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StarCraft II Patched

Battle.net announces that a new patch is now automatically available for StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty to update the RTS sequel to version 1.3.0. The full change list is immense, so here's the Reader's Digest version: "StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty patch 1.3.0 is now live! This patch features adjustments to race balance, notable Join Custom Game improvements, support for the upcoming Grandmaster League, and several bug fixes." Thanks Blizzplanet.

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24. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 18:38 Yifes
 
grudgebearer wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 18:35:
So what you're saying is that we are back to square one, with you not really understanding what a trilogy is in relation to video games, gotcha.

Nope, we're not back to square one. Because while we have both agreed to disagree on the definition of trilogy in video games, we've also established that you're full of shit when it comes to SCII.
 
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23. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 18:35 grudgebearer
 
So what you're saying is that we are back to square one, with you not really understanding what a trilogy is in relation to video games, gotcha.  
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22. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 18:25 Yifes
 
grudgebearer wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 18:14:
So wait, now you are saying that Starcraft 2 and it's additional race-related comaigns aren't a really trilogy, it just uses trilogy structure in the storytelling?

I'll repeat myself, since you missed it: "The story is in the form of a trilogy, told in 1 game and 2 expansions, so what's your point?"

Way to bring up CoD as an example and then completely sidestep the issue. They didn't try to release each single player campaign as an expansion.

I'm not sidestepping the issue. COD had one storyline told from multiple perspectives, just like SCII WOL. SCII did not fraction 1 storyline into 3 parts. It told one storyline mostly from the terran's perspective. You sidestepped the issue that games like MW1 and MW2 had basically the same graphic engine and gameplay. Of course, that is again moot because we're talking about expansions, not sequel.

Seriously, have you been drinking? You are the one that initially brought up the FF series to try and support your "Starcraft 2 is actually a trilogy" idea.
I guess I'll quote myself again: "The story is in the form of a trilogy, told in 1 game and 2 expansions, so what's your point?" No one said that SCII Heart of the Swarm is going to be a sequel.

You don't have to enjoy Diablo to be a Starcraft 2 fanboi.

I see, now you're changing your tune to SC2 fanboi. Ad hominem is a nice strategy when you're full of shit.

Oh what's that? How are you full of shit? Want me to summarize it in bullet form for you?

1. WOL is not a full experience! - WRONG. It's the story of raynor and Kerrigan and it gets resolved. All that it is missing is the zerg perspective during single player, but there's no law that a game has to include every race's perspective when telling a story.

2. WOL only has a human perspective! - WRONG. You also play as protoss

3. WOL's expansions will be full price! - WRONG.

4. SCII is a single game split into 3 parts! - WRONG. The story is in the form of a trilogy, told in 1 game and 2 expansions, with approximately 90 missions or 3x the content of SCI. SCII will have 3 storylines, when SC1 and BW had 1 storyline each.

This comment was edited on Mar 23, 2011, 18:33.
 
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21. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 18:14 grudgebearer
 
Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 17:52:
I'll repeat myself, since you chose to ignore the relevant point: "No shit the experience is different. The point that you don't want to recognize is that both LOTR and SCII use the trilogy structure in storytelling, and there's nothing inherently wrong with the trilogy structure."

So wait, now you are saying that Starcraft 2 and it's additional race-related comaigns aren't a really trilogy, it just uses trilogy structure in the storytelling?

Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 17:52:
Are you being obtuse? I never said that playing as more than one race was exclusive to multiplayer.

Way to bring up CoD as an example and then completely sidestep the issue. They didn't try to release each single player campaign as an expansion.

Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 17:52:
No it doesn't, because we're talking about SCII's expansions, not sequels. So it's pointless to debate with you that some of the games uses basically the same graphics engine and same turn based combat mechanics.

Seriously, have you been drinking? You are the one that initially brought up the FF series to try and support your "Starcraft 2 is actually a trilogy" idea.

Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 17:52:
Funny, cuz I hate every other franchise Blizzard produces. It's cute that you're trying to justify your own ignorance by making me out as a blizzard fanboi though.

