35 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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| 35. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 21, 2011, 04:08 |
Zoom |
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| They should at least read up a bit what people have to say about open world CRPG's or at least "semi open" and why people still cite Gothic 2 or Risen as good examples to follow. And following an example means, going beyond the original, not removing features (precisely why Gothic 4 was such a failure)... And yes eye candy is a bit secondary, IMHO they reached a very nice level with Risen, now concentrate on a more extended writing and a compelling story pretty please ? |
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| 34. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 20:38 |
Steele Johnson |
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StingingVelvet wrote on Feb 19, 2011, 15:57:
He's right that people consider a 7 to mean an average game.
Absolutely. People naturally think in the range 1 through 5 when evaluating something. I don't know who in hell came up with 1 through 10; they should be shot! 
The problem with 1 through 10 is that anything under a 6 isn't worth a dime. So if you exclude 1 through 5, you have 6 though 10 left. This is now your 1 through 5. 
So if 6 through 10 is really 1 through 5, I'd say 7 could be considered average where 8 is right down the middle. If every review site agreed to use 1 through 5 we'd all be happy.
What bothers me even more, is that some sites actually add fractions. I can't believe that they'd think a 5.2 is better than a 5. No one would buy the game either way. |
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| 33. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 19:37 |
Jerykk |
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In the absence of actual standards, common usage and common understanding become the defacto standard. The common understanding is that 70% is an average to mediocre game and 50% is a poor game.
Except that's not true. When score uses a 0-10 scale, anything below 70% is considered utter crap. However, if a score uses a 0-5 scale, 3 is considered average, even though it represents 60%. Depending on the scale used, the percentages represent very different things. |
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| 32. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 19:32 |
StingingVelvet |
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Verno wrote on Feb 20, 2011, 18:14:
I'm not excusing their behavior but the Metacritic "only 8/10 is acceptable" that both the industry and many consumers are operating under is totally flawed.
It's just a shame to see a smaller publisher obsess over it as much as EA does. You would think selling 2 million copies before the game even came out in the US and UK would be satisfying enough. |
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| 31. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 18:14 |
Verno |
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| I'm not excusing their behavior but the Metacritic "only 8/10 is acceptable" that both the industry and many consumers are operating under is totally flawed. |
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Playing: Faster Than Light, Tales of Graces F, Fire Emblem 3DS
Watching: Ghost in the Shell, Hannibal, Oblivion |
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| 30. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 14:47 |
avianflu |
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The topware rep actually makes a good point in his rebuttal: a 5 out of 10 is not 'average' to almost anyone asked on the planet. Their review system is decidedly odd.
The rep of course denies making any blackmail statements so who knows what happened there. |
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| 29. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 13:21 |
Blackhawk |
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In an industry where reviews are one to four stars, one to five stars, 1-10, 1-100, positive versus negative, three tentacles up and a dozen other quirky variants it is pointless to use the word 'standards'. Reviewers don't have an industry defined 'standard'.
In the absence of actual standards, common usage and common understanding become the defacto standard. The common understanding is that 70% is an average to mediocre game and 50% is a poor game.
If one or two media outlets want to go against the common understanding as a way of waving some idealistic banner, that's fine. They can be idealists. They should, however, realize that their scores don't match the rest of the system that they'll be measured against, which makes those scores irrelevant. They're the +/- x% variation that should be ignored. |
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| 28. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 13:04 |
Prez |
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| Personally I wish I had an option of not viewing review scores and just reading the review, and basing my purchase solely on that. As soon as I see a number, which like pretty much everyone else I look at before reading the view, it lessens the impact of the review itself. If the game got a 6.5 out of 10, but the reviewer's main gripe was something that doesn't bother me at all or in fact is something I like, that 6.5 is irrelevant to me. My personal score might be more like an 7.5, and 8, or even a 9 - it depends on the game. But that number is always what sticks out and taints my interpretation of the words that comprise the meat of the review, which is a shame. |
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| 27. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 12:50 |
StingingVelvet |
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spindoctor wrote on Feb 20, 2011, 12:07:
To us, maybe. But it matters to others. Some consumers will use the numbers to make their purchasing decisions.
