Jonny5 wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 23:59:

Dades wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:45:

Jonny5 wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:38:
Little Fella? I am a 40 year old Gamer that has no problem with games..I adapt, I learn to get used to change. Times are a changin lil fella, This isnt the golden age of PC gaming anymore, console have a foot print , and its not going to chnage. This Demo is fine, looks great plays great and will be a good game to hold me off till D3, I have been gaming on PC before you knew what your Dick was for lil fella.

No one believes you or cares little one.

And that is why I called it an idiotic or short sighted approach.

Everyone that games on a computer has at least an intel GMA level graphic card, so may be all games should be written for that lowest common denominator graphics. And also, since FPS on consoles are played with controllers, then perhaps that's what should be the best option to play FPS.

Whether a game controller (keyboard, mouse, gamepad, joystick) is suitable or not is related to the genre and the particular game, not to a platform (at least not for PC)

It doesn't matter, if they didn't want people using the keyboard and mouse they could told them before hand quite easily by not making a PC version. When you make a PC version you had better support the default input peripherals users will have and guess what is the most common?

I game with a I7 2600 at 4.8 Ghz and 2x 580 GTX (both at 875 Mhz)....Who the fuck are you to judge my appreciation of games. I am a gamer, unlike most of you bitter fuck QQ about everything.

I dont even OWN a 360 or PS3...But I just may buy one since they are getting some great titles my PC isnt ...your a punk.

Dades wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:45:

Jonny5 wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:38:
Little Fella? I am a 40 year old Gamer that has no problem with games..I adapt, I learn to get used to change. Times are a changin lil fella, This isnt the golden age of PC gaming anymore, console have a foot print , and its not going to chnage. This Demo is fine, looks great plays great and will be a good game to hold me off till D3, I have been gaming on PC before you knew what your Dick was for lil fella.

No one believes you or cares little one.

And that is why I called it an idiotic or short sighted approach.

Everyone that games on a computer has at least an intel GMA level graphic card, so may be all games should be written for that lowest common denominator graphics. And also, since FPS on consoles are played with controllers, then perhaps that's what should be the best option to play FPS.

Whether a game controller (keyboard, mouse, gamepad, joystick) is suitable or not is related to the genre and the particular game, not to a platform (at least not for PC)

It doesn't matter, if they didn't want people using the keyboard and mouse they could told them before hand quite easily by not making a PC version. When you make a PC version you had better support the default input peripherals users will have and guess what is the most common?

Krovven wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:54:

noman wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:40:
And also, since FPS on consoles are played with controllers, then perhaps that's what should be the best option to play FPS.

Now don't be silly.

Seriously though, you wouldnt catch me playing an FPS on PC without a Mouse/Keyboard. But there is something to be said for Analog movement that the mouse/keyboard can't do.

If PC controls are gimped in DS3, then so be it. I've skipped more than a few otherwise good games due to bad controls. But sounds like they can also be adjusted somewhat for the person that likes the gameplay enough to put in the effort.

noman wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:40:
And also, since FPS on consoles are played with controllers, then perhaps that's what should be the best option to play FPS.

noman wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:40:

Teddy wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:26:
Contrast that to the fact that EVERYONE who games on a computer has a keyboard and mouse and that makes it the standard.

What you prefer is irrelevant. What is actually used more commonly is the issue.

And that is why I called it an idiotic or short sighted approach.

Everyone that games on a computer has at least an intel GMA level graphic card, so may be all games should be written for that lowest common denominator graphics. And also, since FPS on consoles are played with controllers, then perhaps that's what should be the best option to play FPS.

Whether a game controller (keyboard, mouse, gamepad, joystick) is suitable or not is related to the genre and the particular game, not to a platform (at least not for PC)

Jonny5 wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:38:
Little Fella? I am a 40 year old Gamer that has no problem with games..I adapt, I learn to get used to change. Times are a changin lil fella, This isnt the golden age of PC gaming anymore, console have a foot print , and its not going to chnage. This Demo is fine, looks great plays great and will be a good game to hold me off till D3, I have been gaming on PC before you knew what your Dick was for lil fella.

And that is why I called it an idiotic or short sighted approach.

Everyone that games on a computer has at least an intel GMA level graphic card, so may be all games should be written for that lowest common denominator graphics. And also, since FPS on consoles are played with controllers, then perhaps that's what should be the best option to play FPS.

Whether a game controller (keyboard, mouse, gamepad, joystick) is suitable or not is related to the genre and the particular game, not to a platform (at least not for PC)

Teddy wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:26:
Contrast that to the fact that EVERYONE who games on a computer has a keyboard and mouse and that makes it the standard.

What you prefer is irrelevant. What is actually used more commonly is the issue.

noman wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:34:

Teddy wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:22:
I have to ask, now that I think of it... To those playing with a console controller:

Most are not 'console controllers'. These are peripheral devices made for PC (Logitech F310, F510 or F710 for example) games.

