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Op Ed

GameFront - Duke Nukem Forever and Jim Redner’s Balls of Squeal.
The really contentious part of Redner’s argument, however, is the fact that developers should be let off the hook because they “poured thousands of irreplaceable hours” into a game. This is an argument that I’ve seen many times before, that a reviewer needs to consider the feelings of the people who made it. I’d say that’s the last thing a reviewer needs to think about when assessing a game. Like it or not, a reviewer isn’t there to protect developers from feeling sad. This is not pre-school, where everybody gets a star and no child is left behind. This is the realm of business conducted by adults, and if you’re going to turn on the waterworks when your game is trashed, you should not be in an industry where art is produced for public consumption. It’s simply not the place for little princesses made of eggshells.

Joystick Division - Marketing Campaigns Are Doomsday Machines. Thanks Digg.
Duke Nukem Forever is the brightest, recent example of this horribly hilarious phenomenon, but it was preceded by two other first person shooters which enticed us to waste our money this year: Homefront and Brink. Together they form a Trifecta of Terrible. Behold the power of the marketing machine, and tremble.

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67 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
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67. Re: Op Ed Jun 23, 2011, 12:00 ^Drag0n^
 
jacobvandy wrote on Jun 23, 2011, 06:04:
It's unfortunate that some "journalists" are unable/unwilling to evaluate it objectively and decide to print knee-jerk, sensationalist overreactions instead.

It's the only way that "journalists" can sell papers, magazines, and ad time on TV/Web: Create a sensational story through gross exaggeration of the facts that appeals to one extreme, and outrages the other.

Again, another reason I take no stock in Game Rag reviews.

^D^
 
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66. Re: Op Ed Jun 23, 2011, 08:54 Prez
 
I just miss the days when being offended was reserved for times when someone smacked you across the face or spit on your shoes. REAL personal affronts, ya know?

If I believed in putting clever little sayings in my sig, I think I'd use "You do NOT have the right to not be offended."
 
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65. Re: Op Ed Jun 23, 2011, 06:04 jacobvandy
 
To the people that haven't played the game and are going by the gross exaggerations that some reviewers have written -- there are no scenes of alien rape. No alien penises, no forcible insemination on display, it's all implied. You see half-naked women (topless, wearing underwear) bound and immobilized, sometimes hanging upside down. Obviously they're uncomfortable, hence the distressed moaning (not screaming out in pain). If you kill them (a good idea, since they can spawn little baby enemies), Duke says stuff like "Sorry babe, it's better this way" or "Not even I could save you."

You can actually watch a video of the entire level on YouTube if you want to judge for yourself. Yes, it's somewhat harrowing, since we're not used to seeing that in games, but I always applaud developers for pushing the boundaries, so kudos to 3D Realms (Gearbox had nothing to do with it, which 95% of people talking about it don't understand). It's unfortunate that some "journalists" are unable/unwilling to evaluate it objectively and decide to print knee-jerk, sensationalist overreactions instead.
 
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64. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 23:34 Beamer
 
I guess 3DRealms wanted to add some levity to the scenes but ended up making them seem even more inappropriate.

As soon as it hits $9.99 I'll find out.
 
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http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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63. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 22:58 space captain
 
^Drag0n^ wrote on Jun 22, 2011, 22:21:
S.C.--

but you're kind of missing my point:

^D^

no, i totally understand your point.. you arent offended by DNF for various reasons, but you are offended by Kanye West for various reasons.. thats the essential result, regardless of how rational the specific reasoning is

apparently you are missing my point, which ive already outlined twice... but its not a big deal anyways, just an observation
 
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62. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 22:44 Jerykk
 
Several of the reviews say you see a room of girls screaming in pain.

You do, but Duke doesn't make jokes about them. Some of the women actually make jokes about themselves, which is a bit weird. I guess 3DRealms wanted to add some levity to the scenes but ended up making them seem even more inappropriate.
 
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61. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 22:21 ^Drag0n^
 
S.C.--

I'm not passing judgement on Duke, as I haven't played it yet, but you're kind of missing my point: people that buy Duke know what they are getting: nothing I've heard described is less offensive than DN3D or any of the Postal games, especially when taken in context of the game (i.e. the ridiculous).

I take more offense to Kanye West rapping about binding up women, "probing" them, and forcing them to do what he wants because he "owns them." And furthermore hearing 8-14 year old girls repeating his words (because E.T is all over the radio) without even grasping what the lyrics are saying.

