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Op Ed

Games On Net - Devil's Advocate: Take Control of your Destiny. Ill-informed opinion of the day.
The misguided belief that controllers are somehow a simpleton’s tool is not helped by the fact that controller-centric consoles have a higher, or at least more visible, proportion of children’s games than the keyboard and mouse-bound PC. So it’s easy to see why an association can be drawn there - although of course, that sort of inane logic also works in reverse to label everybody who prefers the mouse and keyboard as a nine-to-five’ing, data-entering, go-nowhere office monkey, because after all - that’s where keyboards and mice get used most often.

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33. Re: Op Ed Oct 20, 2010, 09:14 mag
 
Sepharo wrote on Oct 19, 2010, 00:34:
GunSlingerAUS wrote on Oct 18, 2010, 23:49:
Verno wrote on Oct 18, 2010, 23:05:
Which ones? Or are you just painting the entire community with a broad stroke to make for a more interesting headline? Most gamers I know these days have a 360 pad themselves.

You really don't know any PC gamers who snigger at the mere mention of a control pad? There are many out there, and this article was targeted at those people. Obviously not all PC gamers have the ill-informed opinion that the control pad is useless and just for the kiddies - I personally prefer PC over the consoles, but also have a wireless 360 controller hooked up to the PC for the many console ports.

A gaming PC probably wouldn't be complete without a 360 controller and if only because so many PC games today are ports.

I bought a 360 controller to play a couple top-down shooty games and emulated games, back in the day. It's awful! Much prefer the PS3 controller for the same duty.
 
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32. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2010, 15:23 space captain
 
GunSlingerAUS wrote on Oct 18, 2010, 23:49:
You really don't know any PC gamers who snigger at the mere mention of a control pad? There are many out there, and this article was targeted at those people. Obviously not all PC gamers have the ill-informed opinion that the control pad is useless and just for the kiddies - I personally prefer PC over the consoles, but also have a wireless 360 controller hooked up to the PC for the many console ports.

The article sounds like it was written by some kid who got personally offended and overemotional about someone talking unfavorably about his favorite toy

its not a discussion about technical issues, its a ridiculous rant from some kid with a sore ass
 
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31. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2010, 15:15 Creston
 
Verno wrote on Oct 19, 2010, 10:05:
Well I think we can all agree that this was a silly troll for hits and not to read that site in the future at least.

Well, that's for sure. There's two articles up today that are hosted on that site, and I'm merrily skipping them.

Creston
 
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30. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2010, 10:05 Verno
 
Well I think we can all agree that this was a silly troll for hits and not to read that site in the future at least.  
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29. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2010, 07:50 Bhruic
 
Uhm, did you read it yourself? The fact that it's a devil's advocate position doesn't make it immune to criticism. The language is clearly in favor of a controller and makes several attempts to downplay KB/M as strictly office utility input devices while the controller is some magical gaming device, as if classifications were important in the first place.

Right. I agree completely. My point was that if you read the first paragraph, the "disclaimer", it's pretty damn obvious that the entire point of these articles is to, well, "troll" people. What I was finding amusing is that people were biting based on the blurb. If you actually read the article, the fact it's designed as a troll quickly leaps out, and you know not to bother feeding him.

The editor's attempts to distance himself from the blatant trolling notwithstanding.
 
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28. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2010, 06:53 theyarecomingforyou
 
This piece was in defence of the control pad, a device that is constantly rubbished by PC elitists, for no good reason.
I'm sorry but I, like most serious PC gamers, own a control pad and value it for gaming. However, I will continue to maintain that it is crap for anything involving precision, like FPS, RTS, MMO, etc. It's alright for racing games but is just a cheap alternative to a wheel setup. It's great for platformers, sports games and action games (GTA4, Mafia II, etc). Obviously it's rubbished as an alternative to KB+M for FPS/RTS because... it is rubbish for them.

I'm all for playing Devil's Advocate but these articles are terrible. They're designed to troll and are clearly just aimed at attracting hits. They have no intellectual or journalistic merit.
 
