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Sunday Metaverse

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19. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 6, 2010, 19:25 eRe4s3r
 
I entirely agree with you Sepharo, a clean non ANTI_US agenda leak site would be much more worthwhile. Not to mention wouldn't only focus so much on "we got the bigger one about US ******** something or another" leaks that seem to overflood the entire site.

But as its a wiki competitive sites will pop up, last time i checked one is even starting in January.

Not to mention that Assange is a TERRIBLE head men for a leak site like this, hes publicity hungry egomaniac. He doesn't care what public views him as or what wikileaks "employees" think about him. A true smart person would have walked right to Interpol HQ with cameras in tow and say, here i am, lets clear this rape bullshit up. But Assange would never do that, he would never admit that he has done something wrong.
 
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18. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 6, 2010, 19:10 Sepharo
 
I understand what you're saying Beamer.

You would have liked for the truly revelatory "important" things to come up. Clear cases where our government lied to us but not simply everything.

I just don't think it should be up to WikiLeaks or anyone else to decide the narrative that comes from these leaks. It's best to just leak it all and let the journalists and patriots crawl through it.

That being said, I am very disappointed with Assange's venom towards the U.S. government. He definetly sees them as an enemy and has stated that he does intend to do harm. I'd rather a pure "information should be free" type be handling this than someone so decidedly anti U.S.


 
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17. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 6, 2010, 15:48 El Pit
 
No, Beamer. Mindless people are people who judge and give their vote based on false, forked, and incomplete information. This makes a vote worthless, it turns democracy into a bad joke. That's what you're asking for. I don't. I'm with PHJF on this one.  
Consoles? I owned two: a Pong clone and an Atari 2600. And that's it.
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16. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 6, 2010, 15:18 PHJF
 
"Honesty is the best policy."

-Some Dude

Politics is a realm exclusively dominated by liars and swindlers. Anything at all which pierces their shroud, even a little, is worth defending. As a US citizen, members of the US Government REPRESENT me. They have NO RIGHT AT ALL to secrecy.
 
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15. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 6, 2010, 13:27 Beamer
 
And this is why I called you guys "mindless," because you're mindlessly thinking all leaks are good leaks rather than considering that some leaks are really bad and should not have been made, and that Assange is a douchebag for not paying attention to that.


If he has a document right now that details every single US intelligence operative operating throughout the world, complete with their location and photographs, as well as photographs of every single FBI and police officer working undercover in the US, and he releases it, is that a good thing? Do we have a right and duty to know this?



No?


Then why the fuck should we have a right to read a document detailing every single location the US government feels it's particularly vulnerable, as was recently released?
 
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14. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 6, 2010, 13:25 Beamer
 
Beamer, I just don't see what you are up against.

All of those diplomatic cables.

How are you guys not getting that I'm not against the concept of Wikileaks but the execution. Those diplomatic cables were NOT a good thing to release! Are you guys following this at all, or are you assuming everything they've put out ties to the war? Their most recent release was solely diplomatic.

Imagine wikileaks would have been around when Powell presented his "proof" for wmd in the Iraq.

Well, has anything been leaked there? No? Know why? Because we had intelligence stating there were wmds. Was it good intelligence? No. Did people know this? More likely than not. Was it documented in, you know, documents? No.

Plus: You have no right to know all these things? No, you don't have the right, you got the DUTY to know these things, to have uncensored access to them, so that you can make good use of your intelligence and make your own decision.

I have a duty to know that we think the Kenyan leader is corrupt and that the Turkish First Lady has had too much plastic surgery?

Again, I'm talking about Wikileaks misuse by leaking diplomatic documents, not their war releases. I'm talking about them being irresponsible fucks.

We, the people, need access to this information.

But we had no right to get access to private intelligence reports on other world dignitaries. No more than I have a right to read your email to see what you think of your boss or your sister in law.


 
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13. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 6, 2010, 13:14 El Pit
 
Beamer, I just don't see what you are up against. Imagine wikileaks would have been around when Powell presented his "proof" for wmd in the Iraq. Just imagine what would have happened in the US. See what I mean? No war based on lies anymore. It's not about bashing coworkers - it's about life and death.

