52 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 30, 2011, 20:57 |
Ant |
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Krovven wrote on Jun 30, 2011, 13:10:
mlw wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 22:14:
A unlimited trial to only level 20 is not at all what I would call 'Free to Play'. Starting levels fly by in this game.
Agreed. You can get to lvl 20 in 2 hours...maybe 3-4 hrs if you are entirely new to MMO gameplay.
mlw wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 22:14:
This is a scam.
It's free. So what are they scamming again? They removed the time restriction from the Trial...OMFG THEY ARE RIPPING US OFF!!! /sigh
Dang that fast? Man, when I started with WoW beta and first few months release, it was way more than that. |
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| 51. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 30, 2011, 13:10 |
Krovven |
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mlw wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 22:14:
A unlimited trial to only level 20 is not at all what I would call 'Free to Play'. Starting levels fly by in this game.
Agreed. You can get to lvl 20 in 2 hours...maybe 3-4 hrs if you are entirely new to MMO gameplay.
mlw wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 22:14:
This is a scam.
It's free. So what are they scamming again? They removed the time restriction from the Trial...OMFG THEY ARE RIPPING US OFF!!! /sigh
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| 50. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 22:14 |
mlw |
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JohnBirshire wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 10:46:
Removing the time limit on trials is far from going "Free to Play", this is the definition of a sensationalist headline.
I agree. A unlimited trial to only level 20 is not at all what I would call 'Free to Play'. Starting levels fly by in this game. A player will barely be out of the starting zone at level 20. This is a scam. |
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| 49. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 16:42 |
Alamar |
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StingingVelvet wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 15:43:
Jonny5 wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 14:16:
You obviously are not playing the same WoW I am, No grind at all, plenty of fun quests... Sure if your some ADHD boy rushing to get to end to show off your epics..yea then at end it is grind, But I have played since Cata came out one toon, and I am level 65 today, having a blast doing a lot of fun quests and crafting and other fun stuff in game.
WoW is NO grind till ya hit end game!
I played WoW for 50 levels. It seemed like the only real gameplay motivation was to level or get loot. That doesn't do it for me. On top of that player interaction and impact was limited.
I like MMOs that really benefit from being massively multiplayer. Rather than 25 man raids or whatever I like worlds where every player has an effect. EVE, Ultima Online and perhaps Star Wars Galaxies are more MMOs than WoW is, in my opinion.
WoW can be a grind at any level, and it is NOT a grind for some at ANY level...
Personally, I refused EQ 'back in the day' because it was pure grind... go kill 407213048 mobs to get some xp... no goals, quests, etc... they were few and far between... I like the quest (and story) driven aspect that has always been WoW, and classic is like 500x better in those regards, plus it's cohesive.. Some people missing travelling to the other continent and back 3 times just for one quest, but I found that shit annoying, and I refused to grind mobs to lvl up...
Conversely, I enjoy the combat system, and that's a major factor why I level, and have leveled every class (to 80)... None of them were a grind, because I was enjoying the process of blowing shit up, and experiencing the lore... Sure, the first time is the best... Every expansion has added some kick ass stories and quests (bombing runs were the BOMB, heh, when they first hit... very popular)...
This went a bit off track, but I was initially going to bring up WAR because it's a good example, and while WoW still has 1324982048 players, most are sitting in <insert major city> at max lvl waiting to do shit...
Anyhow, Public Quests were a really neat idea in WAR... and levelling up at launch, assuming you weren't too far ahead of the curve, was great... find random people to help punch out a hard/impossible to solo PQ and that felt fun/dynamic/etc... The problem WAR has/had is that they don't adjust well to varied group sizes, so now that the game is a graveyard in 80% of the world at any given time, PQs (one of their major selling/flouting points is wasted)...
That's also one of the big reasons WoW is now soloable all the way, and yes, too easy, a lot of the time... And it's their own fault, along with all the other new breed of massive where levelling is so fast, two months after launch (like Rift a month ago), no one is around to help, so you need a 'high lvl friend' to come knock out an elite, or dungeon, etc...
As for UO, my experience was, and I mean this literally, 'come here and whack on this target dummy until your skills are maxed'... : )
TLDR? WoW is what you make it : )
-Alamar
This comment was edited on Jun 29, 2011, 16:53. |
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| 48. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 16:39 |
nin |
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Conversely, and this is an interesting time regarding this question, a lot of casters, in a month to three, will be crazy OP in pvp because the best weapon in the game, by a pretty large margin (~20%?) will be PvE only, a pain to get, at least early..