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27. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2010, 01:43 Creston
 
GunSlingerAUS wrote on Oct 18, 2010, 23:43:


As mentioned before, that question wasn't asked by us. Read the article again.

I've read your rant about FPS/RTS, which shows you have a knack for reading a piece without actually paying attention to the words within - the Devil's Advocate piece clearly stated that the mouse/keyboard combo is superior to the control pad for RTS and FPS. We're not debating that. What the piece is trying to say is that control pads are great at the other genres... which is what the other half of your rant agrees with.

Interestingly enough, the article does say "other games journalist." Weird way to do an article, but okay. I'll grant that you then apparently didn't ask the question yourself. Nor did you feel the need to correct the comment.

As for the other part:

1) Whining at people and crying about them "ranting" doesn't encourage them to read your site more. I make specific accusations, pretty much all of which you completely ignore. Do you even comprehend what the word RANT means? You do love your straw men, don't you?

2) In no way, shape or form does your article "clearly state" ANYTHING about the mouse/kb being superior in FPS or RTS games. The only place where it gets mentioned is "which may be helpful in first-person shooters, or strategy games that require nothing more than (day I say it) point and click, they are have become a clunky limitation for anything else games-related"

Perhaps you and I speak a different language? Explain to me, exactly, where this says or even implies that m/kb is BETTER than a controller? Perhaps it's hidden behind the "point and click" sarcastic sneer? I'm having a hard time telling.

3) I don't say that control pads are GREAT at other genres. I say, and I quote "They're never the best at anything, but they're reasonable enough for a multitude of games." I also say that m/kb is reasonable enough at a multitude of games. I can't really think of any genre in which a controller is the BEST option. There's always something else that'll work better. Fighting games: joystick. Racing games: steering wheel. A controller works well for a large variety of games. However, in almost all cases, a m/kb offers better precision and doesn't have to have the game help you with anything, like it often has to for a controller.

Why don't you just admit you just wrote a piece that made some stupid assertions, and stop trying to shoehorn meanings into an article that never said anything of the kind. You're sounding like a Soviet Revisionist by now.

It's fine to flame troll for hits. Hell, half the internet does that nowadays. Sitting on your soapbox afterwards and claiming the moral high ground by completely making shit up makes you look like a toolshed.

Creston

This comment was edited on Oct 19, 2010, 01:49.
 
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26. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2010, 01:02 Prez
 
The article Gunslinger is defending apparently isn't the one I read. The one I read, the one linked to above, is full of immature fanboyish stereotypes, made-up strawmen, and snotty, pretentious demeanor towards PC gamers designed to provoke a response (Also know as "trolling"). Were I the editor I certainly would not be proud of such a poorly conceived stunt as this article. It is an embarrassment really.

You really don't know any PC gamers who snigger at the mere mention of a control pad? There are many out there, and this article was targeted at those people. Obviously not all PC gamers have the ill-informed opinion that the control pad is useless and just for the kiddies - I personally prefer PC over the consoles, but also have a wireless 360 controller hooked up to the PC for the many console ports.

Aside from the fact that the above has nothing to do with the pretentious and childish diatribe in the article in question, the simple answer is "No, I don't know anyone who equates a gamepad to a kiddie toy." Every PC gamer I know; most on this site in fact, owns one for use with his or her PC. I have in the past railed against games (usually sub-par ports) where the mouse and keyboard scheme is gimped or otherwise poorly supported thereby eliminating the choice for gamers by essentially requiring the use of a gamepad, but that is separate from your snotty and contentious troll article.
 
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25. Re: Op Ed Oct 19, 2010, 00:34 Sepharo
 
GunSlingerAUS wrote on Oct 18, 2010, 23:49:
Verno wrote on Oct 18, 2010, 23:05:
Which ones? Or are you just painting the entire community with a broad stroke to make for a more interesting headline? Most gamers I know these days have a 360 pad themselves.

You really don't know any PC gamers who snigger at the mere mention of a control pad? There are many out there, and this article was targeted at those people. Obviously not all PC gamers have the ill-informed opinion that the control pad is useless and just for the kiddies - I personally prefer PC over the consoles, but also have a wireless 360 controller hooked up to the PC for the many console ports.

