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Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned

Square Enix announces the release of Dungeon Siege III for Windows, Xbox 360, and PlayStation 3, offering Obsidian Entertainment's new installment in this action/RPG franchise originated by Gas Powered Games. This launch trailer (slash commercial) celebrates the news, and here's a portion of the announcement:

In Dungeon Siege III, players assume the role of one of four heroes, fighting for the sake of their fallen comrades to restore the kingdom of Ehb. Conflict is constant in this action-RPG and decisions have lasting consequences, allowing players to alter the epic storyline. Fight to restore the 10th Legion with up to three friends via online co-op play. Dungeon Siege III allows for two players to experience the story from start to finish in local co-op mode. Thanks to robust cooperative AI, Dungeon Siege III allows players to seamlessly drop in and out of battle without interrupting the action or impacting the campaign.

Also, there's an interview about the game on Eurogamer.net where Nathaniel Chapman talks of enhancing the PC controls of this once-PC-exclusive franchise: "If there are PC gamers who are having a negative reaction it's less about what the combat is, it's more how the combat controls," the game's lead designer told them. "Actually this is one thing I would have liked to have spent more time on, and we are actually spending time on now. Basically, as long as PC gamers have a good way to control the combat they will enjoy it. One review - I can't remember which - said if you play with a game pad the combat is great, so right now we're working on improving the PC controls through an update."

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43. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 22, 2011, 08:25 Alamar
 
zerobytes wrote on Jun 21, 2011, 19:03:
Alamar wrote on Jun 21, 2011, 16:05:
So in the end, what is it you guys don't like about the controls on PC?

They want me to unlearn my usual control scheme and get used to what someone else considers the ideal configuration. And it isn't just about the keys that rotate your character. It's the placement of the keys on the keyboard and the use of an upside down T scheme. I simply can't play comfortably with that and it's unacceptable for a developer to expect me to. A flash game, yes, but not a AAA title.

Agreed, and I intended to, but forgot to, mention originally, that I agree wholeheartedly that the lack of control customization in this game, and just about every other Action RPG sucks... Though for me, it's the old style that hurts... I want to use the keyboard to move, and most Action RPGs don't just miss that customization, it's just not a possibility.

Also, and while this isn't exactly a 'complaint', I did continually ask myself why DS3 was a DS at all. It seems more to cash in on the name, than to maintain anything from the lore, other than it being on the same planet, and a few backstory comments.

-Alamar
 
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42. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 22:07 Dades
 
entr0py wrote on Jun 21, 2011, 19:40:
Also, the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance series, a console exclusive overhead hack and slash, was quite successful critically and commercially. If Interplay hadn't gone bankrupt I'm sure it would have continued. I think console gamers would warm to the genere, there just haven't been any decent entries these last few years.

This game certainly won't change their mind though.
 
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41. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 20:25 Jerykk
 
Any Marvel Ultimate Alliance got a sequel, which I assume means the original sold well. The sequel didn't even come to PC.

I'm pretty sure the Ultimate Alliance games only sold because of the Marvel license and the fact that you could play as pretty much every character from that universe. Take away the license and I don't think the games would have sold nearly as well.
 
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40. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 20:15 StingingVelvet
 
entr0py wrote on Jun 21, 2011, 19:40:
Also, the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance series, a console exclusive overhead hack and slash, was quite successful critically and commercially. If Interplay hadn't gone bankrupt I'm sure it would have continued. I think console gamers would warm to the genere, there just haven't been any decent entries these last few years.

True... that Champions of Norrath game as well from Sony. Any Marvel Ultimate Alliance got a sequel, which I assume means the original sold well. The sequel didn't even come to PC.
 
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39. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 19:49 Cutter
 
It's one thing to create a console game and then port it to the PC. But if you're going to do such a half-assed job that when it ships your only response is that you'll eventually getting around to doing another half-assed job to ensure minimum playability, then you can't really expect any PC gamer to really give a shit about your game, much less buy it, right?

You have only yourselves to blame.
 
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38. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 19:40 entr0py
 
Also, the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance series, a console exclusive overhead hack and slash, was quite successful critically and commercially. If Interplay hadn't gone bankrupt I'm sure it would have continued. I think console gamers would warm to the genere, there just haven't been any decent entries these last few years.  
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37. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 19:14 StingingVelvet
 
Jerykk wrote on Jun 21, 2011, 18:02:
But money talks (which also answers your question above, coincidentally).

Except that only makes sense if DS3 were to sell more on consoles than on PC. I don't think any console hack 'n slash has sold more than PC ones. Consoles own a larger overall market share, yes, but only for certain genres. Hack 'n slash is not one of those.

Well... this kind of overhead RPG hack n' slash anyway. And I would guess their goal was to change that.
 
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36. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 19:03 Killswitch
 
Alamar wrote on Jun 21, 2011, 16:05:
So in the end, what is it you guys don't like about the controls on PC?

