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More on BF3 and Steam

A note on Develop has further indications that Battlefield 3 will not be released through Steam, as speculation mounts that DICE's military shooter sequel will not appear on Valve's download service. They quote a comment from a report from financial research firm Baird based on a meeting with GameStop: "The upcoming EA title Battlefield 3 will be sold as a download through GameStop, but not through Steam," Baird says GameStop executives told them. "Given Steam's dominance and insistence on users downloading a Steam client application publishers are likely to be receptive to a competitive alternative." Thanks Computer and Video Games.

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297 Replies. 15 pages. Viewing page 11.
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97. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 16:14 Bhruic
 
Weird. I want BF3 to be on Steam. But I understand that that's for my convenience. Acting as if EA has done something wrong because they haven't made things convenient for you seems quite strange. It's not like you are being forced to use a specific other digital distribution system, you still have numerous choices.

Want to buy L4D2? Well, you're out of luck if you want to use something other than Steam. How about HL2? Same thing. In fact, while it's possible I'm missing one, I can't think of a single modern game from Valve that was released on other digital distribution systems. And EA are the bad ones?

Look, I like Steam. I was a reluctant convert, but it's got a lot of nice features, and as I said, it's convenient. But that doesn't change the fact that Valve (and others) have been shoving it down our throats for years. There are numerous examples of non-Valve games that also forced Steam, even if you bought the retail copy.

So please, stop white-knighting Valve on this one.
 
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96. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 16:09 Sepharo
 
Overon wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 15:56:
EA says:
"Steam has imposed a set of business terms for developers hoping to sell content on that service -- many of which are not imposed by other online game services. Unfortunately, Crytek has an agreement with another download service which violates the new rules from Steam and resulted in its expulsion of Crysis 2 from Steam."
Source http://pc.ign.com/articles/117/1176517p1.html

Well that's what I was looking for (not really, thanks for pasting it here) so EA has said it is due to new rules on Steam.

I wish Valve would let us know what/if new rules exist. I'd like to know who I should blame for this, 50/50 isn't as satisfying.
 
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95. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 16:03 Joss
 
Walmart... Walmart will get my business.  
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94. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 15:56 Overon
 
It's time for someone to introduce some critical thinking and reason into the conversation.

We know that EA's Crysis 2 was removed from Steam while there are other older EA titles still on Steam. EA says:
"Steam has imposed a set of business terms for developers hoping to sell content on that service -- many of which are not imposed by other online game services. Unfortunately, Crytek has an agreement with another download service which violates the new rules from Steam and resulted in its expulsion of Crysis 2 from Steam."
Source http://pc.ign.com/articles/117/1176517p1.html
I haven't seen Valve dispute this, please post evidence to the contrary. I think it's reasonable to assume that Valve's silence on the EA statement implies agreement.

Can you blame EA for wanting to create their own service for their own games? It's a smart revenue driven decision. Can you blame Valve for imposing the DLC requirements for their service? It's a smart revenue driven decision. None of the decisions are consumer friendly. They are not doing what's best for the consumer. They both made decisions that are anti-consumer. If all the other download services don't impose the same Valve DLC rules, then that would explain why BF3 is not going to be on Steam. Does it not?

Maybe Valve can change their DLC policy and we can see what EA does. Now that would be fun to see.

By the way, let's be 100% sure that BF3 is not going to be on Steam, from a more reliable source, say the company that is publishing it, EA.

Disclosure: All my games I have are all on Steam, except for Witcher 2 which was purchased through GOG.com

This comment was edited on Jul 18, 2011, 16:10.
 
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93. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 15:47 Will W
 
Nothing like a Steam Love/Hate thread hitting 100 posts to end the work day.  
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92. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 15:40 Alamar
 
Creston wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 14:56:
necrosis wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 14:27:
(-) Mod compatibility not always ensured
Again. Issues with the GAME not the service.
(-) Delayed patches (sometimes massively)
Again. Issues with the GAME not the service.

Actually, those two ARE Steam's fault. Steam sometimes encrypts the .exe which is why most Mods that try to alter the exe (such as the script extenders for Oblivion/Fallout) don't work, and the delay of patches is 100% Steam's fault, because they get given the patch and then have to integrate it into their system.

It's a lot better nowadays, but a few years ago it'd take weeks for the patches to show up because Steam had exactly ONE guy who knew how to do it...

Creston

Interesting spin...

Mod support being broken by steam (or other 'retailers') is still the fault of the developer... Using your example, perhaps modding shouldn't require changes to the exe? : ) Now, if we're talking unsupported mods, I would blame the mod authors ; )

As for patches, I haven't seen any significant delays, but if the developer got the patch to steam earlier, so they could put it in their system, and on 'launch day' flip a switch, that makes sense to me : ) I will admit my ignorance (rare on this site hehe), and say that I don't know who is at fault NOW (2 years ago doesn't matter).

