Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

[Mar 26, 2011, 2:23 pm ET] - Share - Viewing Comments

Computer and Video Games has some thoughts on piracy and DRM from Christofer Sundberg, founder of Swedish developer Avalanche Studios. He admits piracy is as worrisome to them as it is to all other developers, but that 50% of his employees come from hacking background. He also once again explains his distain for DRM. "The DRM does not stop piracy," he said, "it just punishes the people who have actually paid for the game. It's completely useless. Forcing people to be online all the time and so on doesn't show respect to the people who actually buy PC games." To some degree he also blames PC piracy on bad PC games and console ports, saying: "I think piracy wouldn't be as much of an issue if there were better PC games out there. We could just scrap the whole concept of stupid DRM." Here's more:

I've always been of the opinion that we should design PC games for the PC players. PC players and console players are completely two different types of consumer. It's always unfair to not design the game for the consumer you're targeting. The PC version is always a second thought [for publishers], like: 'Oh, and we need a PC version too.'

You end up just doing a port, so there's not a lot of time, budget or creative thinking going into using the PC. I think that's quite sad. We [as an industry] should take the PC platform more seriously. Everyone is just complaining about piracy on the PC, but when it comes to in-game DLC or social connectivity, the options on PC compared to console are endless. I would like at some point to do a really good PC game designed specifically for PC players.

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16.

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 22:18

Rockn-Roll

I've never before read something so self-serving...if "50% of his employees come from hacking background" then of course it would make it easier for them to pirate games if there was no DRM...they would not have to do any work at all to steal games.

I'd also like to point out that his statement of "I would like at some point to do a really good PC game designed specifically for PC players." is basically saying that he too is designing games for the consoles and porting to the PC, or that he is not designing really good games...but gee...does it make him right because he wants to do really good games designed for the PC?

I'm a computer engineer with 28 years of experience...and hacking is a very specialized talent. I had some experience with it myself...a friend gave me their copy of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, but they had lost their key. I'm sure it was a legitimate copy because that friend worked for my father...he would have been risking his job and career if it was stolen. This was back in the DOS days...late 80's, so I used a debugger included with a shareware assembler called ASM86 to step through the machine code and locate where the key was checked...and then used Norton Utilities to change the conditional jump code to a non-operational code in the exe file so that processing wouldn't jump out to the exit routine.

That got me through the first few levels, but then the game would crash after that...I never found out why...whether it was another DRM check or whatever because I had already got my fill of the game and didn't bother to continue, because stepping through the machine code is tedious and time consuming work. I recall that it took me a good 4 hours or so to get the game working. And, hacking is not a stepping stone to application development because it doesn't require any code design...it's just tediously stepping through machine code until the normal process is interrupted and the code jumps to a segment of code where the exit message is displayed...replacing the conditional jumps with non-ops takes no brains at all. Hackers don't get my respect at all, but neither do most programmers...in reality there are very few programmers that would gain my respect...many of the jobs I've worked in my career has been fixing the problems that other programmers have caused and which dozens of other programmers could not find and fix.

The tools hackers use today are more sophisticated, but so are the DRM measures. And, some DRM measures are seamless and painless to use...for example Steam...after a game is installed and the key used to unlock it...the game is forever unlocked for that Steam account even if the unlock key is lost. In fact, I don't hear any of my friends complain about DRM unless it's GFWL which is a console port itself or SecureROM or the like where there's a limited number of activations.

All this did for Christofer Sundberg and Avalanche Studios...as far as I'm concerned...is put him and the studio on a list of game companies which I will never purchase from...because the last thing I want to do is help fund pirates or programmers who are causing the problems that I need to fix. Programmers that keep creating buggy code really should find another career...rocket science is actually easier than designing bug-free code...I know because I studied rocket science in college (basically it's fluid dynamics plus mechanical dynamics, and a little chemistry and physics).




Let's Rock!

15.

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 21:45

Prez

Nice to see the occasional developer that still gets it.




Prez on Soundclick http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=604888

14.