^D^
 
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60. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 21:59 Beamer
 
I don't recall seeing that in DNF. Duke only made a joke about the Holsom twins being impregnated and they weren't screaming or in pain. In fact, they were being pretty casual about it, lending to the absurdity of the scene. In fact, they make it sound like it was consensual.

Several of the reviews say you see a room of girls screaming in pain. Again, haven't played, going by what the reviewers think they saw as a way to judge how the reviews were written.

I'd also like to point out Space Captain may have been taken over by a pod person.



This is dickwolves all over again.
 
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http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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59. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 21:09 space captain
 
^Drag0n^ wrote on Jun 22, 2011, 20:41:

Again, see also: "Alien," "Jacob's Ladder," and take a listen to Katy Perry's "ET" (or whatever the hell it's called:

Personally, I find that more offensive than some bubblegum hero in an adult game that kids under 17 can't even buy. And the ringer is they play "E.T." on the radio, and kids sing it without even understanding what Kanye West is saying.

I'd be far more outraged at that.

^D^

so you arent offended by DNF but you are offended by katy perry? yeh thats exactly what i said in the last post... people almost always have lines that you just. cant. cross.

even though its often different from person to person

(within a certain [ridiculous] bandwidth of course)
 
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58. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 21:00 Jerykk
 
The joke wasn't "haha, Cartman got anal probed" the joke is "haha, those girls are being forcibly impregnated by aliens while I watch." And it isn't "oh man, Cartman thinks it's uncomfortable" it's "oh man, those girls are in lethal pain and screaming for help."

I don't recall seeing that in DNF. Duke only made a joke about the Holsom twins being impregnated and they weren't screaming or in pain. In fact, they were being pretty casual about it, lending to the absurdity of the scene. In fact, they make it sound like it was consensual.

The only issue I had with that scene is that it was inconsistent. Duke was supposed to be pissed off at the aliens for abducting and impregnating his women but he seemed pretty nonchalant about the Holsom twins until they actually exploded, at which point he suddenly became enraged.
 
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57. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 20:41 ^Drag0n^
 
space captain wrote on Jun 22, 2011, 20:19:
...in terms of the "average" person, id say joking about rape would probably be taboo... then again the "average" person is quite obviously an exceedingly pathetic specimen - hence glen beck, hence sarah palin, hence rush limbaugh, hence religious fundamentalists, etc. ... and even ol rush believes in "gaia"... did you know that? crazy shit

Again, see also: "Alien," "Jacob's Ladder," and take a listen to Katy Perry's "ET" (or whatever the hell it's called:

Pockets on shrek, rockets on deck
Tell me what's next? Alien sex.
Imma disrobe you
Then Imma probe you
See I've abducted you
So I'll tell you what to do
I tell you what to do (what to do, what to do)

Personally, I find that more offensive than some bubblegum hero in an adult game that kids under 17 can't even buy. And the ringer is they play "E.T." on the radio, and kids sing it without even understanding what Kanye West is saying.

I'd be far more outraged at that.

^D^
 
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56. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 20:19 space captain
 
Prez wrote on Jun 22, 2011, 19:33:
LOL! You got me on that one! I meant to say joking about it isn't taboo. Actually raping someone obviously is and should be. Though if I were to be "raped" by a hot teacher who moonlighted as a stripper when I was a young schoolboy I might not have thought it too bad.

joking about anything should not be taboo but there are always lines you can cross when it comes to mass society as a whole and even individuals who might be more or less open minded in general.. because no matter how "free thinking" a person says they are, there is almost always a limit to how "non-conceptual" they actually are in reality.. and all the promethean types know this all too well

but in terms of the "average" person, id say joking about rape would probably be taboo... then again the "average" person is quite obviously an exceedingly pathetic specimen - hence glen beck, hence sarah palin, hence rush limbaugh, hence religious fundamentalists, etc. ... and even ol rush believes in "gaia"... did you know that? crazy shit
 
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55. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 19:33 Prez
 
space captain wrote on Jun 22, 2011, 19:19:
Prez wrote on Jun 22, 2011, 18:54:
You have a hang-up about rape; it doesn't mean it's taboo.

seems odd... id say rape actually is pretty taboo in most modern metropolitan cultures

LOL! You got me on that one! I meant to say joking about it isn't taboo. Actually raping someone obviously is and should be. Though if I were to be "raped" by a hot teacher who moonlighted as a stripper when I was a young schoolboy I might not have thought it too bad.

BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T LAUGHING AT GIRLS WHILE THEY WERE BEING RAPED!

You know, I was about to give a long diatribe about "context", considering that in this case the girls are in a story in which aliens decided to kidnap all of the earth's hotties and an over-sexed, cigar-chomping cartoon character named Duke Nukem got pissed about it and decided to go save them. Then I realized that the whole thing is ridiculous. If you can't take the jokes in the preposterous context in which they are presented on your own then I'm just wasting my time.

Please, by all means, go on being offended by everything. It doesn't really affect my life one way or another.

This comment was edited on Jun 22, 2011, 19:39.
 
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54. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 19:19 space captain
 
Prez wrote on Jun 22, 2011, 18:54:
You have a hang-up about rape; it doesn't mean it's taboo.

seems odd... id say rape actually is pretty taboo in most modern metropolitan cultures
 
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53. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 19:08 Beamer
 
2) The Alien rape jokes didn't offend anyone when they were about Randy Quaid in "Independence Day". You have a hang-up about rape; it doesn't mean it's taboo. Alien rape jokes are as old as aline sightings and stories of human abduction.

BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T LAUGHING AT GIRLS WHILE THEY WERE BEING RAPED!

The joke wasn't "haha, Cartman got anal probed" the joke is "haha, those girls are being forcibly impregnated by aliens while I watch." And it isn't "oh man, Cartman thinks it's uncomfortable" it's "oh man, those girls are in lethal pain and screaming for help."

This comment was edited on Jun 22, 2011, 19:32.
 
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http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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52. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 19:07 Beamer
 
While I'll readily admit, the whole Alien Rape thing isn't my cup of tea, it's hardly the first time it's been feature in games, art, and Music (those that don't pay attention may want to take a closer listen to the Rap elements of Katy Perry's latest song, "Hypnotized").

Also, Alien "rape" was featured in at least one of the Alien Films as well as "Jacob's Ladder." It's appears to be a common horror element as it is something that women find universally scary. Which, I believe, is the purpose of horror.


Yes, and Schindler's List featured the systematic genocide of an entire race, yet I wouldn't compare it to a stand up comedian making jokes about the Holocaust.
 
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51. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 18:54 Prez
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 22, 2011, 17:42:
Funny - I don't remember gamers (or game reviewers) harassing 3d Realms or Apogee for being "shitty people" in 1996 when the original came out. We all laughed at non-gamers with thin skins who did that.

How times have changed

1) Indeed, times have changed. That's what times do. In 1967 interracial marriage was illegal in Virginia. Man, times sure have changed. Oh yeah, until 1979 Virginia we were sterilizing women we thought had mental issues.

2) How many rape jokes were in Duke Nukem 3D again?

1) Times have changed because people have become hyper-sensitive about everything. And you may not want to admit it, but you are older and more crotchety than you were in '96.

2) The Alien rape jokes didn't offend anyone when they were about Randy Quaid in "Independence Day". You have a hang-up about rape; it doesn't mean it's taboo. Alien rape jokes are as old as aline sightings and stories of human abduction.
 
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50. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 18:26 Cutter
 
You spend your money you take your chances. It's one thing to take a cute chick out to dinner and hope it goes well and you may get some play from it, but don't expect it. You want to spend your money and make certain it's a sure thing you pay a whore. That's fair and there's no confusing the two. Journalism vs. advertorial.

 
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49. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 18:07 ^Drag0n^
 
Tumbler wrote on Jun 22, 2011, 17:57:
That game was created by people who just wanted to have fun, this feels more like it was created by people who wanted to make money and took all the jokes and stupidity to the extreme.

Duke Nukem forever is the last guy. Funny, funny, funny, WTF!?

The game was created by the same company. People are way overestimating what Gearbox did here: these assets, story line, and artwork all came from Broussard's (now defunct) company; Gearbox just glued it together. Hell, Pitchford even said that the intent was to release the game as the 3DR devs originally conceived it (sic.) back when Gearbox first announced they had bought the assets last fall.

Amazing how short term memory the media has right now. AADD working it's way up.

^D^

 
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48. Re: Op Ed Jun 22, 2011, 18:02 ^Drag0n^
 
LMAO @CJ: No, I'll pass on the Alien Backdoor treatment, thank you.  
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