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On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure

A BBC News story on the just-announced shutdown of APB: All Points Bulletin says the administrators of insolvent APB developer Realtime Worlds are still looking to sell the intellectual property for the game, specifically mentioning the possibility that Epic Games may buy the IP, noting APB's use of Epic's Unreal engine as a factor in the speculation. They quote Epic spokesperson Dana Cowley on Mark Rein's interest in the project: "Mark [Epic Games CEO] absolutely loves APB, and everyone here loved what they saw" (Rein is actually a vice president). "We've got our hands full of Gears of War 3, Bullet Storm and the recently announced Project Sword," she goes on to say. "If any talks like that are going on, then they would be confidential." Meanwhile, with the APB servers apparently now shut down, MCV quotes administrator Begbies Traynor on the prospect of customers collecting refunds: "Customers should revert to the entity from which they bought the game in respect of their entitlement to any refund." They attribute this report to their sister site develop, but we cannot find that quote there. They do, however, have more on the situation, saying that with the end of APB, Realtime Worlds has fired its last 50 staff, later correcting that reporting that 33 employees were let go, leaving a staff of seven temps to wind things down, as the company's Colorado satellite faces Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

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45. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 21, 2010, 05:48 .Drifter
 
Punisher wrote on Sep 20, 2010, 08:40:
TheDrifter73 wrote on Sep 20, 2010, 00:12:
They go under, they tell stores to stop carrying the game.
That assumes they actually told the stores to stop selling the game.
Based on the way they've been handling themselves, I doubt it.

I thought everyone was fired, so who's left to tell?

The point was that Realtime Worlds probably told no stores to stop selling the game, which would cause people to keep buying it even though the game is dead.
 
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44. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 20, 2010, 08:40 Punisher
 
TheDrifter73 wrote on Sep 20, 2010, 00:12:
They go under, they tell stores to stop carrying the game.
That assumes they actually told the stores to stop selling the game.
Based on the way they've been handling themselves, I doubt it.

I thought everyone was fired, so who's left to tell?
 
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43. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 20, 2010, 00:12 .Drifter
 
They go under, they tell stores to stop carrying the game.
That assumes they actually told the stores to stop selling the game.
Based on the way they've been handling themselves, I doubt it.
 
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42. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 19, 2010, 17:23 StingingVelvet
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 19, 2010, 16:12:
That ends up being anti-consumer, though.

APB comes with 50 hours. In theory someone could use 40 of those hours now and, a decade from now, decide he wants the extra 10. It's unreasonable to expect he can still have them.

So companies would just go with the time-based 30 days free. But, for many of us 50 hours is longer than 30 days. It's nice to be charged what you use rather than for a real world time limit, which favors those that have more free time.

Not to mention that some idiot store could sell WoW years after it finally goes offline and the idiot buying it from the idiot store would be screwed, as he should rightfully be. He should only be able to bring it back to the store and try to get a refund there.

The 50 hours thing presents new problems I grant you, but there could be a simple consideration for how much time he could have played. Say an hour a day, so 50 days.
 
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41. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 19, 2010, 16:15 Beamer
 
So a customer sees the APB box, thinks it's interesting, buys it, brings it home, BAM no connection. No game. OH OH it's the customer's fault for not having researched the game first, right Beamer? Just like how he should research any game YOU might make, and definitely not buy it if it's not AAA quality.

Well it isn't RTW fault, now is it. They go under, they tell stores to stop carrying the game. If stores don't listen, how is that their fault? What more could they have done? Physically gone into every single store and taken it off the shelf? Then hacked ebay and canceled all sales there? Then built a robot whose only purpose is to find every single copy of the game and break it in half?

Or do you think that they should have kept the servers up indefinitely in case some schmuck buys it after it's been canceled?
 
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40. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 19, 2010, 16:12 Beamer
 
In other words APB came with 50 hours of gameplay and those 50 hours should be guarenteed.

That ends up being anti-consumer, though.

APB comes with 50 hours. In theory someone could use 40 of those hours now and, a decade from now, decide he wants the extra 10. It's unreasonable to expect he can still have them.

So companies would just go with the time-based 30 days free. But, for many of us 50 hours is longer than 30 days. It's nice to be charged what you use rather than for a real world time limit, which favors those that have more free time.

Not to mention that some idiot store could sell WoW years after it finally goes offline and the idiot buying it from the idiot store would be screwed, as he should rightfully be. He should only be able to bring it back to the store and try to get a refund there.
 
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Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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39. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 18, 2010, 04:34 Bhruic
 
So a customer sees the APB box, thinks it's interesting, buys it, brings it home, BAM no connection. No game. OH OH it's the customer's fault for not having researched the game first, right Beamer?

Wouldn't it be the store's fault for continuing to stock the game?
 
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38. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 18, 2010, 04:02 D_K_night
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 17, 2010, 15:30:
He is making horrible analogies though that are in no way comparable, and using them for his argument. A better but not perfect analogy would be going to the movies, buying a ticket, enjoying the movie for a half hour then they abruptly stop the movie because it wasn't making enough money. The theater gave me a ticket that promised two and half hours of entertainment and I got less than one. I would certainly be entitled to a refund or at the very least a ticket to another movie.

No, that's a terrible analogy.
A movie isn't a service, an MMO is.
A movie has an ending, an MMO doesn't. Especially this one.

A better analogy would be if you bought a ticket that allows you to see as many movies as you want in a month but the theater closed after two weeks.

Awful. You're continuing this streak of wrongful analogies in defense of APB, what's with you?

Watching a movie in a theatre is NOT a service, really...I wonder why we're taxed "Goods and Services tax" on that then. It's just the government screwing us, right? Wow interesting, NOT a service...maybe that's why so many people are starting to watch movies at home, considering the NON-SERVICE that the theatre experience is. Incredible, incredible, relevation.