A gaming PC probably wouldn't be complete without a 360 controller and if only because so many PC games today are ports.
 
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24. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2010, 23:50 GunSlingerAUS
 
Verno wrote on Oct 18, 2010, 23:05:
So was the NES light gun. Whoop de doo.

The NES light gun didn't become the default control device for the current generation of gaming devices.
 
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23. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2010, 23:49 GunSlingerAUS
 
Verno wrote on Oct 18, 2010, 23:05:
Which ones? Or are you just painting the entire community with a broad stroke to make for a more interesting headline? Most gamers I know these days have a 360 pad themselves.

You really don't know any PC gamers who snigger at the mere mention of a control pad? There are many out there, and this article was targeted at those people. Obviously not all PC gamers have the ill-informed opinion that the control pad is useless and just for the kiddies - I personally prefer PC over the consoles, but also have a wireless 360 controller hooked up to the PC for the many console ports.
 
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22. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2010, 23:43 GunSlingerAUS
 
Creston wrote on Oct 18, 2010, 23:00:
... the other which was your Deus Ex interview which you opened with a factual fallacy in calling it an Xbox PORT, rather than the fact that the game was designed from the ground up to run on the Xbox. Extremely simple fact to prove: global settings could only be saved in actual game data, because on the Xbox, there was no place to save global settings anywhere. PC gamers thought on the first day of release, that Global settings just couldn't be saved, because the damn game wouldn't save them unless you changed them INSIDE a game.
Creston

As mentioned before, that question wasn't asked by us. Read the article again.

I've read your rant about FPS/RTS, which shows you have a knack for reading a piece without actually paying attention to the words within - the Devil's Advocate piece clearly stated that the mouse/keyboard combo is superior to the control pad for RTS and FPS. We're not debating that. What the piece is trying to say is that control pads are great at the other genres... which is what the other half of your rant agrees with.
 
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21. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2010, 23:37 Ozmodan
 
I don't know about you guys, but I play on the couch, keyboard on lap, mouse just on the couch surface, works fine. That is what wireless is all about.  
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20. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2010, 23:05 Verno
 
This piece was in defence of the control pad, a device that is constantly rubbished by PC elitists, for no good reason.

Which ones? Or are you just painting the entire community with a broad stroke to make for a more interesting headline? Most gamers I know these days have a 360 pad themselves.

It never said that the control pad is better for FPS or RTS, but it did say that the humble control pad is built from the ground up for gaming, a fact that you can't deny.

Which doesn't really mean anything other than it's a gaming input device. So was the NES light gun. Whoop de doo. You tried to turn a relatively common sense situation into a more egregious story based on some forum fanboyism at best, it seems silly and not much of an article to be blunt. Playing "Devil's Advocate" for such a silly thing seems bizarre.
 
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19. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2010, 23:00 Creston
 
GunSlingerAUS wrote on Oct 18, 2010, 20:48:
Hey guys

I'm the Editor of "biggest bunch of toolsheds on the web", and am glad we ruffled a few feathers with our Devil's Advocate article. It's not a troll, it's an article exploring the other point of view that is rarely heard on gaming sites. This piece was in defence of the control pad, a device that is constantly rubbished by PC elitists, for no good reason. It never said that the control pad is better for FPS or RTS, but it did say that the humble control pad is built from the ground up for gaming, a fact that you can't deny.

If you take the time to read the rest of the site, I hope you'll see that we actually only use Australia's most acclaimed journalists (not high school kids), and cut through the hype with much more critical reviews and articles than most of the Marketing,game sites on the 'Net.

By the way, to our biggest fan Mr Creston, I called you out on your last ill-informed attempt to criticise our site, and am still waiting a reply.

Really? Where exactly did you do that?

Also, taking the 'devil's advocate' position solely and alone for the sake of generating hits isn't going to make you be taken seriously. The reason the 'other point of view' is rarely heard of is because it's simply inane.

A controller is inferior to a mouse and keyboard. It's the reason why PC gamers and console gamers can never play against each other: because the console gamers would get SLAUGHTERED.

