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Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You

Reacting to Eurogamer's interpretation of his comments on VentureBeat from earlier today, John Romero tweets a clarification that he is not leaving the world of hardcore gaming behind for good:

I am not done making hardcore games, Eurogamer.

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39. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 15:14 avianflu
 
Reading this, I suspect much of Romero's 'Doom' money is long spent. Those Doom and Quake guys made a ton of $$ through direct sales via shareware. Think he's just trying to figure out to pay the bills these days.
 
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38. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 13:24 Beamer
 

im still waiting for romero to redeem himself. he has not done anything as successful and influential as quake.

Oh yeah, I mean, I don't think he's a bad guy, I think he's earned some reprieve from the hell he gets, and I think he's capable of doing something very fun again, but I wouldn't stake my job on it and I wouldn't be very quick to give him money.

If he was willing to be co-designer and work somewhere that kept some tight reign on him I'd be pretty excited, but after the whole Gauntlet situation (where I'm assuming the reign was too tight) I doubt that'll ever happen. Maybe Tom Hall is the right guy for this, then. Maybe having Tom Hall be the guy that does the less glamorous stuff and keeps the project focused while John goes nuts with some ideas (hopefully in the multiplayer area) good things would come.

But considering it looks like they're going casual, yeah.
 
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37. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 12:48 FooAtari
 
Wraith wrote on Mar 4, 2011, 08:20:
Utter bilge. Doom and Quake were pure technical achievements. Nothing more. In gameplay they were as simplistic as Wolfenstein. Take away the technical genius of John Carmack and what do you have? Below-average games devoid of innovation.

Bilge? Regardless of how much you enjoyed the games surely you can't argue that they were hugely influential and had a large impact on PC gaming. It brought PC gaming to the mainstream and elevated it to an equal platform as consoles in terms of exposure and as a viable format to publish games on for those developers that were not doing so already.

As for being devoid of innovation, this was the early-mid 90's remember, what exactly did you expect? It was a pure run and gun action FPS. That's the way the game was intended to be. Were you PC gamer then? Surely Doom impressed you on some level? How's about their implementation of multi player as innovation? The word death-match is synonymous with FPS's now. We had never seen a game like it before.

Quake had potential they never exploited. They set up the Elder Gods mythos then did NOTHING with it. Oh look a creature - bang! Oh look a trap. Woe is me. Oh look a door. Guess I'd better open that.

Yeah Quake was more of a technical achievement. Which perhaps shouldn't be surprising when Carmack had more control and influence during it's development. And throughout Quake development Romero was already thinking about leaving the company. Of course this was partly his own fault as he spent more time massaging his ego than working on the game by this stage.

Romero gets shit for being a conceited air-head who can't deliver. The only 'game design' he ever did was level editing. Nothing more.

He did more with Doom than level editing. It was his vision and his ideas.

(I mean, seriously... Doom IV guys? Really? It's been 15 years. Let it go.)

Mario, Zelda, Need for Speed and a shed load more games would like a word with you there. Personally I'm quite excited at the thought of another game. Although if it's another Doom 3 it won't be anything special.

This comment was edited on Mar 14, 2011, 06:13.
 
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36. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 12:30 zirik
 
im still waiting for romero to redeem himself. he has not done anything as successful and influential as quake. his time at eidos was spent wasting investors money by hiring prima donnas who could not deliver a finished product. so yeah, his reputation is still questionable to many people. and to those who say id software was never the same after the release of quake. yes they were never the same company because a lot of people left id software at the same time. so you can never say it was only romero who caused the change at id software.  
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35. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 09:56 sauron
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 4, 2011, 09:49:
Quake had no style. That was part of the problem. I'd fully give Quake credit to the technology and the multiplayer design.

I'd say it had a distinctive visual style (Sandy Petersen's influence, probably), but no plot or story. Not that it really needed either since the gameplay was so good.

And re. John Romero, now he's gonna make you his b***h on Facebook and other leading social media outlets, in a nonthreatening and quietly inoffensive manner acceptable to mainstream America. Ooo, I can hardly wait.
 
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34. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 09:49 Beamer
 


Quake didn't succeed because of style.