You don't have to enjoy Diablo to be a Starcraft 2 fanboi.
 
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20. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 17:55 Yifes
 
Jay wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 17:53:
Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 17:24:
Only play as the humans? Yeah lets just ignore the fact that there's also a protoss campaign in the first game.
Really? Didn't know that. when they announced sc2 back in 2008, they said that the 1st one would be Terran, 2nd Zerg, then 3rd Protoss. I know almost nothing about sc2 because I'm trying to avoid spoilers until I can get my hands on the battle chest edition.

It's probably my favorite part of the single player campaign. Short, but epic.
 
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19. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 17:53 Jay
 
Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 17:24:
Only play as the humans? Yeah lets just ignore the fact that there's also a protoss campaign in the first game.
Really? Didn't know that. when they announced sc2 back in 2008, they said that the 1st one would be Terran, 2nd Zerg, then 3rd Protoss. I know almost nothing about sc2 because I'm trying to avoid spoilers until I can get my hands on the battle chest edition.
 
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18. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 17:52 Yifes
 
grudgebearer wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 17:39:
If you agree that they aren't the same, then why did you use it as an analogy and then get all butthurt when I said it was a horrible one?
I'll repeat myself, since you chose to ignore the relevant point: "No shit the experience is different. The point that you don't want to recognize is that both LOTR and SCII use the trilogy structure in storytelling, and there's nothing inherently wrong with the trilogy structure."

Are you trying to be obtuse again? CoD had multiple single-player campaigns packaged in a single game, which is exactly the opposite of what Blizzard is doing with Starcraft 2.

Are you being obtuse? I never said that playing as more than one race was exclusive to multiplayer.

Jesus, I just listed the FF games off the top of my head that I remembered the most about, but go ahead let's compare FF1-FF13, are you going to say that it is the same gaming experience over and over 13 times? No, ok, so it proves my point.

No it doesn't, because we're talking about SCII's expansions, not sequels. So it's pointless to debate with you that some of the games uses basically the same graphics engine and same turn based combat mechanics.

There's not even that much distinctly different between Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2 as a whole, and you honestly believe the the storytelling mechanics of the Protoss and Zerg campaigns are going to be distinctly different from the mechanics of the Terran compaign?

Yes, unless you think Blizzard has a history of blatantly lying in their press releases. Of course, the degree of change is up to debate, but considering that the between mission cutscene format of story telling in RTS hasn't changed since the days of DUNE II, what WOL did was already quite a difference.

Ok, I'll give you that, given they haven't stated the pricing yet, Terran campaign was $60.00 retail at launch, what do you consider is an acceptable price for the other single player campaigns? Half, $29.99, so the full Starcraft 2 single player experience is worth $120.00?

Depends. Do you think the full SC1 single player experience was worth $90 or however much it was when SC1 and BW were first released? I do, so I'll probably say that $120 is worth it for something with 50% more content.

A trilogy Starcraft 2 is not, you can call it that all day long to make yourself feel better about your beloved Blizzard, but that won't change that fact. I gotta hand it to you for spearheading the idea on these boards for Blizzard though, your brand loyalty is commendable in a weird way.

Funny, cuz I hate every other franchise Blizzard produces. It's cute that you're trying to justify your own ignorance by making me out as a blizzard fanboi though.

This comment was edited on Mar 23, 2011, 17:57.
 
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17. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 17:39 grudgebearer
 
Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 17:01:
Agreed, but that wasn't your point when you quoted what a trilogy was. Are you intentionally trying to ignore what you said?

If you agree that they aren't the same, then why did you use it as an analogy and then get all butthurt when I said it was a horrible one?

Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 17:01:
And so does Wings of Liberty. You'd know if you played the game.

Are you trying to be obtuse again? CoD had multiple single-player campaigns packaged in a single game, which is exactly the opposite of what Blizzard is doing with Starcraft 2.

Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 17:01:
I like how you skipped quite a few FF games.

