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On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures

The Bash and Slash Forums have details on how dedicated servers will work for Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad, Tripwire Interactive's upcoming military shooter sequel. According to the explanation of someone claiming to be a member of the beta team, the game will support both ranked and unranked servers. Anyone can run either kind of server, though Tripwire will be monitoring ranked servers, and will boot them if they engage in shenanigans. Also, a post on PBBans based on a TWI conference on competitive gaming explains the game's anti-cheating plans (thanks Joao). Word is:

This is the first game (That I know of) to use both VAC and PunkBuster. I'm very happy that Tripwire decided to use both because I know the competitive community prefers using PunkBuster because of the additional functionality and streaming. Tripwire has gained a lot of my respect for listening to competitive gamers and PC gamers in general.

Lets hope other developers that favor VAC will see the light and offer players a choice in anti-cheat.

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44 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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44. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 21, 2011, 14:33 SectorEffector
 

Yes, it is incredible, full destruction in UE3

You just proved me wrong AND made my day.

I love tripwire, esp after I realized they talk to their customers on the forums. +1

I hope it doesn't look super prefabbey, Bad company 2 came off that way at times, but then I guess theres no way around it.
 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Q2iICtlIc
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43. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 21, 2011, 11:59 ASeven
 
SectorEffector wrote on Jun 20, 2011, 17:34:
DangerDog wrote on Jun 20, 2011, 14:29:
ASeven wrote on Jun 20, 2011, 05:32:
DangerDog wrote on Jun 19, 2011, 23:18:
I do look forward to seeing what kind of destruction they implement in RO, hopefully it goes a little bit further than just breaking windows, but I'm not expecting any building collapses (not even the pre animated ones like in Bad Company 2).

Any building in the game can be leveled to the tiniest destruction like any fence in the game can be destroyed. You can level pretty much anything in the game.

First I've heard of this, in the interview they had not long ago on Bash and Slash they only said it would have micro destruction.

You're correct, this game in no way has fully destructible environments. I've seen zero coverage with clips showing "any building in the game" being leveled.

It would be incredible if they had that.

THen I'm sorry to say you're dead wrong. Not only has tripwire announced anything in this game can be leveled, they previewed an alpha of it in one of the recent shakycams videos where they use a tank to level a building.

Tripwire announced this since the beginning in fact, artillery could level anything. Only a couple of months ago did they announced any weapon can also level anything if its poweful enough. Tanks, grenades, etc.

Yes, it is incredible, full destruction in UE3
 
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42. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 20, 2011, 17:34 SectorEffector
 
DangerDog wrote on Jun 20, 2011, 14:29:
ASeven wrote on Jun 20, 2011, 05:32:
DangerDog wrote on Jun 19, 2011, 23:18:
I do look forward to seeing what kind of destruction they implement in RO, hopefully it goes a little bit further than just breaking windows, but I'm not expecting any building collapses (not even the pre animated ones like in Bad Company 2).

Any building in the game can be leveled to the tiniest destruction like any fence in the game can be destroyed. You can level pretty much anything in the game.

First I've heard of this, in the interview they had not long ago on Bash and Slash they only said it would have micro destruction.

You're correct, this game in no way has fully destructible environments. I've seen zero coverage with clips showing "any building in the game" being leveled.

It would be incredible if they had that.
 
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41. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 20, 2011, 14:29 DangerDog
 
ASeven wrote on Jun 20, 2011, 05:32:
DangerDog wrote on Jun 19, 2011, 23:18:
I do look forward to seeing what kind of destruction they implement in RO, hopefully it goes a little bit further than just breaking windows, but I'm not expecting any building collapses (not even the pre animated ones like in Bad Company 2).

Any building in the game can be leveled to the tiniest destruction like any fence in the game can be destroyed. You can level pretty much anything in the game.

First I've heard of this, in the interview they had not long ago on Bash and Slash they only said it would have micro destruction.
 
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40. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 20, 2011, 10:23 HorrorScope
 
PHJF wrote on Jun 19, 2011, 23:55:
I'm not saying anything about PB's ability or inability to effectively stop cheating in games where it is employed. I'm saying PB is a piece of shit app because in the last handful of games I've attempted to play which included PB, PB directly prevented me from playing the game at all at one point or intermittently. AFAIK I still can't play Bad Company 2 because PB booted me from almost every game after less than five minutes of play.