They want me to unlearn my usual control scheme and get used to what someone else considers the ideal configuration. And it isn't just about the keys that rotate your character. It's the placement of the keys on the keyboard and the use of an upside down T scheme. I simply can't play comfortably with that and it's unacceptable for a developer to expect me to. A flash game, yes, but not a AAA title.
 
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35. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 18:11 Ant
 
Acleacius wrote on Jun 21, 2011, 14:19:
Creston wrote on Jun 21, 2011, 13:37:
Oh wait, I forget. It's the publisher's fault.

Creston
Your certainly a funny guy, pretending like it's a contracted developer who calls the shots, does the Q&A, makes patch/repair list and decides the platform priorities.
Q&A = question and answer?
 
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34. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 18:07 Prez
 
What baffles me is that a company has the gall to charge full price for the PC version of a game that is simply not optimized for the PC, and is in fact basically an afterthought or throwaway.

Given the obvious lack of concern given the PC version, expecting PC gamers to pay full price is insulting in my opinion.
 
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33. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 18:02 CJ_Parker
 
RollinThundr wrote on Jun 21, 2011, 17:45:
Oh yeah I'm sure they wanted to rush DA2 out the door in 18 months half baked making tons of game mechanics changes, streamlining the fuck out of it, and having a framed narrative that falls flat on it's face in many places.

That was Bioware's goal all along right? The idea that Bioware has any control at this point of it's release schedules is laughable at best.

Aw how cute. Touched the nerve of a BioWare fanboi there, did I? Oopsie.

First, you do realize that we were previously talking about Dragon Age: Origins, right? You also realize that there is a difference between Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2, namely that the second part is actually the sequel to the first part and thus they are not the same, right? Second, you do realize that I posted a developer quote, you know, a quote of a person working at BioWare in a high level position with actual insight which incidentally is the opposite of a foaming at the mouth EA hater like you? Ya gotz allz that? Wow. Good boy. Now let's do it 1 + 1 = ...?

 
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32. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 18:02 Jerykk
 
But money talks (which also answers your question above, coincidentally).

Except that only makes sense if DS3 were to sell more on consoles than on PC. I don't think any console hack 'n slash has sold more than PC ones. Consoles own a larger overall market share, yes, but only for certain genres. Hack 'n slash is not one of those.
 
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31. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 17:55 Bhruic
 
As for DS3, Square/Obsidian made a big mistake in designing it for consoles instead of PC. The series had an established fanbase on the PC. The hack 'n slash genre as a whole has an established fanbase on PC. Why then would they choose to design the game for consoles where these fanbases either don't exist or are much smaller?

That's a rhetorical question, right?

The thing that I find the most sad about it, which has been said before but demonstrated again, is just how badly these companies screw up games trying to change them to "accomodate" the console market. I have no problem with companies that have games they want to multi-publish modifying aspects of the game to work better on specific platforms. But don't ruin the game to do so. DNF's 2 weapon limitation is probably the best modern example. I really wish developers were able to just say "fuck it" and take the extra couple months to tweak each system to perform at its best, instead of half-assing things.

But money talks (which also answers your question above, coincidentally).
 
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30. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 17:45 RollinThundr
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Jun 21, 2011, 17:26:
necrosis wrote on Jun 21, 2011, 17:14:
Then again it was a PC game from the ground up without a thought about a console version till EA bought Bioware, demanded a console version, and delayed the PC version 6 months when it was DONE because they were worried about console sales.

This, my poor uninformed friend, is 100% grade A bullshit. Here's the un-bullshitted version (scroll down to comment #48) straight from the horse's mouth with the horse being BioWare's Live Team Producer Derek French who posted on these very forums:

If you have had any experience with a BioWare game launch I can firmly state that all delays and target platforms rest solely at the discretion of BioWare. We chose to delay the game. We chose the platforms we want it to be on. EA acquired BioWare and Pandemic about 2 years ago and they have been supportive about our decisions, not the cause of them. We are doing exactly what we want to do on this project.

Derek French
Technical Producer, Live Team
BioWare

Ya got that, n00b?


Oh yeah I'm sure they wanted to rush DA2 out the door in 18 months half baked making tons of game mechanics changes, streamlining the fuck out of it, and having a framed narrative that falls flat on it's face in many places.

That was Bioware's goal all along right? The idea that Bioware has any control at this point of it's release schedules is laughable at best.

 
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29. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 17:35 Jerykk
 
If you have had any experience with a BioWare game launch I can firmly state that all delays and target platforms rest solely at the discretion of BioWare.

Jade Empire and Mass Effect beg to differ. Both were originally published by Microsoft and as such, they were Xbox exclusives. It wasn't until their exclusivity clause expired and another publisher jumped in that the games were released on other platforms.

To claim that EA, the company that owns Bioware and funds its games, has no say in target platforms or release dates is patently absurd.

As for DS3, Square/Obsidian made a big mistake in designing it for consoles instead of PC. The series had an established fanbase on the PC. The hack 'n slash genre as a whole has an established fanbase on PC. Why then would they choose to design the game for consoles where these fanbases either don't exist or are much smaller?

