45 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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| 45. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 11, 2011, 02:44 |
Wikidd |
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I'm from the UK, but I bought The Orange Box at retail and that mentioned it very clearly on the box.
I think the sticker might have been added by the retailer though, being a local independent shop means they're quite good like that.
Also, if you dig further into the subscriber agreement it seems quite clear that all the games are considered subscriptions. It even talks about how you might acquire software from other sources that requires a subscription and may come with other terms, which would cover third party Steamworks games.
Even further on it mentions that subscribers have no right to expect continuous service.
I basically trust Valve to remain profitable and carry on running Steam the way they currently do so I buy games there, but they've done the basic lawyer thing of disclaiming as much responsibility for the games we're buying as possible. |
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| 44. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 23:57 |
ChaosEngine |
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Tumbler wrote on May 10, 2011, 19:02:
you can't see this stuff when you buy a steam game at retail though. nowhere on the box does it say you're buying a subscription. edit: I'm pretty sure some of them don't even say steam is required. but that might have just been some of the earliest 3rd party steam games I got burned on.
I agree its ridiculous, I think they should be required to slap huge warning labels on the front of all these products that says, "ONLINE AUTHENTICATION REQUIRED". The software you buy in the stores should work out of the box, no internet required.
You mean like the Internet connection required warning on the back of my MW2 box, that explicitly states that you need steam to play it? But hey, facts are so inconvenient when you're having a good ole rant, eh? |
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| 43. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 19:02 |
Tumbler |
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you can't see this stuff when you buy a steam game at retail though. nowhere on the box does it say you're buying a subscription. edit: I'm pretty sure some of them don't even say steam is required. but that might have just been some of the earliest 3rd party steam games I got burned on.
I agree its ridiculous, I think they should be required to slap huge warning labels on the front of all these products that says, "ONLINE AUTHENTICATION REQUIRED". The software you buy in the stores should work out of the box, no internet required. |
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VGfive.com - Game Trading site (Steam codes too!)
Kickstarter "Game Developer"! |
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| 42. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 16:38 |
vermin |
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you can't see this stuff when you buy a steam game at retail though. nowhere on the box does it say you're buying a subscription. edit: I'm pretty sure some of them don't even say steam is required. but that might have just been some of the earliest 3rd party steam games I got burned on.
Tumbler wrote on May 10, 2011, 15:23:
I'll be super nice and save you some effort:
Item #1. AHAHHAAAHAHAH omg that is the best part of this post. Not item 28 A, subsection 12, paragragh 4.
ITEM NUMBER 1. OMG that would be the best court case ever, this class action lawsuit alleges Valve misled it's customers by hiding the subscriber status as ITEM NUMBER 1. AHAHAHAHAH. Just had a lot of legal discussions yesterday regarding contracts and such and for some reason this strikes me as a particularly hilarious defense.
"My client would never know he was a subscriber rather than an owner, how is he supposed to find Item number 1 in this huge EULA? That is ridiculous!" |
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| 41. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 16:36 |
Prez |
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To say that you are "subscribing" to games on Steam is basically saying you are also subscribing to any game that has online activation of any kind. So unless you buy all your games from GOG, everyone's a "subscriber" by this logic.
Anyway, to continue on Verno's theme:
Steam is good for retail in the same way that meth is good for teeth.
This comment was edited on May 10, 2011, 22:56. |
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| 40. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 16:27 |
Creston |
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Sheesh, you two have no sense of ironic humor.
Yeah we do, it's just secret. 
Creston |
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| 39. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 15:31 |
Verno |
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| Steam is good for retail in the same way that sharks are great for wounded divers. |
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Playing: Faster Than Light, Tales of Graces F, Fire Emblem 3DS
Watching: Ghost in the Shell, Hannibal, Oblivion |
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| 38. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 15:25 |
Ray Marden |
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I was just joking about that one. Looking at my original post, I made a point of not counting that Crysis 2 credit.
As far as I am concerned, I paid an "equivalent" rate of $15 for Portal 2. I conceded the "future purchase" aspect, but given the number and frequency of my purchases, I am routinely generating and subsequently burning away credits.
Sheesh, you two have no sense of ironic humor.
Knot thhat duhm,
Ray |
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| 37. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 15:23 |
Tumbler |
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I'll be super nice and save you some effort:
Item #1. AHAHHAAAHAHAH omg that is the best part of this post. Not item 28 A, subsection 12, paragragh 4.
ITEM NUMBER 1. OMG that would be the best court case ever, this class action lawsuit alleges Valve misled it's customers by hiding the subscriber status as ITEM NUMBER 1. AHAHAHAHAH. Just had a lot of legal discussions yesterday regarding contracts and such and for some reason this strikes me as a particularly hilarious defense.
"My client would never know he was a subscriber rather than an owner, how is he supposed to find Item number 1 in this huge EULA? That is ridiculous!" |
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VGfive.com - Game Trading site (Steam codes too!)
