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Sunday Consolidation

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31 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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31. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 18, 2011, 12:07 Suddenly_Dead
 
Jerykk wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 01:23:
Also, the lack of a mandatory hard drive in the 360 was a big limitation.

Yeah, that remains a huge issue even today. Because not all Xboxes have HDs, MS requires that all patches be 4MB or less. You can imagine how problematic that is for developers.

That, and consider the lower amount of memory in the consoles. You can't hold as many things in RAM, so you need to swap assets in and out more frequently. When you do though, you've got to deal with the sluggish disc drive. Much pain.

Beamer wrote on Jul 17, 2011, 23:04:
I also don't get what kind of list someone wants. Nor do I understand how you guys don't realize that the memory overhead on consoles is far, far less than PCs.

I've got several PC games, not even very recent, that use around at least 1 GB of RAM (just system RAM, not even including VRAM) when running. The 360 has what, 512 MB shared RAM?

The 360 was pretty reasonable when it was released, except for the memory thing (and the related HDD thing). That seems to be a frequent limitation among consoles.
 
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30. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 18, 2011, 10:23 avianflu
 

For all of the bombast-level PR at their launch, the current consoles were tragically underpowered.
 
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29. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 18, 2011, 07:18 Dades
 
Beamer wrote on Jul 17, 2011, 23:04:
I also don't get what kind of list someone wants. Nor do I understand how you guys don't realize that the memory overhead on consoles is far, far less than PCs. And it's weird to me that you guys are so hung up that you can't acknowledge that consoles, at launch, are typically pretty damn powerful. They're specialized for one purpose.

Are you going to post some examples of this advantage or not? Working titles, not theoretical. I can theoretically work with up to 32GB of memory in this machine but that doesn't mean it's realistic to expect that configuration everywhere else. Some supposed hardware advantage that lasts a month doesn't mean anything if no one can bring titles to market with it.
 
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28. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 18, 2011, 02:09 Mashiki Amiketo
 
True, but in the long term it probably won't make a difference. We're on the verge of two different divergent computer technologies right now. Those being optronics(optical computing) and standard silicon quantum computing. One has huge leaps in scalability over the other. Each has it's own unique problems too.  
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
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27. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 18, 2011, 02:05 killer_roach
 
shponglefan wrote on Jul 18, 2011, 01:23:
Until ray tracing replaces current raster-based approaches, we'll never have graphics like movie CGI.

Of course, good-quality ray tracing requires at least an order of magnitude higher processing power than its polygonal counterparts do, meaning, assuming Moore's Law holds, you're talking about six years of advancements before you could raytrace something like Crysis 2 convincingly in real time, let alone film CGI.
 
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26. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 18, 2011, 01:23 Jerykk
 
Nor do I understand how you guys don't realize that the memory overhead on consoles is far, far less than PCs.

That's more true of the system memory than the GPU memory. A lot of PC memory is consumed by the OS and programs running the background but that doesn't really apply to GPU memory. The X360 has shared memory between system and GPU, so you could theoretically allocate 512MB to the GPU, but more realistically it'll be limited to 300MB or less. Less GPU memory = lower screen resolutions, lower texture resolutions, less/no AA.

Also, the lack of a mandatory hard drive in the 360 was a big limitation.

Yeah, that remains a huge issue even today. Because not all Xboxes have HDs, MS requires that all patches be 4MB or less. You can imagine how problematic that is for developers.
 
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25. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 18, 2011, 01:23 shponglefan
 
Until ray tracing replaces current raster-based approaches, we'll never have graphics like movie CGI.  
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24. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 18, 2011, 00:17 Mashiki Amiketo
 
space captain wrote on Jul 17, 2011, 22:13:
how much do you love it?
Enough that I want to see blue space rabbits fuck. Probably NSFW, you've been warned.
 
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
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23. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 17, 2011, 23:04 Beamer
 
Yeah, that former CTO of Vivendi is such a pea-brain! No way a former CTO knows ANYTHING about technology!


I also don't get what kind of list someone wants. Nor do I understand how you guys don't realize that the memory overhead on consoles is far, far less than PCs. And it's weird to me that you guys are so hung up that you can't acknowledge that consoles, at launch, are typically pretty damn powerful. They're specialized for one purpose. Even Jerykk can acknowledge a small period of advantage.
 
