88 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 2.
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Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 5, 2011, 17:28 |
Dades |
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Its a big deal when it prevents paying customers from well... paying. It doesn't keep you from paying. You just pay a bit later. Like I said, you keep using it so why should they change anything? You're not giving them any incentive to change anything. What do they care if you vent on a totally different forum and go right back to buying stuff afterward?
Playing a steam support ticket isn't really going to do much about server issues. They are just going to say something like "try again later." Valve IS aware of this stuff, not 30 mins ago I was chatting with a valve employee who said they were aware of the demand issues from the sales and were working on it. The problem is they should have done this BEFORE the sale, not during.
That peer stuff with hubs is for bandwidth of content serving. While that's a problem too, many of the errors I've been posting in this thread are are from not enough steampowered store servers which ARE under valve's control and CAN be solved by adding servers. You have no idea what the problem is. It could be a problem with the web server, it could be Apache wonking under the pressure, it could be a bottleneck in the I/O backend and about a thousand other things. Fixing infrastructure problems takes time, it isn't something you do overnight on production hardware during one of your major yearly events. Given how Steam has scaled up over the years I don't see them not trying to fix it but now isn't the time, of course it will have to be later. Look at Blizzards backend for WoW and they still have problems. You can't plan for everything and some things have to be solved after the fact.
Posting a ticket with Steam Support does tell them something, it tells them you aren't happy about it. When enough people start complaining things get changed a lot faster than when they never hear from anyone. If you're so chatty with Valve employees you should already be aware of this. |
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| 67. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 5, 2011, 17:18 |
Dev |
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Dades wrote on Jul 5, 2011, 17:09:
Same goes for reserve bandwidth, etc. If they did this every time there were capacity issues, they'd quickly overcome them. Doubling might sound like a lot, but valve has humongous growth rates anyway, they'd need that capacity pretty soon regardless. You keep using Steam despite having supposedly many issues with it. Why should they change anything? You act like this stuff is a big deal but you don't do anything about it. I can't say your attitude about their problems being easy to solve by just throwing money at them is very realistic or knowledgeable either. Valve doesn't have their own dedicated worldwide network in a traditional sense, they peer with major hubs around the world using CDN placement. They can't just magically make all of the peers be able to handle their capacity either. It's amazing it stays up at all under the weight of 20 million users mashing at the same time to see what the sales are while also delivering patches, demos, streaming video and all that shit.
If it's so insufferable then start exploring the problem with Steam Support or stop using it. I can't think of a single service other than Amazon that manages to handle that kind of burst demand without investing hundreds of millions into infrastructure. Maybe Valve does need to investigate more distributed load balancing like Amazon but don't act like that's going to happen quickly, without growing pains or affecting things people like about Steam like the frequent sales. Its a big deal when it prevents paying customers from well... paying.
Playing a steam support ticket isn't really going to do much about server issues. They are just going to say something like "try again later, we are working on it", same kinda stuff you get from on hold phone messages "please hold your call is valuable to us." Valve IS aware of this stuff, not 30 mins ago I was chatting with a valve employee who said they were aware of the demand issues from the sales and were working on it. The problem is they should have done this BEFORE the sale, not during.
That peer stuff with hubs is for bandwidth of content serving. While that's a problem too, many of the errors I've been posting in this thread are are from the steampowered store servers which ARE under valve's control and CAN be solved by adding servers.
And its not 20 million users at same time. http://store.steampowered.com/stats/ Its more like 3 million.
Also, valve HAS the millions to invest in this stuff to fix it if they want to.
You pointed out amazon, I'll point out google. They've made an art of buying inexpensive servers to do the job. Sure the sheer scale means its expensive, but per server their costs are amazingly low.
This comment was edited on Jul 5, 2011, 17:23. |
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| 66. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 5, 2011, 17:09 |
Dades |
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Same goes for reserve bandwidth, etc. If they did this every time there were capacity issues, they'd quickly overcome them. Doubling might sound like a lot, but valve has humongous growth rates anyway, they'd need that capacity pretty soon regardless. You keep using Steam despite having supposedly many issues with it. Why should they change anything? You act like this stuff is a big deal but you don't do anything about it. I can't say your attitude about their problems being easy to solve by just throwing money at them is very realistic or knowledgeable either. Valve doesn't have their own dedicated worldwide network in a traditional sense, they peer with major hubs around the world using CDN placement. They can't just magically make all of the peers be able to handle their capacity either. It's amazing it stays up at all under the weight of 20 million users mashing at the same time to see what the sales are while also delivering patches, demos, streaming video and all that shit.