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 21:44

Slashman

StingingVelvet wrote on Mar 26, 2011, 21:14: elefunk wrote on Mar 26, 2011, 21:09: To people who still don't like steam, sure it's an irony to a point. But to a developer using it, it's so much more than just DRM. It's a platform that makes it incredibly easy for them to release updates and dlc, track sales down to the instant, and quickly give discounts with. All that infrastructure is incredibly difficult and expensive for a developer to build from scratch, so getting it for free with Steamworks is very enticing even without the drm aspect coming up. There's also things like cloud settings and saves that help customers, which would be even more difficult to do without Steamworks. If they didn't care about the DRM they could make Steam an optional install for online features like a few games have done in the past. I'd say for Just Cause 2 it was likely that Steamworks gave them the means to do what they wanted without having to do a lot of stuff from scratch. Things like Achievements and online saves etc. Those things might not matter to some people...but that's a separate thing. I don't think anyone with any common sense is going to argue that Steamworks isn't essentially DRM. I just think that we're past the point where most people find Steam as intrusive as any of the other DRM solutions out there. Most people(myself included) just don't find it to be a detriment. If that is the case, then making a separate non-Steam version doesn't really make any sense. It would only be a concern to a few people(like yourself) who are Steam-wary and would rather not have your games associated with it.

13.

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 21:14

StingingVelvet

elefunk wrote on Mar 26, 2011, 21:09: To people who still don't like steam, sure it's an irony to a point. But to a developer using it, it's so much more than just DRM. It's a platform that makes it incredibly easy for them to release updates and dlc, track sales down to the instant, and quickly give discounts with. All that infrastructure is incredibly difficult and expensive for a developer to build from scratch, so getting it for free with Steamworks is very enticing even without the drm aspect coming up. There's also things like cloud settings and saves that help customers, which would be even more difficult to do without Steamworks. If they didn't care about the DRM they could make Steam an optional install for online features like a few games have done in the past.

12.

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 21:09

elefunk

To people who still don't like steam, sure it's an irony to a point. But to a developer using it, it's so much more than just DRM. It's a platform that makes it incredibly easy for them to release updates and dlc, track sales down to the instant, and quickly give discounts with. All that infrastructure is incredibly difficult and expensive for a developer to build from scratch, so getting it for free with Steamworks is very enticing even without the drm aspect coming up. There's also things like cloud settings and saves that help customers, which would be even more difficult to do without Steamworks.

11.

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 19:53

Jerykk

Wow, a developer actually telling like it is. That's a refreshing change. That said, it doesn't mean that they'll ever actually make a PC exclusive. That's a publisher decision.

10.

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 18:40

StingingVelvet

Optimaximal wrote on Mar 26, 2011, 14:56: Is it ironic that these comments come on the back of Just Cause 2 being a Steamworks game? I don't think most people notice Steam is DRM, for better or worse. Just Cause 2 had a great PC version. I would love to see these guys make an actual PC game.

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 17:31

Slashman

mag wrote on Mar 26, 2011, 17:02: Just Cause 2 is so very much a console game--but it is handled incredibly well on the PC. Surprisingly so. I was actually shocked when I picked it up a month or so ago on a Steam sale and realized how much attention had been given to it. I can enter console commands direct through the game properties in Steam. Of course, then you have to ask who else has really done this lately. Not many folks that I can think of. I actually felt kind of good that I found console players on the forums who were envious of the mods and stuff that came out for the PC and some of the other perks we got. That doesn't happen often.

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 17:02

mag

Just Cause 2 is so very much a console game--but it is handled incredibly well on the PC.

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 16:34

Acleacius

Good write up, glad there are still some developers who think for themselves.




Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history.....and they are stupid. Dwight D. Eisenhower

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 16:15

Draugr

Then a black van showed up, some guys got out, and threw Sundberg in the back and drove away with it's lights off.

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 16:09

Creston

Bravo, Avalanche. Bravo. Creston

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 15:58

Cutter

Distain? You mean disdain.

Anyway, DRM is useless. It doesn't stop theft. Anymore than anti-theft devices on cars do. If someone really wants to steal something they're going to do it regardless.




"Are you crazy? Is that your problem?" - Jack Burton

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 15:13

Kosumo

So did he just announce that all their games from now on will just use a charity box system where you just pay what you want? WOW

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 14:56

Optimaximal

Is it ironic that these comments come on the back of Just Cause 2 being a Steamworks game?

Re: Avalanche on Piracy, DRM, and Ports

Mar 26, 2011, 14:53

Tumbler

Forcing people to be online all the time and so on doesn't show respect to the people who actually buy PC games.

This. Consumers would support your little hooks like this if you met them half way. Even those little online codes starting to show up on console are reasonable in many ways. You still get an offline product that you can use without condition.

Bioware was on the right path with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Origins, but it's apparently too tempting to screw you paying customers so I guess that is what you get on the PC now.




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