I am not entirely sure what I dislike more - claims that PC games should only be played with keyboard/mouse, or recommendations that X360 controller is the only way to play games. People making either set of claims normally have no idea for how long PCs have had decent game controllers, other than keyboard and mouse.

And by the way, for anyone interested in getting one, do check out the Logitech series I mentioned, as it's the only controller on market which supports both DirectInput (for legacy games) and XInput standards.

Dades wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 21:13:

Jonny5 wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 20:27:

There are physics scrub.. I have thrown many of mobs with my shield bash into barrels and other things and had them bust apart.. 5 year old game ..really? What the fuck world were you playing games in in 2005..? Graphics are just fine scrub

You seem to be a pretty confused little fella, this isn't an Xbox Live call of duty game.

Teddy wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:22:
I have to ask, now that I think of it... To those playing with a console controller:

noman wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:19:
I can't disagree with it more. First of all you missed out racers, for which game controllers work substantially better than keyboard.

Analog controls for racers, mouse controls for FPS, flight stick for roll/pitch games, and gamepad/analog control for platformers are all examples of game controls suitable for different genres.

Calling keyboard/mouse as some sort of standard for PC gaming is quite frankly an idiotic and a very short sighted stance.

PropheT wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 21:53:
I actually agree with your point here, but the keyboard/mouse controls still shouldn't be overlooked or irrelevant on any decent PC game.

It's actually pretty simple to fix the controls in DS3; reset the turning keys to strafe and set the RMB to control the camera and it works like every other game in the genre. Even if a controller works better here, there's no reason why the controls should be forced into the counterintuitive scheme they're using right now in the demo.

PropheT wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 21:53:

noman wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 19:52:
One of the biggest strengths of PC gaming is the presence of all these peripherals and how games from all genres can be enjoyed using the most optimized input method. I have never understood this dislike of non keyboard/mouse control schemes.

I actually agree with your point here, but the keyboard/mouse controls still shouldn't be overlooked or irrelevant on any decent PC game.

It's actually pretty simple to fix the controls in DS3; reset the turning keys to strafe and set the RMB to control the camera and it works like every other game in the genre. Even if a controller works better here, there's no reason why the controls should be forced into the counterintuitive scheme they're using right now in the demo.

Teddy wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 20:44:
The POINT is very simply, the STANDARD for PC gaming, is keyboard and mouse control, with the exception of flight/space sims where the standard is a joystick. I'd put money down that most people who play PC games with any dedication don't even own gamepads. The option to use them should of course be there, and if you prefer that, then that's all well and good. But when it becomes mandatory to use said piece of hardware to enjoy a game... then the developers fucked up and fucked up bad.

noman wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 19:52:
One of the biggest strengths of PC gaming is the presence of all these peripherals and how games from all genres can be enjoyed using the most optimized input method. I have never understood this dislike of non keyboard/mouse control schemes.

noman wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 19:52:
One of the biggest strengths of PC gaming is the presence of all these peripherals and how games from all genres can be enjoyed using the most optimized input method. I have never understood this dislike of non keyboard/mouse control schemes

Jonny5 wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 20:27:

There are physics scrub.. I have thrown many of mobs with my shield bash into barrels and other things and had them bust apart.. 5 year old game ..really? What the fuck world were you playing games in in 2005..? Graphics are just fine scrub

Efflixi wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 20:58:
If you think you might be interested in this game, try the demo. I read all the negative comments here and almost deleted the demo without trying it. It's actually pretty fun! Don't let all the negativity around here sway you from at least trying it.

Teddy wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 20:44:

noman wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 19:52:

everyone wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 19:43:

StingingVelvet wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 18:06:
Controllers have been part of PC gaming since the beginning and there have always been PC games that worked better with a controller, from Tomb Raider to Assassin's Creed.

Tomb Raider plays great with kb+m. Better than a pad, imo.

In my opinion games like Tomb Raider and Prince of Persia (since Sands of Time) work best with game controllers. Space-sims and flight-sims have always worked best with joysticks which have been around for more than 20 years on PC. Racing games work best with wheels (with controllers as the second best option) Keyboard/mouse works best with RTS, FPS and most strategy and RPG games.

One of the biggest strengths of PC gaming is the presence of all these peripherals and how games from all genres can be enjoyed using the most optimized input method. I have never understood this dislike of non keyboard/mouse control schemes.

Both you and Stinging Velvet are missing the point entirely. Turn off your gamepad and try playing it with a keyboard and mouse just for a short time, then get back to me.

The POINT is very simply, the STANDARD for PC gaming, is keyboard and mouse control, with the exception of flight/space sims where the standard is a joystick. I'd put money down that most people who play PC games with any dedication don't even own gamepads. The option to use them should of course be there, and if you prefer that, then that's all well and good. But when it becomes mandatory to use said piece of hardware to enjoy a game... then the developers fucked up and fucked up bad.

If you make a PC game that is not a flight sim, you had BETTER damn well make sure it plays decently on a keyboard and mouse. Add in whatever else you like for people to use aside from that, but if the basics don't work, then it's a piece of garbage and it'll sell like one too.