I'm not sure we're going to see a huge number of those, but I could be wrong.
I think the last time I pvp'd was Wintergrasp, and I miss it. I loved the huge scale of battles there, when a wall would drop and this huge wall of people would run towards you. I was a cannon junkie. 
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RollinThundr Apr 17, 2013, 12:25: Eh really tossing stuff like that in there only to get your panties all bunched up. If you really want to call that trolling sure.
Mr. Tact Apr 17, 2013, 12:33: Pretty sure that's the definition of trolling... |
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| 47. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 16:35 |
Alamar |
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nin wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 14:50:
Is the honor gear good enough to compete with endgame raid gear?
There have been limited cases where, when pvp gear was easier than farming pve gear, that players will wear a piece (or two, specifically weapons) of pvp gear in place of pve, until a suitable replacement is found. It's certainly not recommended, but it happens.
If you want to do nothing but pvp, you'll find gear that should be comparable to pve. And it'll have resistance resilience, a stat you need in pvp, and only found on pvp gear.
Give it a shot.
Conversely, and this is an interesting time regarding this question, a lot of casters, in a month to three, will be crazy OP in pvp because the best weapon in the game, by a pretty large margin (~20%?) will be PvE only, a pain to get, at least early..
So ya, while I agree, you can compete, and more importantly, have a lot of fun in pvp without touching much pve, if you want to compete 'high end', your would almost be forced to raid...
This was also true last expansion, but for the already seemingly OP plate melee classes...
This was also true long long long ago with warriors/rogues with thunderfury... saw a LOT of that weapon in BGs by the 'end'... Felt good defeating players with obviously higher grade gear... but that's another long ass topic ; ) In short, I enjoyed fighting 80s as a 79 with 'crappy' gear than fully decked at 80... or was it 70/69... or both... Doesn't work as well now since 84 and 85 can be so vastly different (plus like 20k base health difference, that I may be exaggerating 100%).
-Alamar |
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| 46. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 15:43 |
StingingVelvet |
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Jonny5 wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 14:16:
You obviously are not playing the same WoW I am, No grind at all, plenty of fun quests... Sure if your some ADHD boy rushing to get to end to show off your epics..yea then at end it is grind, But I have played since Cata came out one toon, and I am level 65 today, having a blast doing a lot of fun quests and crafting and other fun stuff in game.
WoW is NO grind till ya hit end game!
I played WoW for 50 levels. It seemed like the only real gameplay motivation was to level or get loot. That doesn't do it for me. On top of that player interaction and impact was limited.
I like MMOs that really benefit from being massively multiplayer. Rather than 25 man raids or whatever I like worlds where every player has an effect. EVE, Ultima Online and perhaps Star Wars Galaxies are more MMOs than WoW is, in my opinion. |
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| 45. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 15:29 |
Verno |
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But all MMOs no matter who are making it have the same formula in their games. In the end they all will feel the same way.
I can't really agree with that, some MMOs hide the formula or eschew it completely. Ultima Online had very freeform gameplay for the first 5 years, the skill "grinding" was fairly minimal and could be accomplished through regular gameplay. Planetside was a pretty unique MMO in many ways. Guild Wars 2 seems set to turn some of the usual MMO design formulas upside down with mostly dynamic content design.
If everyone just threw their hands up and said "welp MMOs, cant live with em....!" then we'd likely never see anything ambitious or original which is what this genre is begging for. |
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Playing: Faster Than Light, Tales of Graces F, Fire Emblem 3DS
Watching: Ghost in the Shell, Hannibal, Oblivion |
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| 44. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 15:03 |
Darks |
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Ravener wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 14:45:
Creston wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 11:30:
Here's what I don't get about grinding for gear: Why do you do it? I can see grinding for better loot if that better loot helps you beat specific dungeons and stuff, but it seems that in WoW, you're already DOING those dungeons (or raids, whatever) just to get better gear?
So with that better gear you can then... do that exact same raid with less effort?
That's never really made any sense to me. Admittedly, I've never played WoW, so perhaps I'm just misunderstanding the whole thing.
Creston
There are several tiers of raid dungeons after the level cap. So, while you stop raising your level at 85, you continue raising your item level, through tiers of increasing difficulty, to the hardcore raider status, if you want. Similarly, you can find the level of PvP you enjoy. If you want easy PvP, gank noobs in World PvP. A step up in organization and teamwork is in Battlegrounds. And the hardcore tactical fights are in Arenas.
