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Morning Consolidation

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24 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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24. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 17:57 killer_roach
 
Krovven wrote on Jun 9, 2011, 14:38:
MattyB wrote on Jun 9, 2011, 14:30:
Didn't a developer say that when they tested cross-platform multiplayer for whatever title it was they had, that even 'bad' PC Gamers were still walking all over 'good' console players and it was rediculously imbalanced?

Epic? Unreal III on PS3 allowed for mouse+keyboard use if I recall correctly. I can't think of any others except Shadowrun, but I believe someone had said they had gimped the mouse control to make it more even.

More than just made it even - the controls for the PC version of Shadowrun were gimped to the point where it gave 360 players an advantage, something that Microsoft used to push the 360 version of the game in the press. But yeah, it was a quick and dirty nerfing of turn speed and mouse sensitivity that caused that result.
 
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23. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 17:43 entr0py
 
Suddenly_Dead wrote on Jun 9, 2011, 16:32:
Tumbler wrote on Jun 9, 2011, 11:08:
Sony should be pushing dedicated servers like we see on pc games (haha, like we hope to see) so that a game like MW3 will play substantially better on the PS3. BF3 could have 64 players on the ps3 and less on the 360.

BC2 runs on (EA-operated) dedicated servers, and I assume BF3 will as well. So, uh, most of what you've been saying in this thread...

Also, Bad Company 2 demonstrated that dedicated server support is just one of the bottlenecks preventing consoles from having higher player limits. Even with dedicated servers, console versions of BC2 only supported up to 24 players compared to the PC's 32. They just don't have enough memory and processing power to handle 32 players in a modern FPS, much less 64.
 
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22. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 16:32 Suddenly_Dead
 
Tumbler wrote on Jun 9, 2011, 11:08:
Sony should be pushing dedicated servers like we see on pc games (haha, like we hope to see) so that a game like MW3 will play substantially better on the PS3. BF3 could have 64 players on the ps3 and less on the 360.

BC2 runs on (EA-operated) dedicated servers, and I assume BF3 will as well. So, uh, most of what you've been saying in this thread...
 
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21. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 15:58 Prez
 
space captain wrote on Jun 9, 2011, 14:01:
Verno wrote on Jun 9, 2011, 13:01:
Right but we're not just talking about what Tumbler wants because the world doesn't revolve around you alone.

the vast majority of people only understand this as an idea that is logical.. not as a reality they can feel
Well, MY world revolves around me. Wanna come to MY world??
 
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20. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 15:18 Wallshadows
 
I like the whole concept of blending Dust 514 with Eve Online. It's such a hug world and it's nice to see a different perspective of the universe even if it's not shares on the same platform.

It would be funny if the players from Dust relied on Eve players to transport from planet to planet though.

"Oh, you wanted to go to the next planet over?"
"Yes"
*enters null-space*
/afk

This comment was edited on Jun 9, 2011, 15:24.
 
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19. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 14:55 Verno
 
Yeah it was one of the devs on Shadowrun who said that in an interview. They basically had to purposely gimp the PC controls so that Xbox players even had a chance. I'd love to see PC vs Console in Counter-Strike, that would truly be a slaughterhouse. Speaking of which where the hell is CS2?  
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18. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 14:38 Krovven
 
MattyB wrote on Jun 9, 2011, 14:30:
Didn't a developer say that when they tested cross-platform multiplayer for whatever title it was they had, that even 'bad' PC Gamers were still walking all over 'good' console players and it was rediculously imbalanced?

Epic? Unreal III on PS3 allowed for mouse+keyboard use if I recall correctly. I can't think of any others except Shadowrun, but I believe someone had said they had gimped the mouse control to make it more even.

 
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17. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 14:30 MattyB
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 9, 2011, 12:55:
I disagree with vernos odd psychological argument but he's right that the superior input of pcs ruining the level balanced ground of xbl being a key cause.

Didn't a developer say that when they tested cross-platform multiplayer for whatever title it was they had, that even 'bad' PC Gamers were still walking all over 'good' console players and it was rediculously imbalanced?
 
