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DOTA 2 Announced

Valve officially announces DOTA 2, their upcoming sequel offering DOTA's "unique blend of online RTS and RPG action," for PC and Mac next year. This follows on comments from IceFrog, a hint from voiceover artist Jon St. John, and Valve's controversial DOTA trademark. There is an article on the reveal on Game Informer, where they offer an extensive history of the original Defense of the Ancients mod for Warcraft III, a description of Steamworks upgrades that will accompany the release, and word that not much gameplay will be changed from DotA-Allstars, though other alterations are coming:

DotA-Allstars' roster of 100+ heroes is being brought over in its entirety. The single map games take place on is functionally identical to the one that you can download for free today in the Warcraft III mod. Items, skills, and upgrade paths are unchanged. Some hero skills work slightly better due to being freed from the now-ancient Warcraft III engine, but Dota 2 will be instantly familiar to any DotA player.

A few things will make significant differences to players making the transition. Dota 2 uses Valve's Source engine, so the game is much prettier. Source itself is getting a few upgrades, including improved global lighting and true cloth simulation. Dota 2's integrated voice chat is a huge step up from having to set up your own Ventrilo server, and the speed of voice communication is very nearly a requirement for a game as team-focused as DotA.

AI bots will take over for disconnected players, and will be available to play against in unranked training matches as well. However, don't get your hopes up for a full-fledged single-player game, though. Johnson says, "Our goal with the AI is just that their experience isn't destroyed just because one person couldn't finish the game."

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47. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 15, 2010, 20:12 Mr. Tact
 
Beamer wrote on Oct 15, 2010, 09:28:
I'm going to disagree. Valve is so picky that I don't think someone this stupid would be able to get through their screening processes.

And of course there's no such thing as "too stupid for a corporation to do." As I rant repeatedly here, corporations aren't evil and scheming, they're stupid. Stupid as shit. But Valve is small enough to avoid obvious stupidity. Obvious stupidity comes from having too many people making decisions independent of each other.

While I agree corporations have to reach a certain critical size before stupidity becomes status quo -- it seems unlikely Valve is under that number. My experience is that stupidity starts to increase quickly after 200 employees. The stupidity grows exponential at that point, by the time you are at 1000 employees it's fully blown stupidity in control.
 
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46. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 15, 2010, 09:31 Theo
 
I guess we get to see how it plays out. Again - Credible to me is based on the path to DoTA and not the legalitys because we BOTH know i cant argue the legalitys because that has not played out as yet.

So yes your right.

It wont stop be believing this is all wrong however, anyone who knows anything about the history of Warcraft3 mods, and DoTA, knows that "allstars" wasnt even the first itteration and was on shakey ground from the start with regards to IP.

Icefrog should be credited with taking a base concept though and making it a much much better game.

My Troll, isnt strictly a troll, but it is a transparent (its supposed to be) expresion of my opinion that valve (who have potentially done more for PC gaming than any other company in the last 10 years) - have resorted to buying IP rather than creating there own. That can be seen in the last 4 Titles they have released.

I would like to see a end to such a practice and a return to inovation and creation - thats all i am getting at. I certainly dont want to hate on valve, but they dont give me anything other than reason to of late - its a shame.

 
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45. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 15, 2010, 09:28 Beamer
 
Total non-issue. People do stuff that makes me say that pretty regularly... just sayin'. And no such thing as "too stupid for a corporation to do" -- corporations do those things far more often than is pleasant to admit. Which isn't to say any of it is true. Just that stupidity isn't a good reason to dismiss it.

I'm going to disagree. Valve is so picky that I don't think someone this stupid would be able to get through their screening processes.

And of course there's no such thing as "too stupid for a corporation to do." As I rant repeatedly here, corporations aren't evil and scheming, they're stupid. Stupid as shit. But Valve is small enough to avoid obvious stupidity. Obvious stupidity comes from having too many people making decisions independent of each other.
 
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44. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 15, 2010, 09:21 Verno
 
Again, present something credible to support the theory that Valve is doing anything under handed in their business practice. Or retract.

I'm not even going to discuss morality or any of that other nonsense handwaving until you can do what I asked above. Also the troll at the end of your post was awful and transparent, if you want to troll Valve then do it to someone who actually cares about Valve. I didn't even like Half-Life 2, you're trying to get a reaction out of the wrong person.
 
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43. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 15, 2010, 09:01 Theo
 
forgetting legalitys and what you can get away with under the laws of the land.

If we cant agree that there is a basic morality issue here with valves bussiness practice and thier basic approach to this situation then there is no convosation to be had - cause you clearly have different values to me.

Valve could have just of easily made the SAME game, with different charicters and abilitys, developed thier own setting and such and no-one would have any problems with this project. Just like no-one has had any issues (other than the respective qualitys or lack thereof) with LoL, Demigod. (Hon is a strage case and best not gotten in to).

Also, I do know what was "played" prior to icefrogs involvement. i know what was released. that said, you are correct on the "IP" statement; that said, Valve have not released a game with internally created IP since halflife 2.
 