Jesus, I just listed the FF games off the top of my head that I remembered the most about, but go ahead let's compare FF1-FF13, are you going to say that it is the same gaming experience over and over 13 times? No, ok, so it proves my point.


Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 17:01:
Also, did you forget what I said about SCII's expansion having distinctly different structure, gameplay, and storytelling mechanics? Keep in mind, we're talking about SCII's expansions, so the point is moot anyways

There's not even that much distinctly different between Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2 as a whole, and you honestly believe the the storytelling mechanics of the Protoss and Zerg campaigns are going to be distinctly different from the mechanics of the Terran compaign?

Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 17:01:
Wrong again. They're not charging full price (where do you get all these retarded assumptions anyways?), and considering each expansion has the story and content of the full game, it's hardly "breaking a single game into thirds".

Ok, I'll give you that, given they haven't stated the pricing yet, Terran campaign was $60.00 retail at launch, what do you consider is an acceptable price for the other single player campaigns? Half, $29.99, so the full Starcraft 2 single player experience is worth $120.00?

A trilogy Starcraft 2 is not, you can call it that all day long to make yourself feel better about your beloved Blizzard, but that won't change that fact. I gotta hand it to you for spearheading the idea on these boards for Blizzard though, your brand loyalty is commendable in a weird way.
 
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16. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 17:24 Yifes
 
Jay wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 17:11:
You can't blame the players for expecting what's essentially the norm.

I'm not blaming players for wanting the norm. I'm blaming them for the ignorant out-of-touch-with-reality bullshit that they continue to spew even though the game has been out for 6 months.

Splitting a single game into 3 parts? What single RTS game in history has 3x the equivalent content of SC1 with 3 full storylines and ~90 missions? SC1 had 1 storyline, told from 3 perspectives.

Full priced games? Yeah lets just continue to bitch about something that was never true in the first place.

Only play as the humans? Yeah lets just ignore the fact that there's also a protoss campaign in the first game.

SCII:WOL is every bit the full game as SC1, except you don't get to play as the zerg in the campaign (the trade off is more than worth it though). But that's never what these people bitch about. I guess when enough lazy idiots repeat the same myths enough times, it becomes true for them.

This comment was edited on Mar 23, 2011, 17:40.
 
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15. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 17:11 Jay
 
I think the reason why a lot of people don't see SC2 as a "whole" game is because traditionally a RTS features a single player campaign that lets you play all the factions present in the game. Dawn of War pulled the same thing. Everyone was asking "where's my orc campaign?"
You can't blame the players for expecting what's essentially the norm.
 
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14. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 17:01 Yifes
 
Movies and books /= video games

Agreed, but that wasn't your point when you quoted what a trilogy was. Are you intentionally trying to ignore what you said?

Again, horrible examples. CoD 1, 2, 3 all had multiple campaigns from differing perspective, American, British, Russian, etc.

And so does Wings of Liberty. You'd know if you played the game.

Final Fantasy...did you ever even play 1,2, and 3? How about 7, 9, and 12? Are you really proposing that those are all the same exact game with no changes in game engine, mechanics or graphics, really?

I like how you skipped quite a few FF games. Also, did you forget what I said about SCII's expansion having distinctly different structure, gameplay, and storytelling mechanics? Keep in mind, we're talking about SCII's expansions, so the point is moot anyways.

Lord of the Rings, really, a movie, that is what you are going to go back to let met put this in caps in red for you since for some reason you have a tough time understanding CINEMATIC EXPERIENCES ARE NOT THE SAME AS VIDEO GAME EXPERIENCES AND SHOULD NOT BE JUDGED AS SUCH

No shit the experience is different. The point that you don't want to recognize is that both LOTR and SCII use the trilogy structure in storytelling, and there's nothing inherently wrong with the trilogy structure.

The point is that you can't break a single game into thirds, charge full price for each portion, and say "Voila! Trilogy!" That's just not how it works.

Wrong again. They're not charging full price for the expansions (where do you get all these retarded assumptions anyways?), and considering each expansion has the story and content of a full game, it's hardly "breaking a single game into thirds".