Kickstarter "Game Developer"! |
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| 36. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 15:20 |
kanniballl |
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Wikidd wrote on May 10, 2011, 14:45:
descender wrote on May 10, 2011, 10:21:
Probably because they aren't subscriptions.
You've never actually read the Steam Subscriber Agreement, have you?
I'll be super nice and save you some effort:
1. REGISTRATION AND ACTIVATION.
Steam is an online service ("Steam") offered by Valve Corporation ("Valve").
You become a subscriber of Steam ("Subscriber") by installing the Steam client software and completing the Steam registration. Additionally, as a Subscriber you may obtain access to certain services, software and content ("Subscriptions") available to Subscribers. Conclusion of this contract between Valve and you takes place as soon as you access the Steam service after accepting this Agreement. [emphasis added]
Well, the optimist can take that to mean games don't fall under subscriber-based software or services. Like maybe they are in a class entirely different from games (like chat stuff or challenge/bade/collections).
But I can't think of any services or software outside of games, and my examples above don't really work. So it probably means games.
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"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurama |
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| 35. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 14:45 |
Wikidd |
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descender wrote on May 10, 2011, 10:21:
Probably because they aren't subscriptions.
You've never actually read the Steam Subscriber Agreement, have you?
I'll be super nice and save you some effort:
1. REGISTRATION AND ACTIVATION.
Steam is an online service ("Steam") offered by Valve Corporation ("Valve").
You become a subscriber of Steam ("Subscriber") by installing the Steam client software and completing the Steam registration. Additionally, as a Subscriber you may obtain access to certain services, software and content ("Subscriptions") available to Subscribers. Conclusion of this contract between Valve and you takes place as soon as you access the Steam service after accepting this Agreement. [emphasis added] |
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| 34. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 14:40 |
kanniballl |
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Creston wrote on May 10, 2011, 14:25:
You can't do that, Ray. :p
You can't add the 20 bucks in credit to the game you got it with, then ALSO add the 10 bucks of credit you got from a previous game. Either you see it as a discount on your current game, or as a discount on your next game. Otherwise you're counting it twice.
Haha! 
Creston
Yeh, you have to be consistent.
If you're counting rebate from the previous game towards this game... then you have to count the rebate from this game to the next game.
Either that, or you forgot about the Crysis rebate and never factored it to anything and treated it like found money for this game.
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"Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you."
-Fry, Futurama |
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| 33. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 14:25 |
Creston |
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Ray Marden wrote on May 10, 2011, 13:31:
So I pre-ordered at $45...Amazon matched the retailers at $35 within the last week leading up to release...and I had free release day delivery (meaning it shipped overnight the day before) for being a Prime member. Toss in the $20 game credit and I paid an "equivalent" of $15.
Technically, I only paid an equivalent rate of $5 since I had a $10 credit from purchasing Crysis 2, but I won't bring that up. :o
You can't do that, Ray. :p
You can't add the 20 bucks in credit to the game you got it with, then ALSO add the 10 bucks of credit you got from a previous game. Either you see it as a discount on your current game, or as a discount on your next game. Otherwise you're counting it twice.
Haha!
Creston |
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| 32. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 13:53 |
Tumbler |
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Amazon matched the retailers at $35 within the last week leading up to release
Hunh, I hadn't realized that the Pc version was $35 at launch for the pc, I thought that was the week after or something. That is the kind of thing I like seeing for the PC version. A substantially lower price point on that version makes the PC side a more interesting purchase. I thought the reason they dropped the price a week later was more of a tactic to compete with used game sales, which is fantastic in itself. I want to see more companies dropping the price to $30-$40 within 2 weeks of release, that is how you compete with Used game sales, that is the price that companies will pay to get those games in and resell them to consumers. That same consumers seems a brand new game for $35 they'll pick that up instead. |
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VGfive.com - Game Trading site (Steam codes too!)
Kickstarter "Game Developer"! |
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| 31. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 13:31 |
Ray Marden |
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A couple of things were at play:
1. Amazon initially had a 10% discount for the PC version, putting the sticker price at $45.
2. As part of Amazon's price-matching guarantee or pre-orders, it will always give you the lowest Amazon price (which fluctuate constantly) from the time you place your order to the time of shipping.
So I pre-ordered at $45...Amazon matched the retailers at $35 within the last week leading up to release...and I had free release day delivery (meaning it shipped overnight the day before) for being a Prime member. Toss in the $20 game credit and I paid an "equivalent" of $15.
I was happy at $45 with the $20 credit. $35 was just icing on the cake.
Technically, I only paid an equivalent rate of $5 since I had a $10 credit from purchasing Crysis 2, but I won't bring that up. 
Tending to get new stuff from Amazon and older stuff from Steam,
Ray
Edit: Looking at "good for retail" Steam, did it make any effort to remotely match this pricing? Or even the ~$35 retail pricing? Not in the slightest.