Quake had no style. That was part of the problem. I'd fully give Quake credit to the technology and the multiplayer design.
I think Romero had little power in the company around the Quake times, if I remember Master's of Doom correctly, and if that was factual in the first place. But Quake was certainly more technology and less game, and it was perfect just like that because the technology was so insanely groundbreaking.

I don't hate Romero, but I don't see anything he's ever done merits his status as some legendary game designer because he just isn't apart from being at the right place at the right time and that's called luck.

I still say Doom puts him there. Doom's design was legendary. Doom would not have happened without Romero.
 
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33. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 09:47 nin
 

Quake didn't succeed because of style. It succeeded because it was one of the first 3D shooters and of it's modability.


I'll add that it succeed because #1, it was fun, and #2, the moment ANYONE saw glquake running, they shit themselves and said "I want that, and I don't care what it costs me."
 
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32. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 09:45 Cutter
 
Quake didn't succeed because of style. It succeeded because it was one of the first 3D shooters and of it's modability. Hell, I stil remember picking up my Diamond Monster at lunch hour, heading back to the office - I was working at an ISP at the time - and we installed it on a machine and fired up Quake and all oohed and ahhed and all the other techs ran out and bought cards that day as well. And CTF and Hook really skyrockted that game to fame. And lastly, there just wasn't anything being produced anywhere close to the volume of games we see now so coupled with that golden nostalgic feeling those games from then seem a lot greater than they were.

I don't hate Romero, but I don't see anything he's ever done merits his status as some legendary game designer because he just isn't apart from being at the right place at the right time and that's called luck. There are plenty of accidental millionaires out there.
 
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31. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 09:45 Beamer
 
Are you under the impression that people hate Romero because of that line?

That was the turning point, and that was also Mike Wilson.

People loved Romero prior to that. They were iffy on some things, but willing to overlook it. That line changed it. Suddenly the things we looked past were flat-out obnoxious.

I genuinely believe he would have had a different career path without that ad. Ion Storm would have still failed but Romero would have bounced back better. His ego would have been more intact (don't ever doubt how much of an impact your own ego can have over your career) and investors and/or employers would have been easier to find to do a real project.



Now, did he deserve the backlash? Yeah, maybe his ego had gotten way too big (understatement), maybe the ad fully deserved the response, and maybe some straw as going to break that camel's back sooner or later. But since he's kind of become a tragic figure worthy of sympathy rather than worthy of hate.
 
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30. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 09:23 InBlack
 
"Im not done being John Romero"  
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I have a nifty blue line!
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29. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 09:04 Kajetan
 
Wraith wrote on Mar 4, 2011, 08:20:
You can tell he's edited his own Wikipedia pages because it gives him credit for games he never even touched. Like Half-Life.
And you know that Romero edited this page, because ...?
 
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28. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 08:38 Beamer
 
Utter bilge. Doom and Quake were pure technical achievements. Nothing more. In gameplay they were as simplistic as Wolfenstein. Take away the technical genius of John Carmack and what do you have? Below-average games devoid of innovation.

I'm going to call bullshit on that. Wolfenstein was popular but didn't light the world on fire.

It was the darkness in theme and atmosphere that did it, along with the weapons. Nothing like it had been done before, sure technically, but if it was still killing nazis in a castle it wouldn't have been such an enormous sensation.


 
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27. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 08:20 Wraith
 
FooAtari wrote on Mar 4, 2011, 04:06:
And so what if his most successful games were released over a decade ago, he still designed some of the most important and influential PC games ever. That alone deserves some attention and respect.
Utter bilge. Doom and Quake were pure technical achievements. Nothing more. In gameplay they were as simplistic as Wolfenstein. Take away the technical genius of John Carmack and what do you have? Below-average games devoid of innovation.

Quake had potential they never exploited. They set up the Elder Gods mythos then did NOTHING with it. Oh look a creature - bang! Oh look a trap. Woe is me. Oh look a door. Guess I'd better open that.