If it's so insufferable then start exploring the problem with Steam Support or stop using it. I can't think of a single service other than Amazon that manages to handle that kind of burst demand without investing hundreds of millions into infrastructure. Maybe Valve does need to investigate more distributed load balancing like Amazon but don't act like that's going to happen quickly, without growing pains or affecting things people like about Steam like the frequent sales. |
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| 65. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 5, 2011, 16:47 |
Creston |
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Krovven wrote on Jul 5, 2011, 14:41: Don't know what to tell ya Dev. You are the only person I know of that has been having any real issues.
Nah, I've been having the same problems, with the exact same error message. And my downloads have been horrible for the past three days. I can barely attain max download speed (which in my case is a staggering 94k/s) and often it will just stop for ten, fifteen minutes at a time.
I took my laptop to work, seeing if it was different here on my work's fat pipe, and even here I get like 60k/s max.
Valve refuses to pay for enough bandwith because the problems are temporary. They figure it's better to have people get shitty speeds for a week or so, rather than pay 50 extra grand for enough bandwith. Annoying as it is, it's kinda hard to argue with the logic.
Creston |
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| 64. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 5, 2011, 15:25 |
Dev |
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Error 503 Service Unavailable Service Unavailable Guru Meditation: XID: 1194269462 Varnish cache server Now I can't access my wishlist. Edit: Oh wait now I can... but without prices, and without the stuff I just added so I can't rearrange the list.
Krovven wrote on Jul 5, 2011, 15:09: As for the Access Code...can't you just try having it sent again? I've done that 3 times in the last few days and again, no problem. Yeah I tried that again a couple times. Maybe I'll try it today too. I've already got the support email addy on my trusted list but I've been checking my spam folder too just in case, nothing so far.
Krovven wrote on Jul 5, 2011, 15:09: Just doesn't seem like a very big deal to me. I get more page errors just randomly browsing the web. On its own, I wouldn't care much. But when its combined with all the other problems steam has been giving me (I listed a few of them in these posts) that's obviously a result of them not being able to handle the traffic properly, and having this kinda thing been going on for years everytime there's a big sale or release, they really have no excuse. And it especially pisses me off when companies PREVENT me from giving them money.
Its not like they don't have enough money coming out of their ears to deal with this. Upgrade the fracking servers, and get more reserve bandwidth. Valve is the king of stats and they should know by now exactly how much demand they will get on sales and big releases (including estimates for consumer demand growth). Gabe was recently bragging about how they have some of the highest revenue per employee, higher even than google. For companies with lots of extra money, and whose business relies almost ENTIRELY upon internet content delivery, the formula is simple:
Not enough server capacity? Double it. How about now? Not enough server capacity? Double it. How about now?
Same goes for reserve bandwidth, etc. If they did this every time there were capacity issues, they'd quickly overcome them. Doubling might sound like a lot, but valve has humongous growth rates anyway, they'd need that capacity pretty soon regardless.
This comment was edited on Jul 5, 2011, 15:46. |
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| 63. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 5, 2011, 15:09 |
Krovven |
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Dev wrote on Jul 5, 2011, 14:45: Start browsing some publisher catalogs and look at every screen of games they have (especially if they have more than 30) and you'll see that message pretty quick Just for the hell of it I started flipping through all the publisher catalogs. The only one it happened on was Activision...everything else was fine. Hitting refresh, it then loaded fine. So once out of 20+ page/menu navigations just now...and in the last 5 days of flipping through the site it hasn't occurred.
Just doesn't seem like a very big deal to me. I get more page errors just randomly browsing the web.
As for the Access Code...can't you just try having it sent again? I've done that 3 times in the last few days and again, no problem.
As far as I can tell their system is holding up just fine, with a few minor hiccups that are easily dealt with by clicking Refresh.