This comment was edited on Mar 23, 2011, 17:12.
 
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13. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 16:48 grudgebearer
 
Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 16:30:

So, by the definition that you gave me, from google, it's a trilogy. What's your point?

Movies and books /= video games, are intentionally trying to be obtuse?

Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 16:30:
Call of Duty? Final Fantasy? How much did movie making technology and special effects change between the LOTOR movies?

Again, horrible examples. CoD 1, 2, 3 all had multiple campaigns from differing perspective, American, British, Russian, etc.. If they had taken each campaign in a single CoD and tried to sell it individually, would you have considered it a trilogy and paid $60 for each campaign? But this is Blizzard, so it's different right?

Final Fantasy...did you ever even play 1,2, and 3? How about 7, 9, and 12? Are you really proposing that those are all the same exact game with no changes in game engine, mechanics or graphics, really?

Lord of the Rings, really, a movie, that is what you are going to go back to let met put this in caps in red for you since for some reason you have a tough time understanding CINEMATIC EXPERIENCES ARE NOT THE SAME AS VIDEO GAME EXPERIENCES AND SHOULD NOT BE JUDGED AS SUCH

Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 16:30:
No shit the other games are expansions. That's what they officially are. You think that Blizzard is trying to rip you off by releasing 2 expansions instead of one? Is that your problem? The story is in the form of a trilogy, so what's your point?

The point is that you can't break a single game into thirds, charge full price for each portion, and say "Voila! Trilogy!" That's just not how it works.

This comment was edited on Mar 23, 2011, 16:56.
 
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12. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 16:30 Yifes
 
grudgebearer wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 16:21:
Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 16:03:
Wrong. Because, by your own definition: "A trilogy is three separate but complete works that are related. Hence, with star wars, you can watch each movie by itself and have a full movie experience."

It's not "my" definition of trilogy, it's the definition of a trilogy.

So, by the definition that you gave me, from google, it's a trilogy. What's your point?

Can you you name any other gaming franchise of 2 or more games where gameplay, graphics, or some other technology didn't change?
Call of Duty? Final Fantasy? How much did movie making technology and special effects change between the LOTOR movies?

Then at best it is an expansion on an existing game, not a trilogy.
No shit the other games are expansions. That's what they officially are. You think that Blizzard is trying to rip you off by releasing 2 expansions instead of one? Is that your problem? The story is in the form of a trilogy, told in 1 game and 2 expansions, so what's your point?

This comment was edited on Mar 23, 2011, 16:40.
 
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11. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 16:21 grudgebearer
 
Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 16:03:
Wrong. Because, by your own definition: "A trilogy is three separate but complete works that are related. Hence, with star wars, you can watch each movie by itself and have a full movie experience."

It's not "my" definition of trilogy, it's the definition of a trilogy.

Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 16:03:
Starcraft 2 Wings of Liberty is a full experience. It is the story of how Jim Raynor seeks redemption for what happened to Sarah Kerrigan. This gets resolved, and just like in a New Hope, it ends with a decisive victory on the part of the rebels that ties up the storyarch introduced in this portion of the trilogy.

Can you you name any other gaming franchise of 2 or more games where gameplay, graphics, or some other technology didn't change? How about the Civilization series? Or Quake? Or even Diablo, that's a trilogy? Now, how about with this Starcraft 2 "trilogy", any changes in the engine, graphics, anything other than the additional single player campaign portion? No? Then at best it is an expansion on an existing game, not a trilogy.

Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 16:03:
But of course, you'd know this if you played fucking the game. And you ignored the fact that each expansion has its own distinct structure, gameplay and storytelling mechanics.

The more more ignorant you are, the more bullshit you spew.

Ahhhh profanity...the last bastion of the ignorant...
 
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10. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 16:03 Yifes
 
grudgebearer wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 15:49:

I'll grab it when all three parts are out and the full game is being sold for a reasonable price. I played the demo, I have no problem waiting.