Yep, to be honest imo PB doesn't get enough heat directed at it. I have had many more problems with Punk Buster then DRM. DRM we dream of worst case scenarios much more then actually live them. PB kicks too many legit people out of games and they can't play, you can't tell me that's a huge no-no on the dev's part and a lot of frustration on the players. I don't know how this goes as under-whined about on the internets. This app ranks in the low GFWL satisfaction range at times.

And agreed with the services part as well.
 
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39. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 20, 2011, 08:45 Verno
 
I've had nothing but problems with Punkbuster in most games over the years. It's usually easily fixed but it's still a constant annoyance. It doesn't really seem to do anything either, I've very rarely seen anyone kicked or banned because of it. In fact most of the time the people who get dropped are because the service didn't correctly configure itself or something.  
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Playing: Divinity Original Sin, Infamous Second Son, Madden
Watching: Spartan, Possible Worlds, The Changeling
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38. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 20, 2011, 07:54 Bhruic
 
You guys are making a thinking mistake. You are making the "all or nothing" fallacy. Just because PB cannot stop EVERY cheat does not mean it does not stop any cheat. It raises the bar and that automatically means less cheating.

No, we'd be making the "all or nothing" fallacy is we said "Screw PB, don't use anything". But since the options being presented are PB or VAC, having a preference for VAC because it screws up less than PB does is not in any way an "all or nothing" fallacy.
 
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37. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 20, 2011, 06:59 Dades
 
Overon wrote on Jun 19, 2011, 22:56:
You guys are making a thinking mistake. You are making the "all or nothing" fallacy. Just because PB cannot stop EVERY cheat does not mean it does not stop any cheat. It raises the bar and that automatically means less cheating.

You are making a thinking mistake. You are making the "all or nothing" assumption about what everyone else is thinking. Just because PB stops a single cheat doesn't mean it doesn't also interfere with user operations, require constant tinkering and stop few cheats at all for the trouble it causes.

Since computers are deterministic machines, there are reasons why this is happening to you. It's not magic and you should look into them.

I'm sure he'll take that vague, fortune cookie advice straight to the bank.
 
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36. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 20, 2011, 06:48 007Bistromath
 
Overon wrote on Jun 20, 2011, 01:51:
Since computers are deterministic machines, there are reasons why this is happening to you. It's not magic and you should look into them.

Those are the words of somebody who has never had to debug a program or resolve a hardware issue more complex than improper seating, of that I am certain.
 
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35. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 20, 2011, 05:32 ASeven
 
DangerDog wrote on Jun 19, 2011, 23:18:
I do look forward to seeing what kind of destruction they implement in RO, hopefully it goes a little bit further than just breaking windows, but I'm not expecting any building collapses (not even the pre animated ones like in Bad Company 2).

Any building in the game can be leveled to the tiniest destruction like any fence in the game can be destroyed. You can level pretty much anything in the game.
 
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34. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 20, 2011, 01:51 Overon
 
PHJF wrote on Jun 19, 2011, 23:55:

You guys are making a thinking mistake. You are making the "all or nothing" fallacy. Just because PB cannot stop EVERY cheat does not mean it does not stop any cheat. It raises the bar and that automatically means less cheating.

I'm not saying anything about PB's ability or inability to effectively stop cheating in games where it is employed. I'm saying PB is a piece of shit app because in the last handful of games I've attempted to play which included PB, PB directly prevented me from playing the game at all at one point or intermittently. AFAIK I still can't play Bad Company 2 because PB booted me from almost every game after less than five minutes of play.
Since computers are deterministic machines, there are reasons why this is happening to you. It's not magic and you should look into them.
 
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33. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 19, 2011, 23:58 eRe4s3r
 
The UE3 Engine only has even remotely comparable destruction when you have a PHYSX gpu. Which means anyone on an ATI card is looking at CPU physics, which means no game, will ever do full scale physics like that in an UE3 engine game. Particularly not with soft-bodies.

The Frostbite 2.0 and GeoMod 2.0 Engine both support full network syncable non-physX and non-gpu dependent destruction, including terrain deformation (frostbite only) (something the UE3 engine does not in fact support at all) with a cpu only implementation.