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42. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 15, 2010, 08:37 Verno
 
Theo wrote on Oct 15, 2010, 08:00:
Problem is people who played DoTA ; DO KNOW the status of the project and its content availibility prior to icefrogs envolvement.

No we don't. We know what we read in a changelog. We don't know anything about the ownership of the IP, if it was even formalized, what license the original author released the map under(if any at all) and so on. We know some names tacked onto a loading screen.

the fact they are doing this, A) shows a lack of respect for at least 2 well developed communitys and B) a desire to kill off S2 games.

I doubt the DotA community respects itself, let alone expects anyone else to do so. That aside, everyone wants a piece of a potentially lucrative pie, what a shocker. Valve isn't exactly alone in that regard. No one has presented anything credible to support the theory that Valve is doing something underhanded here so forgive me if it's difficult to summon the thunder so to speak.
 
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41. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 15, 2010, 08:00 Theo
 
Verno wrote on Oct 15, 2010, 07:22:
Again, no one really knows how ownership of the map was divided up over time, who has actual ownership rights of the property and I suspect that's what is being sorted out now. Everyone else is at fault because they want to see something other than one sided statements on dubious sources? I'm far from a Valve fanboy, that's just silly handwaving and personal nonsense to save face.

Problem is people who played DoTA ; DO KNOW the status of the project and its content availibility prior to icefrogs envolvement.

In fact anyone who can read change logs can work it out?

Lets not be over silly here tho valve themselves have done some great things for the PC gaming industry; that said i really wish they would work on creating some original content or IP or further develop a exisiting VALVE create IP.

the fact they are doing this, A) shows a lack of respect for at least 2 well developed communitys and B) a desire to kill off S2 games.

This comment was edited on Oct 15, 2010, 08:05.
 
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40. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 15, 2010, 07:22 Verno
 
Yifes wrote on Oct 14, 2010, 20:06:
I don't think that's unreasonable either, you literally asked people to judge things based on a blog and forum post.

Read my posts again and stop making stuff up. I never claimed those posts are true, and if the posts are true, it actually shift the blame away from Valve to Icefrog, who mislead Valve. The posts don't really matter, because the fact is Icefrog is not the creator of Dota.

First off, I'm not the one posting forum and blog crap then expecting others to make a judgement based on it. You claim I am ignoring something when in reality I am waiting for the official resolution to the entire debacle instead of passing judgment on something that we aren't really privy to the inner details of anyways.

He only added content to a pre-existing map. Just because Valve hired Icefrog does not give Valve ownership to other people's work. This has been stated time and time again, and you are being unreasonable by continuing to ignore this fact.

Again, no one really knows how ownership of the map was divided up over time, who has actual ownership rights of the property and I suspect that's what is being sorted out now. Everyone else is at fault because they want to see something other than one sided statements on dubious sources? I'm far from a Valve fanboy, that's just silly handwaving and personal nonsense to save face.

I never claimed those posts are true

And yet you claim I am ignoring something because I dare to question their validity? You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. In your own words:


Is anyone else pissed off at Valve for doing this? DotA isn't like Teamfortress, or DoD, or Portal, or L4D, or Alienswarm where Valve can sweep in, buy off the entire development team and the trademark along with it. Dota's a community made game, and Icefrog is merely the last of dozens of people who have contributed to the map. Hiring one guy and then laying claim to the work of others is Valve stealing from and abusing the community.

The only way this is fair is if Valve releases the game for free and does not gain ownership of the name.

So again, no I am not "pissed at Valve" but thanks for admitting your bias in the first post you made ITT. You and I have no idea how DotA has changed hands over the years, we know what we see on a fucking forum post. I do know that I never played a version of DotA released under any actual form of license so it leaves everything up in the air. I suspect development was incredibly informal at best and that's why it will probably have to be sorted out in court. I am not "pissed at Valve" because I don't know that they did anything wrong yet. Whether you consider DotA a community property is entirely separate from the reality if it actually is or not.

This comment was edited on Oct 15, 2010, 07:29.
 
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39. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 15, 2010, 03:56 Theo
 
Yifes wrote on Oct 14, 2010, 20:06:
The posts don't really matter, because the fact is Icefrog is not the creator of Dota. He only added content to a pre-existing map. Just because Valve hired Icefrog does not give Valve ownership to other people's work. This has been stated time and time again, and you are being unreasonable by continuing to ignore this fact.

Valve fanboys are totally unable to see the truth - We're all going to have to get over it. personally i hope valve do get challenged, and loose; they have been fairly lucky so far with there "lets buy/steal/buy someone else stuff and then brand it as our own" in recent years.



 
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38. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 14, 2010, 20:06 Yifes
 
You haven't cited anything on this and this is the first I've heard of it so /shrug.

It's in one of the blog posts, and also a rumor on the HoN boards for a while now. Even if you don't believe the blog posts/rumors, it's no secret that HoN is porting heroes directly from DotA: see Faerie Dragon and Bubbles which are the same thing, ability for ability. Since Valve attempted to trademark Dota, and is releasing the original roster in full, it not unlikely that they also tried to claim ownership of said heroes.