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16. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 14:30 Silicon Avatar
 
I haven't upgraded my PC in years and it still plays everything okay. I just turn down some settings and don't obsess over whether or not every object on the screen is casting a perfect shadow.

Pretty simple solution.


 
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15. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 14:01 space captain
 
Verno wrote on Jun 9, 2011, 13:01:
Right but we're not just talking about what Tumbler wants because the world doesn't revolve around you alone.

the vast majority of people only understand this as an idea that is logical.. not as a reality they can feel
 
Go forth, and kill!
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14. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 13:01 Verno
 
I think you're missing my point, I'm a pc gamer, a 360 gamer, and a ps3 gamer. I don't want to play bf3 on my pc. (An in case you're wondering why, Developers/publishers do their best to fuck you on the PC, once you spend you're money you have no recourse if they sold you a pile of shit) I want it in all it's glory on either the ps3 or 360. I want the console versions to have their own dedicated servers running and the only hope for getting that to happen is to have sony lead the. MS has no incentive to do this, so either sony does it or I have to consider the pc if I wanted to play on dedicated servers...

Right but we're not just talking about what Tumbler wants because the world doesn't revolve around you alone. Simply having dedicated servers still wouldn't give you the full BF3 experience anyway. It would be lovely if everyone had dedicated servers but console fans(your peers in other words) by and large don't care about them. They remain ignorant of the technical underpinnings and don't want to know them, that's part of the console experience - it's all done for you. MS has no incentive to do this because it would be bad for business in more ways than one from their perspective.

I remain highly skeptical that the pc version of this game isn't going to be the same experience as the console at a higher res. The idea of spending $500 upgrading my pc to get the best results on bf3 is laughable based on what we've seen so far. I'm sure they can change my mind if they come up with some awesome gameplay clips but nothing comes close so far.

You can be skeptical all you want but the PC version already has several confirmed features the console version won't have, not the least of which is larger maps with 64 players. They have literally announced it already and the open beta is later this year.

No one really cares if you upgrade your computer or not, buy it for whatever floats your boat but BF3 will be best experienced on the PC - it's not even debatable. It is simply the most complete version of the game with the highest potential for performance. That doesn't mean the console versions will be bad but personally I've played enough fake military sim FPS games with low player counts, I'll take the 64 player extravaganza with huge, open maps and more strategy.


I disagree with vernos odd psychological argument but he's right that the superior input of pcs ruining the level balanced ground of xbl being a key cause. Also, console gamers know what dedicated servers are and demand them, but for different reasons. They are still ok with matchmaking, which given the small server populations isn't awful if it's quick and allows for friend listing, but they care more about a consistent experience that can't be fooled by turning off the hosts router or doesn't constantly resync every time the host leaves.

"level balanced ground of XBL" is pretty amusing but that aside, I can't agree with your conclusions about dedicated server. People have been buying XBL subs in increasing numbers for six years. I don't see any evidence to support that console users care in significant numbers. It would be great if they did because PC gamers wouldn't have to put up with the shoehorned P2P MP we get all the time but unfortunately that's just not reality. A few companies using it as a bullet point doesn't mean a trend unfortunately.

This comment was edited on Jun 9, 2011, 13:30.
 
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13. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 13:01 Tumbler
 
Umm... BF3 "in all its glory" will be on the PC. 64 player multiplayer, which is what the Battlefield series is all about, versus 24 on console. Not to mention computer GPUs are capable of handling graphics and physics better than the aging consoles, so graphic fidelity and physics realism will also be sacrificed in order to wedge the game on to a console.

BF3 on Console is "BF3 Lite" due to the limitations of the systems.

All of which has yet to be shown or demonstrated in any way shape or form. Even the MP footage we've seen is basically call of duty with everyone running around a tiny area. That tank level is just a fancy level in BFBC2. They're taking their sweet time showing off what the PC can do... They'll talk about it...but they haven't show ANYTHING that backs up what they are saying.
 
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12. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 13:01 Beamer
 
Also, console gamers know what dedicated servers are and demand them, but for different reasons. They are still ok with matchmaking, which given the small server populations isn't awful if it's quick and allows for friend listing, but they care more about a consistent experience that can't be fooled by turning off the hosts router or doesn't constantly resync every time the host leaves.