This has far reaching implications. A modern server for hosting games does not have a PhysX capable gpu nor in most cases even a dedicated gpu. That means unlike in BC2 (where the server calculates ALL important physics) the UE3 engine needs a game server to be hosted quite literally on an super-high-end gaming rig with probably multiple physX dedicated GPU's, and then at best can serve 12 or 8 players.

While i think this would allow for great physics indeed, in reality you'll see a game like BF3 doing this kind of stuff with 64 players and on HUGE maps. Because its not physX dependent destruction.

 
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32. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 19, 2011, 23:55 PHJF
 

You guys are making a thinking mistake. You are making the "all or nothing" fallacy. Just because PB cannot stop EVERY cheat does not mean it does not stop any cheat. It raises the bar and that automatically means less cheating.

I'm not saying anything about PB's ability or inability to effectively stop cheating in games where it is employed. I'm saying PB is a piece of shit app because in the last handful of games I've attempted to play which included PB, PB directly prevented me from playing the game at all at one point or intermittently. AFAIK I still can't play Bad Company 2 because PB booted me from almost every game after less than five minutes of play.
 
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31. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 19, 2011, 23:18 DangerDog
 
Dev wrote on Jun 19, 2011, 23:11:
DangerDog wrote on Jun 19, 2011, 17:07:
Unreal Engine 3 tech is pretty old and tired, the lack of destruction alone puts it in second place to BF3.
So, you've seen this video then? Made with latest march 2011 iteration of unreal engine 3 and NOT pre-rendered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgS67BwPfFY

And it DOES have destruction.
I suggest you read over the feature list here:
Text for your Link

This was brought up last time it was discussed too, and a number of people debunked the "no destruction" myth.

That's all well and good but this game has been in development for quite some time, you don't just press a key and presto all new engine features from the latest build of the UDK appear in your game.

also the specs of the hardware they used to create that UE3 demo were quite insane.

I do look forward to seeing what kind of destruction they implement in RO, hopefully it goes a little bit further than just breaking windows, but I'm not expecting any building collapses (not even the pre animated ones like in Bad Company 2).
 
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30. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 19, 2011, 23:11 Dev
 
DangerDog wrote on Jun 19, 2011, 17:07:
Unreal Engine 3 tech is pretty old and tired, the lack of destruction alone puts it in second place to BF3.
So, you've seen this video then? Made with latest march 2011 iteration of unreal engine 3 and NOT pre-rendered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgS67BwPfFY&hd=1

And UE3 DOES have destruction.
I suggest you read over the feature list here:
Text for your Link

This was brought up last time it was discussed too, and a number of people debunked the "no destruction" myth.

Edit: LOL you even posted in that thread
http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&boardid=1&threadid=119522

This comment was edited on Jun 19, 2011, 23:17.
 
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29. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 19, 2011, 22:56 Overon
 
You guys are making a thinking mistake. You are making the "all or nothing" fallacy. Just because PB cannot stop EVERY cheat does not mean it does not stop any cheat. It raises the bar and that automatically means less cheating.
 
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28. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 19, 2011, 21:26 Dades
 
ASeven wrote on Jun 19, 2011, 20:36:
The TW guys are going to receive one of Evenbalance's devs tomorrow at their office to have them work PB to work flawlessly with Steam's overlay.

They're going to have them over to do the impossible? I'm not sure that's going to happen. PB is nothing but trouble and does very little to stop cheating.
 
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27. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 19, 2011, 21:11 jimnms
 
They need to fix Punk Buster. It's had the same buggy shit for as long as I can remember. The auto update never works, and then I get kicked from a game forcing me to find the shit to manually update it.

Then it wants to install two services to startup automatically and run all the time, even when not playing games. I only have one game that I currently play that uses PB, so I don't want or need that crap running. I keep them in manual so that I don't have them running when not needed, but then I have to remember to start them when I play a game. Why can't they fix the services to properly work when in manual mode like other services, so that they'll start when needed and stop when not?
 
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26. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 19, 2011, 21:11 PHJF
 
PB is long past its prime and needs to be taken out to pasture.  
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Steam + PSN: PHJF
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25. Re: On Red Orchestra 2 Ranked Servers and Anti-Cheat Measures Jun 19, 2011, 20:43 eRe4s3r
 
I guess i ought to give a chance then.. we'll see ,)  
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44 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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