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Quote of the Day

"Piracy these days on PC is probably less problematic than second-hand sales on the Xbox," says lead Fable III combat designer Mike West. "I've been working on PC games for many years and piracy is always a problem. There are a lot of honest people out there as well, and if they like your game they'll buy it." Thanks joao.

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16. Re: Quote of the  Day May 18, 2011, 13:15 Creston
 
They're allowed to do whatever they want but that doesn't mean the industry can't workaround their actions either. I'm not defending all of their choices, I'm just pointing out that they are a reaction to consumer choices so far.

That kind of turns into a chicken and the egg situation. What was there first, crippling piracy, or DRM? I was getting DRM on games as far back as I can remember, long before I even realized there was such a thing as piracy.

And the PC gets saddled with more and more DRM, yet at the same time, the industry whines more about second hand sales, of which there are (virtually) none on the PC.

Your example of an industry second hand sales store is inherently flawed at the conceptual level unfortunately. Gamestop makes probably 80% profit before expenses when it resells a game and that figure inches closer to 90% when you factor in the people who do "store credit". It doesn't matter if that price is $50 or $15.

To a point. Gamestop makes a ton of money off used sales, but it also has to devote a lot of resources to the used sales. (Floor space, the entire trading in concept, time its employees spend figuring out what is worth what, etc.)
If you take away their margin, eventually it becomes a no-value supposition for them.

I'm also not really talking about a store. Do it online. Do it digital. Hell, offer people 30 bucks off your next game if they trade in/return one of your old games. Every game they give back to YOU is either

A) Money you can make in resale (which negates the whole "the publisher/dev doesn't see a penny" argument)
or
B) a game that people DON'T give to Gamestop, and thus is taken out of gamestop's chain.

If Sony offered second hand games for $15, Gamestop would literally just go $14 and call it a day. They do this already with existing competition in retail second hand sales.

So? Sony can do the same thing. Gamestop goes 14, Sony goes 13. Goes 12. Fuck, Sony can go 5 bucks if it wants to. That's how price competition works. You keep lowering the price until the competition gives up. Gamestop isn't going to keep doing used sales if it can't make any money on it.

And before you argue the inevitable "if they offer used games for 5 bucks, they'd never sell any new copies", sure that's true, but again to a point. There's always people that will buy new, and this would be a temporary thing. When Walmart drives local businesses out, they only do their massive sales right up until the businesses quit. Then they go back to their normal pricing.

But hey, you know, alternatively you (ie, the industry) could also just sit there and scream and cry REALLY, REALLY loudly about how Gamestop's legal business is so evil and how it's murdering your industry, even though said industry makes record revenues each year.

If you don't see a dime out of used sales, maybe... I dunno, you should go into used sales?

That's your (understandably) emotional interpretation to the situation. As a consumer who gets affected by this too I often react the same way but when you look at it logically they are doing exactly what the consumer has done to them.

That's another chicken and the egg situation. I'm pretty sure that the industry started shafting its customers LONG before the used games sales thing became such a massive issue.

Just because other industries haven't figured out how to get away with it doesn't mean it's "wrong" or something.

No, and I've never said it's wrong. Other than shitting all over the first sale doctrine, technically nothing the industry does is illegal. It's my decision whether to keep buying their games or not. Enough sheeple will put up with any kind of insane schemes that they'll just keep right on doing them. (Although Starforce has shown that, sometimes, the sheeple CAN make a difference.)

I just wish the industry would stop WHINING about it every single fucking day.

The gaming industry is in many ways different than industries too, people often incorrectly just compare the end product while ignoring every other aspect.

I don't buy that argument. In the end, it's a product-based service industry. They offer a product for which there is demand, and the people buy it. That they'd LIKE to pretend that people are just renting stuff, and they retain all final control over shit etc etc etc is all really very nice, but it's horseshit. You offer me a game that offers 25 hours of entertainment for 60 bucks, I'll buy it. How is that different from a movie theater offering me a movie for 8 bucks? Or a club offering live entertainment for x amount of dollars, etc?

That being said I think there is room for second hand sales in the industry and I do think that it also does make a positive contribution to new sales, I'm just not sure that's meaningful enough to outweigh Gamestop flipping every copy 20 times.

That's a fair argument, and it's doubtful they'd ever get rid of used sales entirely. But their sole argument rests on the "We never see a dime of used sales, WAAAAAAAAAAAH!"

So what if they only get 30% of the market? That's 30% more than they have now. More importantly, it's 30% LESS that Gamestop gets. Seems like a win-win for the game industry to me?

Nah, instead they'll just cry about it, grabbing their ankles and taking it up the ass from Gamestop, while at the same time working their asses off to make exclusive content for Gamestop. Because after all, EVERY industry strives hard to make its major competition even better, right? Only the game industry, baby.

Obviously there needs to be a middle ground for the industry and the consumer but we have yet to see it.

Yeah, I wouldn't hold your breath...

Creston
 
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