Plus: You have no right to know all these things? No, you don't have the right, you got the DUTY to know these things, to have uncensored access to them, so that you can make good use of your intelligence and make your own decision. After that, tell your representative what to do. That's the way things should work in ANY democracy - but they don't. Because access is restricted, news are MADE UP, and not simply reported. We got the right to know the truth, we got the duty to make our own minds up. That's what wikileaks is all about. We, the people, need access to this information. How shall the people decide (by vote), if they're fed wrong information, fake news, a filtered reality? See what I mean?
 
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12. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 6, 2010, 10:39 eRe4s3r
 
1) Its only bad for the US
2) Its interesting knowing what the US thinks about their lowly Allies.
3) So its common sense that the US made the climate summit fail on purpose? That it covers up weapon trades and embargo breaches? That it spies on UN personal (a crime and breach of diplomatic immunity)? So you think just because the US should not be "hurt" that they should get away with crimes and violations of International Law?

Sorry but what you just wrote Beamer speaks volumes. You'd rather remain ignorant of what happens in your country than change anything. Is this path and method by wikileaks good? Maybe not, they could just spread it to the media and only when they don't cover it properly release it to the public (I agree with you there). But doing nothing is exactly what will the end of the US and other Nations alike. Without some severe shocks and ass kicks NOTHING will ever change in the farce of a democracy we live in.

The list of vital structural targets is well known by the way, anyone with a half a brain knows where the Internet sea cables connect to Europe, how destroying a chemical plant the size of BASF plants can several hurt the entire world, or what damaging certain export routes for rare earths could do to the US.

Was this needed to be public? Who knows, fact is that all the targets in Germany on that list are already protected, because they are vital to our structural integrity as well. So this leak did no damage, it just made known what everyone who wanted to know .. already knew.
 
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11. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 6, 2010, 10:08 Beamer
 
So, people who want to know what the US REALLY thinks about foreign politicians are mindless drones?

We have no right to know these things! All putting this in the open does is mess up those relationships. If I tell your coworker that you think she's a fat cow how will work be for you the next day?

People who want to read UNCENSORED reports on the wars in Stan and Iraq are mindless drones?

How many of those were put out there relative to more damaging information? How many weren't completely obvious information we all knew. Hey Qatar doesn't like going after its own citizens! Woooo!

People who want to see UNCENSORED footage of these wars are mindless drones?

Might make you demented. There are gore websites for that kind of thing.

My, am I happy to be a mindless drone. I envy those reasonable, intelligent people who watch e.g. FOX news, though.

If you think the information leaked makes the world a better place you're a moron. No other way to say it. Everything boils down to:
1) Security risks for the US. This is bad.
2) Unflattering descriptions of world leaders from other world leaders. This is bad.
3) Completely obvious war information. This is common sense, unless you're a moron.



The damage from the first two outweighs the good from the latter. It's mind-boggling that people disagree. Blah blah "Fox News" blah blah. Again, you prove yourself a mindless drone by assuming anyone not thinking just the way you do must be a conservative and must be the enemy.


So you're not only a mindless drone but likely an insanely partisan mindless drone. Which means you're part of the problem in the US.
 
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10. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 6, 2010, 09:15 dubfanatic
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 6, 2010, 07:41:
All the people cheering wikileaks on for these current leaks are mindless drones.

I see what you did there
 
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9. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 6, 2010, 08:30 El Pit
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 6, 2010, 07:41:
How will you "OMG FREEDOM=EVERYTHING BEING ON THE INTERNET!" defend this:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101206/ts_alt_afp/usdiplomacywikileaks_20101206102522


Not a single thing in there is something we need to know. Most of it is really fucking bad for the US. The rest is all pretty obvious and common sense. How is ANYONE better for any of the information detailed here being on the internet?



All the people cheering wikileaks on for these current leaks are mindless drones. Most of you probably haven't taken any time to even read what was released.