Gears of War 3 is making a huge point about its dedicated servers.
 
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11. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 12:55 Beamer
 
I disagree with vernos odd psychological argument but he's right that the superior input of pcs ruining the level balanced ground of xbl being a key cause.  
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10. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 12:50 WyldKat
 
Umm... BF3 "in all its glory" will be on the PC. 64 player multiplayer, which is what the Battlefield series is all about, versus 24 on console. Not to mention computer GPUs are capable of handling graphics and physics better than the aging consoles, so graphic fidelity and physics realism will also be sacrificed in order to wedge the game on to a console.

BF3 on Console is "BF3 Lite" due to the limitations of the systems.
 
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9. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 12:45 Tumbler
 
Most console gamers have no idea what dedicated servers are and don't care. A lot of fanboys will never leave the 360 either due to GAMERSCORE and all that nonsense.

I think you're missing my point, I'm a pc gamer, a 360 gamer, and a ps3 gamer. I don't want to play bf3 on my pc. (An in case you're wondering why, Developers/publishers do their best to fuck you on the PC, once you spend you're money you have no recourse if they sold you a pile of shit) I want it in all it's glory on either the ps3 or 360. I want the console versions to have their own dedicated servers running and the only hope for getting that to happen is to have sony lead the. MS has no incentive to do this, so either sony does it or I have to consider the pc if I wanted to play on dedicated servers...

I remain highly skeptical that the pc version of this game isn't going to be the same experience as the console at a higher res. The idea of spending $500 upgrading my pc to get the best results on bf3 is laughable based on what we've seen so far. I'm sure they can change my mind if they come up with some awesome gameplay clips but nothing comes close so far.

This comment was edited on Jun 9, 2011, 12:51.
 
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8. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 12:35 WyldKat
 
It's too bad Dust isn't coming to PC.

What was an interesting project is now on my No Care list.
 
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7. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 12:30 Verno
 
PSN needs a better interface and modern features like cross game voice chat and parties before it starts taking user base away from the 360. Most console gamers have no idea what dedicated servers are and don't care. A lot of fanboys will never leave the 360 either due to GAMERSCORE and all that nonsense.  
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6. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 12:21 Tumbler
 
The reason Microsoft doesn't allow multiplatform multiplayer involving Xbox Live is because it means there will be people playing that aren't paying for Xbox Live Gold. The only times they allowed it were for Shadowrun (back when GFWL had a Gold tier; they dropped multiplatform multiplayer support soon after GFWL went free) and FFXI (simply to build a better relationship with Square).

If Microsoft could require PC and PS3 gamers to pay for Live Gold, they'd allow multiplatform multiplayer in a heartbeat.

I wasn't thinking a change to live's backend support would allow non live gamers to mix with live gamers. At the moment it appears more developers are exploring the idea of running dedicated servers for PSN users which could be a huge boost for gaming on the PS3. If MS sees gamers leaving the 360 for a better gaming experience they will loosen their grip on the live service and allow developers to run dedicated live servers just like sony allows developers to run dedicated ps3/psn servers.

Still only 360 players on live. Only PS3 players on PSN. PC still their own community. And if you want to gank players using a controller you can always setup a server called "Gamepads only!" then you stay on the keyboard and mouse and everyone thinks you're awesome...
 
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5. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 9, 2011, 11:36 Verno
 
No they wouldn't. It would devalue Xbox Live Gold, PC gamers would stomp all over console gamers. I'm not saying that as a platform warrior type thing either, it's just a fact. Console gamers big thing is empowerment gaming, that's why chaotic and almost absurd titles like Call of Duty are their favorites. They don't want actual challenge or realism, it's more about pure entertainment through vicarious presentation. You put them up against a bunch of PC gamers who stomp all over them and gloat, those people are buying a PS3 soon after.

Console games are basically glorified set piece theater with button prompts, huge amounts of auto-aim and are typically very linear, quite often in multiplayer too. You can't put the people who like that kind of product up against an older demographic who have access to better input peripherals, framerates and more often than not raw skill from years of experience too.
 
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24 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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