-Alamar
 
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91. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 15:37 Sepharo
 
Giller wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 15:29:
The Cliffnotes version of all this is that EA WILL be able to get away with this for BF3. Unfortunately, its probably going to hurt them in the long run as their other franchises which are not "have to have; AAA" titles. So let the eschew Steam, and its user base for now. People will vote with their dollars in the long run.

It just sucks that they obviously put a lot of effort into going big on PC but now they're going to ignore its largest and best service.

If the game ends up a sales disappointment we all know they're not going be to blaming themselves or this idiotic decision, it'll be PC gamers.
 
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90. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 15:29 Giller
 
The Cliffnotes version of all this is that EA WILL be able to get away with this for BF3. Unfortunately, its probably going to hurt them in the long run as their other franchises which are not "have to have; AAA" titles. So let the eschew Steam, and its user base for now. People will vote with their dollars in the long run.

 
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89. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 15:27 StingingVelvet
 
necrosis wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 15:05:
My only guess is those games are 'granfathered'. Steam changed the rules after these games came out but before Crysis 2 deal was cut. EA ignored the rules so Steam pulled that game.

That makes sense actually. Fable 3 came out after that time and it's DLC is offered on Steam as well as GFWL.
 
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88. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 15:17 necrosis
 
Sepharo wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 15:14:
necrosis wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 15:05:
Creston wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 14:49:
Sepharo wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 14:17:

Is that really it though?

Doesn't EA sell DLC for Burnout Paradise that isn't available through Steam but through their own store? Aren't their other games like that too?

I wonder about that too. The Dragon Age and Mass Effect DLC weren't available through Steam, and could be bought directly from within the game, and Steam didn't have an issue with either one of those. Unless they altered their TOS, it seems strange that for Crysis 2 and BF3 they suddenly have a problem with it.

Creston
My only guess is those games are 'granfathered'. Steam changed the rules after these games came out but before Crysis 2 deal was cut. EA ignored the rules so Steam pulled that game.

Is there an article or announcement about this?
Just an educated guess as Valve has sad nothing about Crysis 2 being pulled.
 
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87. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 15:14 Sepharo
 
necrosis wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 15:05:
Creston wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 14:49:
Sepharo wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 14:17:

Is that really it though?

Doesn't EA sell DLC for Burnout Paradise that isn't available through Steam but through their own store? Aren't their other games like that too?

I wonder about that too. The Dragon Age and Mass Effect DLC weren't available through Steam, and could be bought directly from within the game, and Steam didn't have an issue with either one of those. Unless they altered their TOS, it seems strange that for Crysis 2 and BF3 they suddenly have a problem with it.

Creston
My only guess is those games are 'granfathered'. Steam changed the rules after these games came out but before Crysis 2 deal was cut. EA ignored the rules so Steam pulled that game.

Is there an article or announcement about this?
 
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86. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 15:08 descender
 
"Steam sometimes encrypts the .exe"

Did you burn a hole in your pants with all that BS flying out of them?

I don't mind anything that's going on here, DICE just saved me $60. There is zero chance of me downloading this game through gamestop to support their stupidity.
 
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85. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 15:05 necrosis
 
Creston wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 14:49:
Sepharo wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 14:17:

Is that really it though?

Doesn't EA sell DLC for Burnout Paradise that isn't available through Steam but through their own store? Aren't their other games like that too?

I wonder about that too. The Dragon Age and Mass Effect DLC weren't available through Steam, and could be bought directly from within the game, and Steam didn't have an issue with either one of those. Unless they altered their TOS, it seems strange that for Crysis 2 and BF3 they suddenly have a problem with it.

Creston
My only guess is those games are 'granfathered'. Steam changed the rules after these games came out but before Crysis 2 deal was cut. EA ignored the rules so Steam pulled that game.
 
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84. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 14:56 Creston
 
necrosis wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 14:27:
(-) Mod compatibility not always ensured
Again. Issues with the GAME not the service.
(-) Delayed patches (sometimes massively)
Again. Issues with the GAME not the service.

Actually, those two ARE Steam's fault. Steam sometimes encrypts the .exe which is why most Mods that try to alter the exe (such as the script extenders for Oblivion/Fallout) don't work, and the delay of patches is 100% Steam's fault, because they get given the patch and then have to integrate it into their system.

It's a lot better nowadays, but a few years ago it'd take weeks for the patches to show up because Steam had exactly ONE guy who knew how to do it...

Creston
 
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83. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 14:53 Sepharo
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 14:46:
Sepharo wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 14:17:
Is that really it though?