So, people who want to know what the US REALLY thinks about foreign politicians are mindless drones? People who want to read UNCENSORED reports on the wars in Stan and Iraq are mindless drones? People who want to see UNCENSORED footage of these wars are mindless drones?

My, am I happy to be a mindless drone. I envy those reasonable, intelligent people who watch e.g. FOX news, though.
 
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8. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 6, 2010, 07:41 Beamer
 
How will you "OMG FREEDOM=EVERYTHING BEING ON THE INTERNET!" defend this:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101206/ts_alt_afp/usdiplomacywikileaks_20101206102522


Not a single thing in there is something we need to know. Most of it is really fucking bad for the US. The rest is all pretty obvious and common sense. How is ANYONE better for any of the information detailed here being on the internet?



All the people cheering wikileaks on for these current leaks are mindless drones. Most of you probably haven't taken any time to even read what was released.
 
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7. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 5, 2010, 21:01 Beamer
 
Worse? Speak for yourself!

If you like being lied to and being ignorant of it then thats your decision.

Very little showed us being lied to.
Most showed either national secrets, which should NOT be on the internet, or intelligence reports on world leaders, which should NOT be on the internet.

That makes things worse for all of us. It was reckless to release. It's so baffling that people applaud it. Yes, a small fraction of those documents should be applauded. The vast majority really fucks things up.
 
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6. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 5, 2010, 19:14 eRe4s3r
 
The reason you know the content is real is that US Government warned all foreign governments BEFORE the leak was published. Why would they do that if it wasn't real? - it means they knew what was in it.

And i know for a fact that these cables are , at least partially, real because one of the documents described a German Gov Party Worker (FDP) as informant for the US embassy, leaking German GOV Internal Information to the US embassy, and he now admitted to it and is soon to be unemployed.

Just one of many reasons why i don't doubt these cables. But one can just read the Guardians coverage of this or "Der Spiegel" (German) coverage of this, to realize that these cables are very real. Not everything written there is the TRUTH however, these are subjective writings by diplomats, opinions not always based on fact. So you have a point that one should not trust everything that is written...

And I agree with you, Amazon had a point in deleting this and just played it safe.
 
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5. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 5, 2010, 18:25 TheEmissary
 
There is nothing wrong with speaking your mind or having an opinion, but the problem I have with wiki-leaks is how do you know the content provided is real and unaltered and what is the site's main agenda.

I'am not going to take any information that was stolen or allegedly stolen at face value. If he really wanted to release some damning new information he probably should have selectively chosen it from the 250k instead of putting it all out there and hoping someone will connect the dots for him and all the while not caring for people caught in the mix.

Look at it from this point of view, Copyright holders have the same right to have a site pulled for illegally hosting their content under the new anti-counterfeit law. Granted its not a copyrighted piece of information but instead classified information that wikileaks didn't have the right to possess so Amazon was just covering their bases and I don't blame them as they could probably have been sued for hosting it.
 
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4. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 5, 2010, 18:03 eRe4s3r
 
Worse? Speak for yourself!

If you like being lied to and being ignorant of it then thats your decision.
 
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3. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 5, 2010, 15:14 Beamer
 
Wikileak's last leak was insanely irresponsible.


Still don't get the love for it right now. The useful:damaging ratio of the last leak was so out of whack. We're all worse for the leak, not better.

But yay! Full transparency of stuff that shouldn't be transparent!
 
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2. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 5, 2010, 15:03 Acleacius
 
Here's a amazon secret, they don't deserve your business, neither does paypal, after cutting off WikiLeaks.
http://www.theatlantic.com /international/archive/2010/12/the-shameful-attacks-on-julian-assange/67440/

There's a space after .com
 
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.It works the same way in any country.
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1. Re: Sunday Metaverse Dec 5, 2010, 14:23 Shok
 
The viewer renders PDF documents as HTML-based pages, and doesn't require Adobe Reader's free browser plug-in, or any of the alternatives.

The PDF viewer operates within Chrome's "sandbox," a security feature that isolates processes to make it more difficult for malware to affect the browser or infect the computer.

God I hate patching Adobe every other week at work. Now I don't really need Foxit installed at home at least.
 
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