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22. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 17, 2011, 22:13 space captain
 
how much do you love it?  
Go forth, and kill!
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21. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 17, 2011, 22:05 Overon
 
I love it how pea-brained marketing types are trying to comment on future hardware capabilities and over do the hyperbole.  
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20. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 17, 2011, 21:38 space captain
 
yes, but will it have sex tentacles like Avatar?

because that actually would be impressive
 
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19. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 17, 2011, 21:11 Dades
 
Jerykk wrote on Jul 17, 2011, 20:03:
The Xbox 360 was released in November 2005 and had a GPU equivalent to the Radeon 1900 XTX, which was released in January 2006. So technically, the X360 had about a one-and-a-half month lead in terms of graphical power.

A month with no actual games demonstrating the supposed advantage. Still waiting on that list of titles from Beamer.
 
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18. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 17, 2011, 21:10 Suddenly_Dead
 
Every single generation.

Jerykk wrote on Jul 17, 2011, 20:03:
The Xbox 360 was released in November 2005 and had a GPU equivalent to the Radeon 1900 XTX, which was released in January 2006. So technically, the X360 had about a one-and-a-half month lead in terms of graphical power.

The original Xbox also had an advantage in that regard compared to existing hardware. That's just the GPU though. Consoles seem to always go relatively light on the memory, which is one of the more noticeable problems. Also, the lack of a mandatory hard drive in the 360 was a big limitation.
 
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17. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 17, 2011, 20:09 eRe4s3r
 
Not to mention that the PC *can* do the Avatar graphics, but only for -1- single character.

Thats maxing out the current state of the art GPU's and taking a MONTH to even create (the character/textures/shaders)

The tools to create graphics are the problem, not the hardware. We need something beyond modeling by points, boxes and sculpting, beyond normal maps and unwrapping. At best, a fully procedural texture system so that at least textures and uvw's get out of the picture.
 
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16. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 17, 2011, 20:03 Jerykk
 
Dades wrote on Jul 17, 2011, 18:33:
Advantage? I can't think of a single time beyond the SNES era where consoles have enjoyed an actual advantage in visual fidelity. Name some titles and the PC equivalents they bested.

The Xbox 360 was released in November 2005 and had a GPU equivalent to the Radeon 1900 XTX, which was released in January 2006. So technically, the X360 had about a one-and-a-half month lead in terms of graphical power.

On a side note, it's pretty funny that a James Cameron movie is used once again for unrealistic graphical comparisons. Nintendo did the same thing back with the N64. They said its graphics would be comparable to the CGI in Terminator 2.

This comment was edited on Jul 17, 2011, 20:17.
 
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15. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 17, 2011, 19:32 Wildone
 
Its not just about the machine its about the content that has to be MADE by developers, people dont wanna pay $60 for THIS generations graphics, its gonna be even harder/more expensive to make 'Avatar' quality graphics people and thats not where the industry is headed becus of the economy..free to play and cell phone games are whats huge
so I really don't know where this is all gonna go..
 
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14. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 17, 2011, 19:28 raVen
 
Fion wrote on Jul 17, 2011, 18:13:
How you gonna do that AMD when you are just barely keeping up what Nvidia is doing today?
Like fabbing CPUs with GPUS on die?

This last generation it appeared that NVidia has had quite a bit to worry about, especially with Fermi having such a terrible start.
Edit: With the exception of vendor locked Physics APIs (Fuck NVidia)
 
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13. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 17, 2011, 19:18 Mashiki Amiketo
 
Parallax Abstraction wrote on Jul 17, 2011, 18:42:
Yeah cause the industry isn't having a hard enough time being profitable as it is, now they need another graphical jump to triple their budgets again.
Ah there's room for another 30 or so consoles. No biggie.
 
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
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12. Re: Sunday Consolidation Jul 17, 2011, 18:48 OldScho0l
 
Beamer wrote on Jul 17, 2011, 18:27:
Console HW is always 2-3 years older (at best) than current PC tech when they are released. I'm calling bullshit on this one.

Yes, but the reduced overhead combined with the specific hardware to code for usually gives consoles a graphics advantage that lasts about 6 months or so. Bonus points for the lower resolution making it easier to push more polygons.

I try to always have the best hardware and consoles have never even been close to comparable. When 360 and PS3 came out, the textures were terrible in comparison and no AA. I bought the 360 when it came out and it was already obsolete graphically compared to my PC. They certainly didn't have any advantage. I've been a PC gamer since 1997. :/

Edit: Oh, I forgot that 360 didn't even support 1080p/i. I think that the highest was 720p.

This comment was edited on Jul 17, 2011, 18:54.
 
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