Doesn't EA sell DLC for Burnout Paradise that isn't available through Steam but through their own store? Aren't their other games like that too?

Games for Windows Live does the same thing too. Still, this is the reason EA have given and Valve have not stated otherwise.

If the reasoning isn't gibing I'm going to assume this is an EA problem and not a Valve problem.
 
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82. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 14:49 Creston
 
Sepharo wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 14:17:

Is that really it though?

Doesn't EA sell DLC for Burnout Paradise that isn't available through Steam but through their own store? Aren't their other games like that too?

I wonder about that too. The Dragon Age and Mass Effect DLC weren't available through Steam, and could be bought directly from within the game, and Steam didn't have an issue with either one of those. Unless they altered their TOS, it seems strange that for Crysis 2 and BF3 they suddenly have a problem with it.

Creston
 
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81. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 14:48 StingingVelvet
 
vyshka wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 14:26:
Baird says GameStop executives told them. "Given Steam's dominance and insistence on users downloading a Steam client application publishers are likely to be receptive to a competitive alternative."


Last I checked Impulse required downloading a client as well. Has that changed with Gamestop taking ownership?

Origin and Impulse both have a client for downloads and patching, but they are not required to play. I quite like that personally.
 
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80. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 14:48 Dev
 
Translation:
"we want you to use our OWN download service so we can get the whole pie, not just a big cut of it"


How many digital gaming download services are out there that don't "insist on users downloading a client application" again? Maybe like 1?
 
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79. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 14:46 StingingVelvet
 
Sepharo wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 14:17:
Is that really it though?

Doesn't EA sell DLC for Burnout Paradise that isn't available through Steam but through their own store? Aren't their other games like that too?

Games for Windows Live does the same thing too. Still, this is the reason EA have given and Valve have not stated otherwise.
 
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78. Re: More on BF3 and Steam Jul 18, 2011, 14:27 necrosis
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 12:18:
Illumin wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 11:49:
Cheap deals for the customer, patches applied to games for the customer, a social service so you and your friends can play together... the ability to quickly and easily re install your games *and game codes are saved without having to write them down...all of this free. Not so much Stockholm syndrome as what some would call loyalty. Give me some examples please of where the customer is getting ass raped as you so intelligently put it?

Steam sucks because I have to download software that organizes my games into a neat list, shows me all updates and DLC that is available for it with out me having to scour the internet or wait in line on Fileplanet or something? Bunch of haters.

Let's see...

(-) Steamworks games that won't run without Steam (no game should force you to install a certain client that is technically not required to run the game)
This is the case with any game that has DRM now a days.
(-) Steam DRM - often times on top of other DRM like SecuROM, doubling the annoyance
Blame this on the publishers not Steam/Valve. They ave expressed their distaste for it but decided to let it go so they could expand. Telling publishers to remove their DRM would mean games would never get on Steam.
(-) Wonky offline mode
Never had any issues here. Either wait till it asks to go offline or force it through the menu options.
(-) Buggy and slow as fuck integrated browser
Must be your computer. Or do like I do. Small mode and never use the built in browser.
(-) Generally poor performance (it's gotten better over the years but still a far cry from a smooth, flawless user experience)
Eh? Its a little client? What do you mean performance?
(-) Spyware features - Steam knows what you play, where you play, when you play, how often you play, with whom you play, what hardware you prefer playing on... you name it. In terms of gaming it knows everything about you
Who is to say other DRM in other games do not do the same? Becides the survey's you have to opt in when the happen
(-) Retarded region locking
Again. This is more on the publishers than Valve/Steam.
(-) Censorship instead of age verification (big negative for Germans and Aussies and others with restrictive gov'ts)
AGAIN. This is on the publishers, government policies.
(-) "Our servers are currently too busy to handle your request - Please try again in a few minutes" = Totally unacceptable message if I want to download and install a game I purchased and own. I must be able to play whenever I want to. I don't give a fuck whether they have to set up a server farm the size of Texas. Not being able to play a game is unacceptable.
Valid. They are working on this.
(-) Mod compatibility not always ensured
Again. Issues with the GAME not the service.
(-) Delayed patches (sometimes massively)
Again. Issues with the GAME not the service.

If any other major player like EA or Microsoft had a negative list like that people would tar and feather them. But Valve gets aways with it "cuz HL was kewl" Rolleyes .
Steam does have its good sides, no doubt, but wouldn't it be much better if like GOG they would just be a decent digital sales platform without a client requirement and all the other peripheral bullshit? Yes, it would.


You really like finding things to bitch about? A good chunk of you listed gripes are directed at the WRONG PEOPLE. You really blame Steam for following GOVERNMENT LEVEL censorship laws?
 
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297 Replies. 15 pages. Viewing page 11.
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