And having an ending to the campaign suddenly makes it a trilogy? At best, you could call the other two parts expansions, but a trilogy it is not, no matter how far you try to stretch it.

Wrong. Because, by your own definition: "A trilogy is three separate but complete works that are related. Hence, with star wars, you can watch each movie by itself and have a full movie experience."

Starcraft 2 Wings of Liberty is a full experience. It is the story of how Jim Raynor seeks redemption for what happened to Sarah Kerrigan. This gets resolved, and just like in a New Hope, it ends with a decisive victory on the part of the rebels that ties up the storyarch introduced in this portion of the trilogy.

But of course, you'd know this if you played the fucking game. And you ignored the fact that each expansion has its own distinct structure, gameplay and storytelling mechanics.

It's immediately obvious that you have never played the game, because otherwise you wouldn't be spewing so much ignorant bullshit.

Get the fuck out and come back when you know something.

This comment was edited on Mar 23, 2011, 16:17.
 
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9. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 15:49 grudgebearer
 
Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 15:36:

Have you even played the campaign? Probably not, because guess what? there's a conclusion to the Raynor-Tychus-Kerrigan storyarch. And calling Starcraft 2 a "single experience" is just ignorance, considering each expansion will have its own distinct structure and between mission storytelling mechanic.

I'll grab it when all three parts are out and the full game is being sold for a reasonable price. I played the demo, I have no problem waiting.

And having an ending to the campaign suddenly makes it a trilogy? At best, you could call the other two parts expansions, but a trilogy it is not, no matter how far you try to stretch it.

Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 15:36:
Finally, before you start calling other people "fanboi", you might want to cover up your 40K avatar. Your prejudice is showing.

ROFL, yeah, because me enjoying 40k fiction, along with being a fan of Linux, means that Blizzard splitting a single game into three releases isn't just a way to get people to pay more money for what amounts a a single gaming experience? Sound logic.

Keep digging dude maybe you will come out the other side...
 
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- Harlon Nayl
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8. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 15:36 Yifes
 
grudgebearer wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 15:31:
Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 15:22:

Wrong. Maybe you don't understand what a trilogy is.

A trilogy is three separate but complete works that are related. Hence, with star wars, you can watch each movie by itself and have a full movie experience.

Starcraft 2 on the otherhand, judging it against the precedence of the original and the common definition of a 'trilogy', is a single experience that has been broken into three parts.

Just because you split something into three portions, doesn't make it a trilogy there fanboi.

Have you even played the campaign? Probably not, because guess what? there's a conclusion to the Raynor-Tychus-Kerrigan storyarch. And calling Starcraft 2 a "single experience" is just ignorance, considering each expansion will have its own distinct structure and between mission storytelling mechanic.

Finally, before you start calling other people "fanboi", you might want to cover up your 40K avatar. Your prejudice is showing.

This comment was edited on Mar 23, 2011, 15:52.
 
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7. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 15:31 grudgebearer
 
Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 15:22:

Wrong. Maybe you don't understand what a trilogy is.

A trilogy is three separate but complete works that are related. Hence, with star wars, you can watch each movie by itself and have a full movie experience.

Starcraft 2 on the otherhand, judging it against the precedence of the original and the common definition of a 'trilogy', is a single experience that has been broken into three parts.

Just because you split something into three portions, doesn't make it a trilogy there fanboi.
 
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'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?'
- Harlon Nayl
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6. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 15:22 Yifes
 
grudgebearer wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 15:09:
Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 09:04:
I bet you were the one guy in 1977 who was pissed that Star Wars was going to be 3 movies. A trilogy, what a dumb idea.

Wow...worst analogy ever...

Wrong. It's a story told in 3 parts.
 
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5. Re: StarCraft II Patched Mar 23, 2011, 15:09 grudgebearer
 
Yifes wrote on Mar 23, 2011, 09:04:
I bet you were the one guy in 1977 who was pissed that Star Wars was going to be 3 movies. A trilogy, what a dumb idea.

Wow...worst analogy ever...
 
Avatar 17580
 
'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?'
- Harlon Nayl
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