There are so many ways to play the game, that the problem becomes not that Blizzard doesn't care about your specific gameplay preferences, but that it can take a while to find it yourself.
The other part of this that I think Creston doesn’t understand about the gear grinding is that Blizz keeps introducing higher level tiers on gear to prepare you for the next patch to a new instance or possibly for new add-ons that are coming out so you can start to Raid those areas. I personally don’t care for this type of gear grinding. I know I’ve spent a ton of time doing it and I’m pretty much tired of it.
But as it’s been said, it’s a form and way of keeping players in the game and paying for it.
One of the reasons I’m looking forward to the new Star Wars MMO is that its story driven. I’m enjoying that aspect of the game now. It gives you more of a feeling of playing a single player game rather than grind this and grind that. But all MMOs no matter who are making it have the same formula in their games. In the end they all will feel the same way.
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| 43. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 14:50 |
nin |
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Is the honor gear good enough to compete with endgame raid gear?
There have been limited cases where, when pvp gear was easier than farming pve gear, that players will wear a piece (or two, specifically weapons) of pvp gear in place of pve, until a suitable replacement is found. It's certainly not recommended, but it happens.
If you want to do nothing but pvp, you'll find gear that should be comparable to pve. And it'll have resistance resilience, a stat you need in pvp, and only found on pvp gear.
Give it a shot.
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RollinThundr Apr 17, 2013, 12:25: Eh really tossing stuff like that in there only to get your panties all bunched up. If you really want to call that trolling sure.
Mr. Tact Apr 17, 2013, 12:33: Pretty sure that's the definition of trolling... |
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| 42. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 14:47 |
justice7 |
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for those who have played wow to max level.. i have a question.
I don't care about pve, i could care less if i down the #1 big bad boss in the game... What I care about is PvP. Can I compete gear-wise with other players if i mostly pvp?
Is the honor gear good enough to compete with endgame raid gear? If it is, then I won't ever feel the need to run huge dungeons past the idea of just doing it for fun the odd time. |
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| 41. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 14:45 |
Ravener |
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Creston wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 11:30:
Here's what I don't get about grinding for gear: Why do you do it? I can see grinding for better loot if that better loot helps you beat specific dungeons and stuff, but it seems that in WoW, you're already DOING those dungeons (or raids, whatever) just to get better gear?
So with that better gear you can then... do that exact same raid with less effort?
That's never really made any sense to me. Admittedly, I've never played WoW, so perhaps I'm just misunderstanding the whole thing.
Creston
There are several tiers of raid dungeons after the level cap. So, while you stop raising your level at 85, you continue raising your item level, through tiers of increasing difficulty, to the hardcore raider status, if you want. Similarly, you can find the level of PvP you enjoy. If you want easy PvP, gank noobs in World PvP. A step up in organization and teamwork is in Battlegrounds. And the hardcore tactical fights are in Arenas.
There are so many ways to play the game, that the problem becomes not that Blizzard doesn't care about your specific gameplay preferences, but that it can take a while to find it yourself. |
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| 40. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 14:16 |
Jonny5 |
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StingingVelvet wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 14:05:
eunichron wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 11:56:
The thing I don't get is people bitching about the game because they clearly don't enjoy the concept of MMORPGs.
I love the idea of what MMOs could be and have been on rare occasion. WoW is just a boring level grind though. I don't understand why WoW = MMO anymore than Call of Duty = FPS.
You obviously are not playing the same WoW I am, No grind at all, plenty of fun quests... Sure if your some ADHD boy rushing to get to end to show off your epics..yea then at end it is grind, But I have played since Cata came out one toon, and I am level 65 today, having a blast doing a lot of fun quests and crafting and other fun stuff in game.
WoW is NO grind till ya hit end game! |
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| 39. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 14:05 |
StingingVelvet |
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eunichron wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 11:56:
The thing I don't get is people bitching about the game because they clearly don't enjoy the concept of MMORPGs.
I love the idea of what MMOs could be and have been on rare occasion. WoW is just a boring level grind though. I don't understand why WoW = MMO anymore than Call of Duty = FPS. |
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| 38. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 13:58 |
Creston |
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| NM. |
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| 37. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 12:10 |
Verno |
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Darks wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 10:44:
Read the first posters comments. I’m not sure how much your friend plays the game but the problems all started when Blizz introduced add-ons. It made the lower end starter areas barren and low populated for anyone going out and questing. you were not able to find anyone to help out with the harder quest that required pairing up.