So a customer sees the APB box, thinks it's interesting, buys it, brings it home, BAM no connection. No game. OH OH it's the customer's fault for not having researched the game first, right Beamer? Just like how he should research any game YOU might make, and definitely not buy it if it's not AAA quality.

It's definitely the customer's fault for buying and eating a hot dog that gives him a stomach ache, isn't it?

Were you laid off from APB's team or what? Wow.
 
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37. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 18, 2010, 02:25 StingingVelvet
 
Punisher wrote on Sep 17, 2010, 21:42:
As for the refunds, not going to happen. Steam has already said no, and as mentioned, noone takes opened box returns for games.

Rumor is that Wal-Mart is giving store credit if you literally JUST bought it in the last few days.
 
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36. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 17, 2010, 23:21 Kxmode
 
"Online play subject to change." That's an understatement!  
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35. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 17, 2010, 21:42 Punisher
 
D_K_night wrote on Sep 17, 2010, 15:10:
Well here's the real test. Is APB still being sold at Gamestop/EBgames?

I know for a fact that it is on walmart's shelves. saw it tonight.

As for the refunds, not going to happen. Steam has already said no, and as mentioned, noone takes opened box returns for games.
 
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34. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 17, 2010, 21:42 .Drifter
 
Don't most online games of the MMORPG type have some sort of statement in the EULA, something along the lines of "Provider can stop providing game service after X number of days notice" with X usually being 30?
It's been a while since one I played went under, but the one that did had the 30 day clause and so stayed open 30 days after the announcement.
 
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33. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 17, 2010, 21:40 ColoradoHoudini
 
WyldKat wrote on Sep 17, 2010, 20:33:
ROFL...

So I have 50 hrs from my retail purchase and enough RTWs to buy 6 months of gameplay, I'm guessing all that's gone?

As for contacting the company to get a refund... I bought it straight from RTW...

I guess I can't get too upset because I wasn't playing it anyways, it's still just a shame that all of this could have been prevented if RTW HAD JUST LISTENED TO US.

I have no dog in this fight having never played APB, but what did you guys suggest/ask for etc.. that the devs ignored? I'm always curious on suggestions that were overlooked..as a constant beta tester I have a lot of "told you so" moments when a game tanks.
 
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32. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 17, 2010, 21:38 fujiJuice
 
Stolk wrote on Sep 17, 2010, 17:28:
I just threw that last one in there for fun and good times.

This is a gaming website, no place for that nonsense
 
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31. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 17, 2010, 21:25 UttiniDaKilrJawa
 
Hmmmm wonder if RTW is sorry they didn't work on Crackdown 2 instead.

As for this gem.....no.
fujiJuice wrote on Sep 17, 2010, 15:18:
D_K_night wrote on Sep 17, 2010, 15:10:
Well here's the real test. Is APB still being sold at Gamestop/EBgames?

I am sure they are selling that and pre-orders for RTW's next game.

Best Buy had an exclusive on this nonsense I thought.
 
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30. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 17, 2010, 21:23 RaZ0r!
 
Dave Jones: We've come in to the action-based game and we've made this hybrid, so a lot of people are still thinking it's going to be more like an FPS combat system, and obviously they're straight from Counter-Strike or Modern Warfare, which are really just twitch-based games.

HEADSHOT
 
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29. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 17, 2010, 21:17 Dev
 
Actually I think there's a potential basis for suing a company like gamestop in small claims court if they don't accept returns of the game bought from now on, and pull them from shelves.
The argument would be that they sold known defective and totally 100% non working merchandise. It wouldn't work on the game bought even a couple days ago, but it should work on future purchases.

IANAL
 
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28. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 17, 2010, 20:33 WyldKat
 
ROFL...

So I have 50 hrs from my retail purchase and enough RTWs to buy 6 months of gameplay, I'm guessing all that's gone?

As for contacting the company to get a refund... I bought it straight from RTW...

I guess I can't get too upset because I wasn't playing it anyways, it's still just a shame that all of this could have been prevented if RTW HAD JUST LISTENED TO US.
 
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27. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 17, 2010, 19:08 StingingVelvet
 
I definitely think there should be some kind of law where if a physical product is a service in disguise then the service should be guarenteed for the period included in the boxed sale.

In other words APB came with 50 hours of gameplay and those 50 hours should be guarenteed. WoW comes with 30 days of gameplay and those 30 days should be guarenteed. If they are not fufilled then whatever store you bought it from should be legally obligated to offer you a refund, as the product was not fully usable.

Everything after that is buyer beware.
 
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26. Re: On APB Refunds, Epic's APB Interest, and RTW's Closure Sep 17, 2010, 17:28 Stolk
 
fujiJuice wrote on Sep 17, 2010, 17:16:
Stolk wrote on Sep 17, 2010, 16:34:
So you really don't understand what he means by referring to an MMO as a service and how it differs from a movie? And you don't really know what he means when he says MMOs have no endings? Or did you just get stuck in the one-upping mentality of internet forums and just can't let it go?

No, quite the opposite, which is why I gave reasons why I 'think' that he is incorrect. It is how debates work, he offers points, I offer counterpoints, I am perfectly willing to concede when I 'think' am wrong, which I have done before on this very site. If, however, I don't 'think' that I am incorrect I will defend my position, as anyone should. Except yourself of course, the very act of countering what I have just written will cause your initial accusations to be hypocritical.

At least now you're thinking. Much better than the previous. But, you answered the last question. I was really more interested in the first 2 questions answered. I just threw that last one in there for fun and good times.
 
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