Perhaps all their testers were just as childish and quit their jobs in a tantrum instead of specifying what sucked...

That's not quite how it works. People outside of the industry tend to hold the misconception that QA is responsible for a game's quality. This is untrue. They are simply responsible for finding bugs and providing feedback. It's up to the developers to fix these bugs and address the feedback. I'm sure there were plenty of complaints about the PC controls, but the devs chose not to address them, probably due to the PC port being rushed. I can pretty much guarantee that every major design flaw in every game has been brought up by QA at some point but again, it's up to the designers to actually make the change.

This comment was edited on Jun 21, 2011, 17:48.
 
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28. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 17:26 CJ_Parker
 
necrosis wrote on Jun 21, 2011, 17:14:
Then again it was a PC game from the ground up without a thought about a console version till EA bought Bioware, demanded a console version, and delayed the PC version 6 months when it was DONE because they were worried about console sales.

This, my poor uninformed friend, is 100% grade A bullshit. Here's the un-bullshitted version (scroll down to comment #48) straight from the horse's mouth with the horse being BioWare's Live Team Producer Derek French who posted on these very forums:

If you have had any experience with a BioWare game launch I can firmly state that all delays and target platforms rest solely at the discretion of BioWare. We chose to delay the game. We chose the platforms we want it to be on. EA acquired BioWare and Pandemic about 2 years ago and they have been supportive about our decisions, not the cause of them. We are doing exactly what we want to do on this project.

Derek French
Technical Producer, Live Team
BioWare

Ya got that, n00b?

 
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27. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 17:14 necrosis
 
Overon wrote on Jun 21, 2011, 16:01:
Would a developer release a multiplatform title and have poor gamepad support on the consoles? I would like to see that happen.
Dragon Age: Origins

Most of my friends only game on consoles. I was loving this game and they were cursing it. I think most reviews of DA:O on console said this too.

Then again it was a PC game from the ground up without a thought about a console version till EA bought Bioware, demanded a console version, and delayed the PC version 6 months when it was DONE because they were worried about console sales.
 
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26. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 17:12 StingingVelvet
 
My easy going self is just going to plug a pad in and play that way if I start before a control fix comes out. That said it is ABSOLUTELY UNFORGIVABLE to release a PC game with no remapping what-so-ever. The fact Obsidian, a generally PC knowledgeable company, would do it... baffling.  
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25. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 16:28 Verno
 
Seems to me, it's likely they had testers like the posters in this forum... I can't find a complaint about how the controls are bad, just people ranting, cursing, going off the deep end about how bad this company/product/blah blah is, without any details... Perhaps all their testers were just as childish and quit their jobs in a tantrum instead of specifying what sucked...

Actually a few of us have been pretty specific both about the controls and what we dislike about the game in the several threads there have been about this game. Dungeon Siege games have typically featured tuned party control which makes this game even more puzzling, so its understandable how some people are upset with what they received. I don't even think its a "bad" game, it's just very flawed and forgettable. In attempting to straddle a line between Diablo and Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance they didn't really find the formulas that made both of those games enjoyable in their own right.
 
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24. Re: Ships Ahoy - Dungeon Siege III, PC Control Fixes Planned Jun 21, 2011, 16:13 noman
 
jacobvandy wrote on Jun 21, 2011, 15:40:
I severely doubt they will be doing anything more than adding a controls section in the menu to let you rebind keys. I guess I might as well play with the 360 controller then. You can't click on anything with the mouse, so what's the point of having it?

That's a good point. The combat itself and the world interaction is remarkably different than other action/RPG games like Diablo, Titan Quest or even the earlier DS titles. The mouse click is basically tied to weapon swing. You can't click on enemies. In many ways, the combat is like other button-mashers such as Devil May Cry, except that there are a few more tactical choices.

From the same interview,

Personally, the combat system. I'm really happy that people seem to be getting into and enjoying the core mechanics, like the blocking, dodging, the power meters and all the abilities. That's really satisfying to me personally.

So if someone is not into this type of combat mechanics, then no amount of tweaked mouse controls will help change that situation.

They also said, why the combat was changed......

There were two main things that motivated it. One was, in bringing the game over to consoles, we really needed it to play in an exciting way on a console controller. It was very difficult to take the party management aspect of the earlier games and... it just didn't mesh well with the console controls.

In general, one of the criticisms of the first Dungeon Siege was that it kind of played itself. We wanted to make a really active experience and put a lot of emphasis on the 'action' in 'action RPG'. We wanted to ensure you never felt like the game was too automated. We really wanted it to feel like you were always directly controlling your character, and how you controlled your character really mattered and affected the outcome of combat.

I can't recall any action/RPG with these type of combat mechanics on PC. I think this thing above all else is creating these diverse opinions. I'd probably try the demo again, plugging in the Logitech F510 controller and see if the button-mashing combat has some merit or not.
 
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