This comment was edited on May 10, 2011, 13:46. |
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| 30. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 13:18 |
Tumbler |
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I had Portal 2 at my residence when I got home from work on the day it came out for an equivalent total of $15 ($35 price minus $20 credit for preordering.)
Did you have a credit of $20 when you initially ordered Portal 2? I though the price at launch was $54.99 on amazon? Maybe $44.99 for the PC? How did you hit $35 at launch? |
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VGfive.com - Game Trading site (Steam codes too!)
Kickstarter "Game Developer"! |
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| 29. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 13:12 |
Ray Marden |
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But that's $78 ($6.58/month) to Amazon for, collectively, some free VoD, free two-day shipping, discounted same-day shipping, no sales tax, free release day delivery on preorders, and sub-twenty four hour customer support. Additionally, Amazon pushes a wide range of deals - combo purchases, hourly discounts, daily discounts, spontaneous sales, and increasingly larger and larger preorder discounts.
Case in point: I had Portal 2 at my residence when I got home from work on the day it came out for an equivalent total of $15 ($35 price minus $20 credit for preordering.)
What did retail offer me? Higher equivalent price? Limited PC inventory? No PC version unless I preorder? No PC retail space period? Higher priced used games? Taking days to stock a game? More space devoted to used games than new games? "New" games that have already been opened and played? A consistent lack of preorder bonuses due to limited stock? Much more resistance to discounting? Sales tax? Gas and time obtaining the product?
Meanwhile, Steam is not good for retail. For whatever relative spikes it may cause when advertising a given game, it has already taken a significantly larger portion of overall sales from retail. If there was no online delivery, where would I be purchasing my games? At retail, of course. In contrast, with Steam and Amazon Prime available, why do I ever go to retail? Only in the rare exception where it has a better deal or my wife wants to make a spontaneous purchase.
How many jobs will be left for us when everything is digital?
Wanting to shop retail, but feeling mistreated by retail,
Ray |
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| 28. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 12:59 |
Tumbler |
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Amazon Prime is easily the smartest money I've spent in a long time. Anything I want, ANYTHING, I check on amazon to see if I can get a better price there. 2 day shipping on everything makes a world of difference, as long as you can live for 2 days they ship things so bloody fast that it's often there the next day.
Batteries, replacement laptop batteries, cell phone hands free headsets, bulk mailing envelopes, printable adhesive labels, video games, phone cases, arm pad mouse pad thingy, (so i can use my mouse in my lazy boy chair) lap desk, I could go on for hours. The only thing I end up buying off amazon is cell phone accessories which are easier to shop for on ebay.
When everything you buy off amazon is "free" to ship it's easy to buy everything there. And OMG do you save money. It ends up being a choice of do i want to save $5 and get it tommorrow? Do I want to save $50 and get it tommorrow?
Brink is $54.99, shipped, no other costs if you are prime. That is easily a $10 savings over buying it retail...and it's delivered to my house. You don't have to go into those god awful stores and wait in fucking line to spend way more money than necessary. You don't have to give your pre-order ticket to someone at best buy who has no idea where this game is and spends the next 5 min looking for it. @#$@#% I could have grabbed a copy of the MF shelf by now! WTF am I still doing here?
This comment was edited on May 10, 2011, 13:05. |
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VGfive.com - Game Trading site (Steam codes too!)
Kickstarter "Game Developer"! |
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| 27. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 12:50 |
Agent.X7 |
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baltar wrote on May 10, 2011, 11:18:
Prime is only worth it when you buy a lot online - where the cost of your shipping can offset the amount being spent yearly.
I have amazon student which means free prime for the year.. next year I will have to pay though.
3.99 for 1day shipping really helps to gets rid of the delivery delay, but most things can make it in 2 days regardless, and if amazon game preorders get release date delivery, well that's free for prime.
I have to look into the student thing. I have a free Prime trial going on right now, but I would love a year free, lol. I order so much from Amazon I'm pretty sure I would pay anyway. |
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| Seven Star Gaming - Sayre, PA |
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| 26. |
Re: Valve: Steam Good for Retail |
May 10, 2011, 12:45 |
Agent.X7 |
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nin wrote on May 10, 2011, 10:49:
Steam prices are generally high for new titles, but their "Sale weekends" are excellent.
Steam has encouraged a form of buying I started using with gogamer years ago: I'll gladly wait 6 months to a year, if I can get the game for $5-$20. And in turn, I also pickup stuff I normally wouldn't bother, as losing money on a $5 game is nowhere near as painful as losing money on a $50 one.
I agree. I like to get things that I think are a safe bet for me (The next WoW expansion, Brink), but stuff I am only marginally interested in (or stuff that has burned me in the past *cough*RED FACTION*cough*) I will wait on until it is very cheap. |
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| Seven Star Gaming - Sayre, PA |
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45 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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