Are there uses for a gamepad? Of course there are. They do certain types of games pretty well. They're never the best at anything, but they're reasonable enough for a multitude of games. The statement that "it's built from the ground up for gaming" doesn't mean shit. A Citroen is built from the ground up for driving, and it's still a crappy car.

The mouse and keyboard is also reasonable enough for a multitude of games, and it's superior BY FAR for shooters and RTSes. Ergo, the idea that a controller is better is simply untrue. But good luck with your "feather ruffling."

Oh, and please don't flatter yourself. I've read exactly two articles on your site. One which was this piece of hits-generating tripe, and the other which was your Deus Ex interview which you opened with a factual fallacy in calling it an Xbox PORT, rather than the fact that the game was designed from the ground up to run on the Xbox. Extremely simple fact to prove: global settings could only be saved in actual game data, because on the Xbox, there was no place to save global settings anywhere. PC gamers thought on the first day of release, that Global settings just couldn't be saved, because the damn game wouldn't save them unless you changed them INSIDE a game.

Btw, I like how your article starts by building up this giant straw man about how you need to spend hundreds of dollars for precision gaming mice and backlit keyboards. I'm using a 9 dollar Walmart USB mouse, and a 30 dollar Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. Combined they're ten bucks cheaper than a 360 controller. I'd still kick the ass of anyone playing with a "precision engineered" controller.

But, at least kudos for speaking up.

Creston
 
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18. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2010, 22:42 Prez
 
Points to Gunslinger for responding I guess, and for getting me to go against my better judgment and click the link. As I expected, it was a pathetically written argument meant to troll PC gamers under the guise of "playing devil's advocate". Ruffling feathers is all well and good, if it is done with logical arguments and salient points; alas, the article is complete and utter rubbish. To even attest that the mouse/keyboard is not the best way to play a FPS or RTS under any guise whatsoever is ludicrous. That it "can't be re-tooled as a gaming device" is a moronic assertion, and that it wasn't "designed from the ground up for games" means absolutely nothing. It is still the superior game controller for FPS's and RTS's. Period.

I own a 360 controller and use it all the time to play games for which it is appropriate, like 3D platformers and arcade racing and flight games. But I found the idiotic strawman arguments of the article to be so stupid as to be insulting to gamers' intelligence, both PC and console.

Still, I clicked your link and gave your site an extra hit on the stat counter, so mission accomplished I guess. But for the record, I find the irony of you posting your defense of this terrible piece of "journalism" on a website whose very owner called your writer's opinion ill-informed in his headline to be delicious.
 
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17. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2010, 22:13 Sepharo
 
GunSlingerAUS wrote on Oct 18, 2010, 20:48:
If you take the time to read the rest of the site, I hope you'll see that we actually only use Australia's most acclaimed journalists (not high school kids).

You don't think the article sounds like it was written by a high schooler?

I feel sorry for Australia if their most acclaimed journalists are writing articles attacking multiple strawmen like that.
 
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16. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2010, 20:48 GunSlingerAUS
 
Hey guys

I'm the Editor of "biggest bunch of toolsheds on the web", and am glad we ruffled a few feathers with our Devil's Advocate article. It's not a troll, it's an article exploring the other point of view that is rarely heard on gaming sites. This piece was in defence of the control pad, a device that is constantly rubbished by PC elitists, for no good reason. It never said that the control pad is better for FPS or RTS, but it did say that the humble control pad is built from the ground up for gaming, a fact that you can't deny.

If you take the time to read the rest of the site, I hope you'll see that we actually only use Australia's most acclaimed journalists (not high school kids), and cut through the hype with much more critical reviews and articles than most of the Marketing,game sites on the 'Net.

By the way, to our biggest fan Mr Creston, I called you out on your last ill-informed attempt to criticise our site, and am still waiting a reply.
 
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15. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2010, 20:32 Prez
 
I won't read the article simply because clicking the link will give this pseudo-journo troll what he wants.  
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14. Re: Op Ed Oct 18, 2010, 16:48 Scud
 
DG wrote on Oct 18, 2010, 13:48:
Meh, blatant trolling for hits.

Yep, I felt dirty after clicking the link.
 
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