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| 62. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 5, 2011, 14:45 |
Dev |
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Krovven wrote on Jul 5, 2011, 14:41: Don't know what to tell ya Dev. You are the only person I know of that has been having any real issues. Start browsing some publisher catalogs and look at every screen of games they have (especially if they have more than 30) and you'll see that message pretty quick
My purchase a few mins ago went through fine.
Still haven't gotten that steam access code for my laptop though. They claim in the support page that account access support requests have highest priority. I'm going to try them on a saturday midnight sometime see how long it takes them to respond, pretty sure they won't have fixed the access code emailing thing by the weekend. |
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| 61. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 5, 2011, 14:41 |
Krovven |
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Don't know what to tell ya Dev. You are the only person I know of that has been having any real issues.
I have never tried the Wallet, I've been using PayPal, no issues. Only time Ive had a problem was on day 1 when the sale first started, the Steam store was having trouble loading up. Since then, no problems.
Download speeds dropped a little, but I still get over 1000k sec.
Buddy of mine was using Seattle, then tried Vancouver as his region settings and was having really slow download speeds. I suggested he try Sacremento...and he hasn't had a problem since.
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| 60. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 5, 2011, 14:17 |
Dev |
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To get that steam purchase to work I had to buy it in wallet (BTW, why isn't STEAM WALLET something that a search in the steam store can turn up?) from within a steam game using the shift tab web browser. Thanks valve for preventing me from typing in a URL outside of a game but allowing it inside the game.
Error 503 Service Unavailable Service Unavailable Guru Meditation: XID: 630883625 Varnish cache server Good ole valve. Thats the message I'm getting as I'm browsing todays sales. |
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| 59. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 5, 2011, 09:42 |
Prez |
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| Go Witcher!!! Great to see it #1. |
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| 58. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 5, 2011, 09:33 |
Verno |
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I haven't had any problems using the Store at all except during the initial 20 minutes or so when the sales rollover. Download speeds have been all over the place but those are also influenced by peak time congestion.
Not exactly true blah blah blah, links to community patch Doesn't really pertain to what I was talking about which is the perception that FO:NV is some bug ridden disaster that can't be completed. It has its issues related to scripting but for the most part the showstoppers have been patched up and the game is a steal for $15.
It's usually their writing that annoys me. The same characters, played by the same actors, in the same stories, again and again and again. I repeatedly heard this had 'old school' (i.e. hard) rpg combat, and choices are always nice, so I clicked the buy button and hope to finish downloading before 2013. Dragon Age: Origins is very much a sum of its parts experience. Any elements taken on their own aren't very impressive but together the package is pretty compelling for the most part. |
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Playing: Faster Than Light, Tales of Graces F, Fire Emblem 3DS Watching: Ghost in the Shell, Hannibal, Oblivion |
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| 57. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 5, 2011, 08:57 |
Dev |
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Dades wrote on Jul 5, 2011, 07:52:
and its very annoying to have to wait for longer than usual page loads from steam First world problems. Or how about when I WANT TO GIVE THEM MY MONEY and it sits there saying WORKING on the payment screen for 10 minutes. I've tried this several times this hour now. I want to buy a gift before the time runs out for today in 6 hours, and preferably now so I can get some sleep.
I love it when companies don't want to take your money that you are trying to give them.
Yesterday, when I was catching up on some stuff at the office, I tried to run steam to check sales and buy the fallout vegas DLC. I got caught by that steam watchguard thing on my laptop, which normally isn't a problem. But this time it never sent me the access code, not even 18 hours later. But boy, when I buy something they sure do send me that receipt email within a couple seconds.
Sounds more like 3rd world websites to me.
Are they even bothering to monitor this stuff 24/7 instead of mostly during normal business hours?