I don't think that's unreasonable either, you literally asked people to judge things based on a blog and forum post.

Read my posts again and stop making stuff up. I never claimed those posts are true, and if the posts are true, it actually shift the blame away from Valve to Icefrog, who mislead Valve. The posts don't really matter, because the fact is Icefrog is not the creator of Dota. He only added content to a pre-existing map. Just because Valve hired Icefrog does not give Valve ownership to other people's work. This has been stated time and time again, and you are being unreasonable by continuing to ignore this fact.

This comment was edited on Oct 14, 2010, 20:20.
 
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37. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 14, 2010, 16:31 Mr. Tact
 
Beamer wrote on Oct 14, 2010, 10:16:
Why would anyone risk their job like that?
Total non-issue. People do stuff that makes me say that pretty regularly... just sayin'. And no such thing as "too stupid for a corporation to do" -- corporations do those things far more often than is pleasant to admit. Which isn't to say any of it is true. Just that stupidity isn't a good reason to dismiss it.
 
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36. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 14, 2010, 10:22 Dev
 
Verno wrote on Oct 14, 2010, 07:09:
They(the other owners) initiated the lawsuit in the first place dude.
Ah, I hadn't realized it had gotten to that point. My bad
 
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35. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 14, 2010, 10:16 Beamer
 
Odds of that blog being true: slim.


C'mon, if you work at Valve would you risk your career to post something that petty? Valve isn't all that huge. It's a shot not only at the dude, IceFrog or whatever, but at Valve as a whole and, at the end, at Erik. Why would anyone risk their job like that? And it makes no mention of why Valve would tolerate someone they found out to be "a complete fraud."

Valve inadvertently made many enemies here, and they have plenty of motive for a blog like that. I can't imagine many Valve employees would have that kind of motive. You'd be out on your ass very, very quickly.
If the blog was presented as being from someone other than a Valve employee I'd give it more credence, but even then it makes claims for reasons that Valve would be angry at IceFrog and no good reasons for Valve to keep him around.
 
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34. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 14, 2010, 09:39 Sudbina
 
Tanto Edge wrote on Oct 14, 2010, 02:28:
@Sepharo
I used to follow that Twitter, then I emailed Broussard and asked, is this yours, he said: no. he said he doesn't have a twitter.
Also, twitter accounts for celebs are usually 'verified'.

That is George Broussard's Twitter. He has referred to that same Tweet at Shacknews, which is one of the few websites that he has regularly posted at:

What's interesting is that you created a twitter and a shack account just to post this.

I didn't think him working at S2 mattered, or was relevant. Twitter is inefficient for communication. What I was told was that he was cool and Valve liked him and that there was no internal drama. If you have information about that, people would be interested, I'm sure. The rest of the stuff in that blog just seemed irrelevant.

Are you the blog writer, by any chance?

http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=24249466#itemanchor_24249466


 
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33. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 14, 2010, 09:12 Verno
 
Yifes wrote on Oct 14, 2010, 08:35:
They(the other owners) initiated the lawsuit in the first place dude.

Actually Valve first sent a cease and desist to S2 for using DotA characters in HoN.

You haven't cited anything on this and this is the first I've heard of it so /shrug. I have no idea how the various developers/owners of DotA agreed to split things up and I suspect that will be decided in court anyways. Googling "Valve cease and desist S2" is turning up that Valve applied for a trademark, not issued any cease and desist btw.

Also, does it matter who sues who first? Valve is being the assholes here.

In matters in the context of his reply, my original post was that I'll wait for the results before making a judgment. I don't think that's unreasonable either, you literally asked people to judge things based on a blog and forum post.
 
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32. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 14, 2010, 08:56 Mr. Tact
 
I know about DOTA, but never actually played it. Reading all this was pretty amusing. I wonder if we'll ever know if the blog and twitter postings are the truthful or not.  
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31. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 14, 2010, 08:35 Yifes
 
They(the other owners) initiated the lawsuit in the first place dude.

Actually Valve first sent a cease and desist to S2 for using DotA characters in HoN. The lawsuit with Riot games is separate. Also, does it matter who sues who first? Valve is being the assholes here.
 
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30. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 14, 2010, 07:56 Theo
 
my genuine feeling towards valve - not a troll. for course they have plenty of happy customers and i but just 1 person.

 
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29. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 14, 2010, 07:09 Verno
 
Dev wrote on Oct 13, 2010, 23:37:
That presumes that the other owners have piles of cash to hire lawyers with, since they'd be fighting valve lawyers. If it becomes a big game, they might be able to hire lawyers based on recovering of fees, not sure if they'd do it at this point.

They(the other owners) initiated the lawsuit in the first place dude.

Furthering my hatered for a company that has not made its own game since HL2. (and a company that released a 4 map game with amazingly low content and then made a version 2 1 year later).

Obvious troll is obvious Dizzy
 
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28. Re: DOTA 2 Announced Oct 14, 2010, 03:06 Theo
 
Furthering my hatered for a company that has not made its own game since HL2. (and a company that released a 4 map game with amazingly low content and then made a version 2 1 year later).

 
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