Oh I know, and I know publishers and developers obsess over them as well. It's quite depressing.
Destructoid of all sites just put up a good article on this Two Worlds 2 thing with lots of supposed inside info. |
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| 26. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 12:07 |
spindoctor |
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StingingVelvet wrote on Feb 20, 2011, 11:35:
The numbers are all pointless anyway, let's be honest.
To us, maybe. But it matters to others. Some consumers will use the numbers to make their purchasing decisions. It might not matter for the 8/10 or 9/10 games, but it could affect sales of a 6/10 rated game where a consumer might be on the fence. Those sales could be the difference between being in the red or black. Likewise, publishers use Metacritic scores as a metric of how good the game is. They could use it as one of the criterion to decide whether or not a sequel gets made. That in turn can affect the developers... not trying to be overly dramatic here but that variation of 2 points on a 10 point scale could be the difference between 2 more years of gainful employment for the studio versus being out of a job.
The numbers might not be an accurate representation of the quality, but they can have consequences and that's why publishers care so much about them. |
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| Some of the most miserable and unhappy gamers on the planet are at Bluesnews |
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| 25. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 11:35 |
StingingVelvet |
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| The numbers are all pointless anyway, let's be honest. |
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| 24. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 09:51 |
spindoctor |
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Jerykk wrote on Feb 20, 2011, 08:14:
Somebody needs to take a stand. Just because most reviewers have flawed scoring standards doesn't make those standards any less flawed. On a scale of 0 through 10, 5 is average. More reviewers need to understand that and put it into practice. If publishers don't appreciate logical and accurate scoring, that's their problem.
Like I said, if that site is consistent in using the entire 0-10 scale for all their reviews, then Topware has no right to complain. However, if they are being singled out then it's wrong (even if the average is mathematically correct). That's why I want to know which sites are alleging this impropriety, because as far as I know, there aren't very many sites that actually use the 0-10 scale properly. |
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| Some of the most miserable and unhappy gamers on the planet are at Bluesnews |
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| 23. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 08:14 |
Jerykk |
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Whether or not the publisher asked for the review scores to be changed, they are right in saying that a 5/10 review would be akin to calling it a bad game in today's gaming media. The reviewer has the right to call it an average game but he would also know that scoring it a 5/10 would be interpreted differently.
Somebody needs to take a stand. Just because most reviewers have flawed scoring standards doesn't make those standards any less flawed. On a scale of 0 through 10, 5 is average. More reviewers need to understand that and put it into practice. If publishers don't appreciate logical and accurate scoring, that's their problem. |
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| 22. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 05:16 |
spindoctor |
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Whether or not the publisher asked for the review scores to be changed, they are right in saying that a 5/10 review would be akin to calling it a bad game in today's gaming media. The reviewer has the right to call it an average game but he would also know that scoring it a 5/10 would be interpreted differently.
I would really be interested in finding out which sites/reviewers are involved in this. Just to see whether they do in fact use the 0-5 part of the scale as much as they probably use the 6-10. If they regularly give 0-5 scores of bad/average games, then the Two Worlds 2 score would be fine. If, however, they are like most sites that usually stay in the 7-10 range, then it would be disingenuous to give this game a 5 if they actually consider it just average. |
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| Some of the most miserable and unhappy gamers on the planet are at Bluesnews |
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| 21. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 05:07 |
StingingVelvet |
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Jerykk wrote on Feb 19, 2011, 23:06:
As for Two Worlds 2, I lost interest pretty quickly. I like open-world RPGs but from what I've played thus far, TW2 just seems completely mediocre and forgettable. The characters, the story, the setting, the action, the roleplaying... it doesn't stand out in any significant way. I like the crafting system and the magic system is interesting but those things aren't enough to make a compelling game.
Pretty much. The magic system stands out and is awesome... not just making your own by combining effects, but also having to hunt for those effect cards adds reason to explore. The middle-eastern look of the second island and the Japanese look of the third island were cool and different from most RPGs.