This comment was edited on Jul 5, 2011, 09:27. |
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| 56. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 5, 2011, 07:52 |
Dades |
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and its very annoying to have to wait for longer than usual page loads from steam First world problems. |
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| 55. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 5, 2011, 06:11 |
Zadig |
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Slashman wrote on Jul 4, 2011, 11:12: Dragon Age: Origins is actually a great game with meaningful choices and consequences and combat that doesn't require the use of an awesome button. The DLC and expansion seem not to be that great. I didn't buy any of them. But the base game is worth it IMO. It's usually their writing that annoys me. The same characters, played by the same actors, in the same stories, again and again and again. I repeatedly heard this had 'old school' (i.e. hard) rpg combat, and choices are always nice, so I clicked the buy button and hope to finish downloading before 2013. |
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| 54. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 5, 2011, 01:26 |
Dev |
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Krovven wrote on Jul 4, 2011, 12:50:
Dev wrote on Jul 4, 2011, 06:38:
vacs wrote on Jul 4, 2011, 05:16: on a different note: Steam is completely down, no connections can be made to any steam server worldwide. Of course one can still play one's game offline. Come on valve, this happens every big sale or game release, you need to start quadrupling your reserve bandwidth. So going down briefly for maintenance at 5am EST (2am PST) is unacceptable?
Dev, you ranting about Steam not having enough servers, etc, etc is getting a little long in the tooth considering Steam has very very little downtime and even more rarely that it falls during prime-time.
Someone already responded, it wasn't maintenance. I rant about it, because I see it ALWAYS happen, not enough bandwidth (didn't say servers, but it may be that too), for every major game release, and every major sale. Valve releases a big game (such as portal 2) and their content serving slows to a crawl. You almost have to pre-load to play in a reasonable time on day 1, and not all major releases on steam offer that option.
During this sale I've been trying to check which games I already own and which games I'd like to get, and what steam sale achievements I can get, and its very annoying to have to wait for longer than usual page loads from steam.
Valve has talked about their bandwidth before and they've made it clear they have a normal amount they pay for monthly and then a large reserve chunk they pay for too. What I'm saying is that that reserve chunk needs to be much much bigger, even if only for major sales and releases.
If valve ever actually fixes this so they don't slow to a crawl on a big release day, I'll stop ranting about it. I've seen this problem happen for years so I'm not expecting valve to fix it anytime soon. Its funny too, valve has all the stats for steam and KNOWS what they need to fix it. |
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| 53. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 4, 2011, 18:06 |
J |
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Jerykk wrote on Jul 4, 2011, 17:57:
Most of the mods don't really fix much, they just change the gameplay elements or modify cosmetic aspects of the game. That's not entirely accurate. There are tons of community fixes on Newvegasnexus.com. 215, to be exact. There are also a couple of compilations for these fixes, though the one at newvegasnexus is pretty outdated. The one here is more up-to-date: http://www.ravenmodding.terminal47.net/?p=768>lang=en Cheers for that! |
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| 52. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 4, 2011, 17:57 |
Jerykk |
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Most of the mods don't really fix much, they just change the gameplay elements or modify cosmetic aspects of the game. That's not entirely accurate. There are tons of community fixes on Newvegasnexus.com. 215, to be exact. There are also a couple of compilations for these fixes, though the one at newvegasnexus is pretty outdated. The one here is more up-to-date: http://www.ravenmodding.terminal47.net/?p=768>lang=en |
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| 51. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 4, 2011, 16:24 |
Bucky |
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New Vegas for $15 is a steal. I'm finally going to pick up the DLC, since it's a franchise sale.
Frozen Synapse for $12.50 is a damn good price, too. I paid $20 for it, and it's worth it. It's worth mentioning that they still give you an extra copy to give away. Of course, this reminds me that I've got several matches I never finished... |
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| 50. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 4, 2011, 16:00 |
Creston |
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15 bucks for Fallout New Vegas is insane. If you don't buy that, you just don't like RPGs period. Both DLCs are on sale too for 3 bucks. Picked those up.
Also, shit. I bought Trine when it was 5 bucks, and now it's 2 bucks. BASTARDS! I WANT MY THREE BUCKS BACK!
Singularity for 7.50. Hmmm.
Creston
This comment was edited on Jul 4, 2011, 16:58. |
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| 49. |
Re: Steam Top 10 |
Jul 4, 2011, 14:37 |
Esoteric |
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Verno wrote on Jul 4, 2011, 13:17: That Frozen Synapse price finally looks about right, I think I'll bite on that and meh to the rest which I already own anyway. I think some of us are rapidly approaching the steam saturation point where stuff can go on sale all they want but we already own most of it It's a great game, definitely worth it, especially at that price (and you get two copies). |
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88 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 2.
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