The problem started long before addons when they weighted the game activities heavily on end-game. What attracted people to WoW was not that the repetition and grinding, it was the ease of use and accessibility. They used to weave those aspects of gameplay with well written quest chains and challenging content. They stopped doing that recently (IMHO), that's the problem.
People grinding out multiple toons are doing it for several reasons but that's outside of the scope of what I'm talking about.
Blizzard made it easier to quest and level faster because people were getting sick and tired of grinding out new toons. As for making it easier. Well I guess you haven’t played the newer content or raided it. Because it’s far from easy on Hard Modes.
If you read my comment I was talking specifically about pre-level cap activities. Elitists like to complain a lot about how people don't know how to play but that shouldn't be at all surprising given the ridiculous ease of the leveling and dungeon experiences pre-level cap. That's really the problem with the MMMORPG execution in general, you need a game within a game to keep people paying the silly subscription fees. Instead of making unique or interesting gameplay it's more about stringing the player along because it's difficult to make content for a varied audience.
The thing I don't get is people bitching about the game because they clearly don't enjoy the concept of MMORPGs.
That's your definition and WoW is obviously different things to different people. Saying "oh its not your type of game" is silly when many aspects of it are targeted directly at what you are saying it isn't.
This comment was edited on Jun 29, 2011, 12:16. |
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Playing: Faster Than Light, Tales of Graces F, Fire Emblem 3DS
Watching: Ghost in the Shell, Hannibal, Oblivion |
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| 36. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 11:56 |
eunichron |
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The thing I don't get is people bitching about the game because they clearly don't enjoy the concept of MMORPGs.
Yes, it's about grinding for gear, doing dungeons, doing the same dungeon over and over again until you get that next upgrade, so you can make the current content easier, and be ready for the next content.
It's also about playing along with other people, being sociable, making friends. I've been in the same guild for over 3 years now, I joined them the day that the week before the Sunwell patch. We are a top end guild, we've been consistently in the top 50 for US guilds since Black Temple. Last night we raided Firelands with 25 people and killed up to Ragnaros. After some people had to leave we killed Rag with 10 of our core raiders. It was the most fun I've had playing a game in a long time.
If you're the type that likes to jump in and kill a few mobs by yourself and do a couple quests, then obviously MMOs are not designed for you. |
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| 35. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 11:30 |
Creston |
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Shok wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 10:21:
Once you reach the cap the game changes into getting the best gear you can get. First you get gear upgrades from 5 man dungeons. Then gear from the badges collected from raids/dungeons and turned into vendors. Then once all that gear is attained you get the best gear from 10/25 man raid drops.
Here's what I don't get about grinding for gear: Why do you do it? I can see grinding for better loot if that better loot helps you beat specific dungeons and stuff, but it seems that in WoW, you're already DOING those dungeons (or raids, whatever) just to get better gear?
So with that better gear you can then... do that exact same raid with less effort?
That's never really made any sense to me. Admittedly, I've never played WoW, so perhaps I'm just misunderstanding the whole thing.
Creston |
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| 34. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 11:10 |
nin |
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Also, WoW has 'always' had a trial, which this definition doesn't seem to distinguish the timing of, so WoW is no more F2P than it was...
But the trial was limited in time, right? And now it's not.
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RollinThundr Apr 17, 2013, 12:25: Eh really tossing stuff like that in there only to get your panties all bunched up. If you really want to call that trolling sure.
Mr. Tact Apr 17, 2013, 12:33: Pretty sure that's the definition of trolling... |
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| 33. |
Re: Burning Crusade Free, WoW Free to Play |
Jun 29, 2011, 11:07 |
Alamar |
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Blue wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 10:54:
JohnBirshire wrote on Jun 29, 2011, 10:46:
Removing the time limit on trials is far from going "Free to Play", this is the definition of a sensationalist headline.
Please justify that criticism.
Free-to-play (F2P) refers to any game that has an option of allowing its players to play without paying. Some of these games have both a free version and a Pay to Play version that offers the full version of the game and all of the updates. Free-to-play games with pay-to-play components utilize the freebie marketing technique to draw in a user base with this advanced type of game demo. The term "free-to-play" is frequently heard in the context of massively multiplayer online games (MMOGs).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play
I believe the 'sensationalist' was referring to Blizzard's 'press release'...
As for a wikipedia definition, give me 10 minutes, and then I'll quote the new version, as it's a user edited 'dictionary' : )
Also, WoW has 'always' had a trial, which this definition doesn't seem to distinguish the timing of, so WoW is no more F2P than it was...
-Alamar |
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52 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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