In the end though it's a thoroughly average game, no doubt about it. I don't regret my 20 or so hours in it and I will probably finish it before Dragon Age 2 comes out, but at the end of the day it isn't something I'm at all passionate about. The sad thing is that in the articles about this review "controversy" the Topware guy talks about improving the animations and CGI so that they will have an even better game next time, but that's not at all what they need to improve. |
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| 20. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 05:04 |
StingingVelvet |
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wtf_man wrote on Feb 19, 2011, 19:10:
I've read several reviews that say the controls are 'teh suq' (mouse and keyboard).
Is this still true or did any of the patches fix this?
I didn't have any issues with controls, it's pretty standard. |
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| 19. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 03:29 |
Jerykk |
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It is pretty interesting to compare the different scoring systems. Some sites use a 5 point system. Under this system, if a game gets a 3/5, people consider it average, perhaps even solid. However, convert that into the 10 point scale and all of a sudden, the game gets a 6, which people consider terrible.
It would probably be easier if everyone switched to a 5 point scale. It would be used more accurately and leaves less ambiguity. |
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| 18. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 03:01 |
Draugr |
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Jerykk wrote on Feb 19, 2011, 23:06:
He's right that people consider a 7 to mean an average game.
Actually, I think most people consider 8 to be an average game, judging by the outrage seen on forums when a high-profile game gets less than a 9.
In truth, the whole scoring system used by most reviewers is completely broken. The scale is effectively 6-10, with 6 being awful and 10 being awesome. With that being the case, there's no reason to even have 0-5. The BeefJack website was correct in using 5 to represent an average score. When the range is 0-10, 5 is average and that's how it should be.
I've always been fascinated by this, I would say one strong reason could be the grades system in the US,(can't comment elsewhere) which essentially uses that model. Of course, with grades it makes sense as to why that is.
Whenever I rate something on a scale of 10 I always tell the people I'm speaking with that 5 is the average. |
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| 17. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 20, 2011, 00:58 |
entr0py |
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I don't think game publishers have any business harassing reviewers, even if it is to complain about their scoring system. If they go that far there is an implicit threat of withholding review copies or cutting future advertising.
That being said, there's a tremendous difference between what TopWare admits to and what they were accused of. But anonymous accusations offered without proof are not really adequate. It would be nice to see the website in question release any incriminating correspondence directly. If everyone in the gaming media took that attitude, they could be free of publisher bullying. |
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| 16. |
Re: Two Worlds II Review Flap, Sequel Revealed |
Feb 19, 2011, 23:06 |
Jerykk |
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He's right that people consider a 7 to mean an average game.
Actually, I think most people consider 8 to be an average game, judging by the outrage seen on forums when a high-profile game gets less than a 9.
In truth, the whole scoring system used by most reviewers is completely broken. The scale is effectively 6-10, with 6 being awful and 10 being awesome. With that being the case, there's no reason to even have 0-5. The BeefJack website was correct in using 5 to represent an average score. When the range is 0-10, 5 is average and that's how it should be.
As for Two Worlds 2, I lost interest pretty quickly. I like open-world RPGs but from what I've played thus far, TW2 just seems completely mediocre and forgettable. The characters, the story, the setting, the action, the roleplaying... it doesn't stand out in any significant way. I like the crafting system and the magic system is interesting but those things aren't enough to make a compelling game.
I wish more developers would follow the New Vegas approach to RPGs:
1) Diplomacy, stealth and violence should be equally viable ways to play through the game.
2) Quests should be open-ended and have branching paths.
3) Morality should be ambiguous and there shouldn't be any arbitrary morality systems that reward the player for going to the extreme ends of the spectrum.
4) Choices should have meaningful consequences beyond just loot and XP.
5) The player should be able to choose their ultimate goal and not be forced into a single ending.
6) The player should have complete control over their character and know exactly what they're going to say or do at any given moment.
This comment was edited on Feb 19, 2011, 23:15. |
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35 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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