FooAtari wrote:
I think he get's a lot of shit for a few bad decisions and mistakes, some of which were not even down to him. As previously mentioned the whole "make you his bitch" thing was NOT his idea.
Romero gets shit for being a conceited air-head who can't deliver. The only 'game design' he ever did was level editing. Nothing more. For him to try and elevate this and call himself a 'game designer' is the height of hubris. You can tell he's edited his own Wikipedia pages because it gives him credit for games he never even touched. Like Half-Life.

FooAtari wrote:
id were never the same when Romero left.
You're right - in Romero's absence, Quake II was marginally more entertaining than Quake was. Unfortunately, ID is yet to mature into a company which engages in actual game design, so the last ten years have largely been increasingly technically impressive iterations of everything they've done before.

(I mean, seriously... Doom IV guys? Really? It's been 15 years. Let it go.)
 
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26. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 04:06 FooAtari
 
Mead wrote on Mar 4, 2011, 02:12:
One need only look to his last successful, fun game. Was it Doom II? Welp.

Quake

And so what if his most successful games were released over a decade ago, he still designed some of the most important and influential PC games ever. That alone deserves some attention and respect.

I think he gets a lot of shit for a few bad decisions and mistakes, some of which were not even down to him. As previously mentioned the whole "make you his bitch" thing was NOT his idea.

id were never the same when Romero left. Together the two Johns were awesome. Romero needed someone who could design an engine where he could bring his ideas to reality and Carmack needed a designer who could use his engines to the maximum. A real shame that their ideals at the time where polar opposites as on their own the games they output are not as good as those they did together.

This comment was edited on Mar 14, 2011, 06:16.
 
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25. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 04:01 PacoTaco
 
SirKnight wrote on Mar 3, 2011, 21:40:
PacoTaco wrote on Mar 3, 2011, 20:55:
The term is grifter, Romero has stolen more money using id software in his bio then anyone in the history of video games, he almost never delivers, and if he does it horrible. Why is he doing this well the dumbest money availble to him is Social Gaming venture funding, he only made that tweet to indicate that he will attempt to steal more money in the future for a high end PC title if he can.


Obviously you don't have a clue what the word stolen means. WTF?

Could be true, lets see.

Grifter = swindler: a person who swindles you by means of deception or fraud

Stolen = To have taken money or property that doesn't belong to you.

Anyone that gives Homero a dime deserves to be donkey punched continuously until the fools head falls off. Sorry Romero hasn't done shit for the industry other then suck in a lot of dumb money and never deliver anything worth playing or even talking about.

Review his history and talk to the people that have worked with him, get the truth. When 100 out of 100 people say the same thing about a guy you might want to consider changing your opinion.

I just feel bad for the people that don't realize that he is a dead beat, I was hoping after Slipgate that he would have gotten enough money that he would retire.

 
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24. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 03:27 Kajetan
 
Sepharo wrote on Mar 3, 2011, 23:52:
Are you under the impression that people hate Romero because of that line?
Then, why do they "hate" him?
 
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23. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 4, 2011, 02:12 Mead
 
Prez wrote on Mar 3, 2011, 23:47:
Actually this guy gets way more attention than he's worth. Aside from the Daikatana fiasco and buying new tits for a red-head hottie (or so the story goes...), what the hell has he done that is commensurate with all the notoriety/infamy? Doom was a loooong time ago...
Almost read that backward, but yeah, that's a great point.

One need only look to his last successful, fun game. Was it Doom II? Welp.
 
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22. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 3, 2011, 23:52 Sepharo
 
SirKnight wrote on Mar 3, 2011, 21:38:
I still don't understand why there's so much hate for this guy. He's done more for gaming then any of these haters could ever dream of doing.

The make you his bitch thing, as he has said many times, was not his idea and he originally did not want to do it.

Are you under the impression that people hate Romero because of that line?
 
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21. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 3, 2011, 23:47 Prez
 
Actually this guy gets way more attention than he's worth. Aside from the Daikatana fiasco and buying new tits for a red-head hottie (or so the story goes...), what the hell has he done that is commensurate with all the notoriety/infamy? Doom was a loooong time ago...  
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20. Re: Hardcore: Romero's Not Done With You Mar 3, 2011, 22:36 Kosumo
 
His new hardcore game should be "Charlie Sheen - The Game" with DLC called "I'll make you my Bitch"  
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