their Elite service for a month?
Their only way of managing it would have to be to remove access to the maps if you cancel your subscription, or force you to pay for a full year subscription.
You could purchase the map packs seperately as an option, but I don't buy for a single second that a subscription to Elite will just gift them to you permanently without some kind of big (and expensive) catch. |
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| 35. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 12:52 |
Creston |
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StingingVelvet wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 12:49:
Creston wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 12:37:
But under a grandfather clause, you could easily make the argument (if you're EA) that you designed the game to work this way with DLC, and you can't suddenly change your entire set-up because Valve changed the rules.
The DLC just has to be sold on Steam though, it doesn't have to be Steam exclusive or Steamworks. For example the Fable 3 DLC on Steam is basically just Games for Windows Live activation codes sold through the Steam storefront. EA could easily sell their DLC the same way, as Bioware points or as activation codes.
In the end it lends credence to your thought that EA is just fine with Valve pulling their games.
Valve just sold codes? That is just retarded...
Ah well.
Creston |
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| 34. |
Re: Dragon Age II DLC Released, Game Pulled from Steam |
Jul 27, 2011, 12:50 |
killer_roach |
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Creston wrote on Jul 27, 2011, 12:25:
Okay, I stand corrected then. Though I was more referring to it being on sale for 10 bucks at some point. 
Creston
EA puts their digital downloads on sale on Origin semi-frequently... they've actually been much better about that than most publishers have. (If I were to rank them, it'd probably go EA >> Ubi > THQ >>> Microsoft >>>> Activision.) |
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73 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 2.
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