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On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles

The Deus Ex: Human Revolution interview on Computer and Video Games sits down with Eidos Montreal's Jean François Dugas, director of Deus Ex: Human Revolution, the upcoming continuation of the action/RPG series first created by ION Storm. Along the way Jean François addresses concerns that attempting to appeal to a broader audience will create a "consolified" game, which will turn off PC gamers:

Absolutely not. I think PC is a great platform, but I think consoles are a great platform, too. Back in the '90s, games on the two platforms were very different, but I think these days it's all about bringing things together - movies, TV, music - they're all converging in the same places for everyone to access. I see it as convergence, and it's the same for games.

We didn't think, 'Oh, it's coming to console; it has to be easy'. We can have a very deep experience, but it's important that if you want to just jump in to it, you can jump in to it. It's not about removing complexity or cutting possibilities: it's about the way the complexity is introduced.

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72. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 18, 2010, 02:43 Creston
 
I love how everyone always calls the Regen mod the "best" mod out there, and in my 12 or 13 playthroughs of Deus Ex, I have never once used it. Ever.

Because I always valued energy far more highly than health. As long as I have energy, I can turn on all my awesome mods. Once I'm out of energy, I'm just a guy with a ridiculously huge health bar.

I've twice completed the game using nothing but melee weapons. I've once completed the game using nothing but the stun prod. (with caveat for the bots, which obviously don't die from a stun prod.)

I've done the 1 kill walkthrough, though never a zero kill walkthrough. I need to look that up, that seems pretty cool.

I've done a walkthrough where I used nothing but mines, grenades and bombs. (which, let me tell you, is a fucking AWESOME way to play the game.)

There's a few augs I've hardly ever used, but most of them I've found pretty useful. The fact that they are there, however, allows you to play differently. This adds replay value. Which is something 99% of current devs don't ever fucking understand.

Fuck, I love Deus Ex. Even though it may suck hardcore, I'll likely buy DE3 on release day. Just on the minor chance that it may genuinely be cool.

Creston

 
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71. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 14, 2010, 06:03 SectorEffector
 
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70. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 21:35 Prez
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 13, 2010, 10:05:
Again, incorrect. You keep saying they aren't useful but don't provide any reasonable evidence to support that conclusion.

Fine.
Speed: As mentioned, this has some uses. Jumping high, at the very least, can save some time.
Walk Quiet: Just crouch. Same thing. Worthless.
Muscle: Pretty much only useful to set up stairs and snipe. Most of the time you can use speed to get where you want, anyway, and sniping isn't worthwhile until late-game due to horrible inaccuracy at lower levels.
Combat strength: seriously? Maybe useful if you don't plan to kill anyone, but since the game doesn't reward you for this play style, I'm calling it utterly worthless.
Environmental: Suits are always available, and even then I can remember using one once on my last, hardest difficulty play-through (back in July.)
Energy: I can so rarely think of any time I was attacked with fire, plasma or electric. At least not at a rate where activating this was more effective than keeping the fingers on the strafe button.
Aqualung: I always had more of these available than I knew what to do with.
Regen: Awesome. Awesome to the point that I was consistently walking away from medkits because I had too many.
Synth Heart: Good if you're not maxed out on what you use often. But you probably will be.
Power recirc: Always had enough power, never needed this. Plus it's not terribly useful before level 4, which makes it useless.
Cloak: Crouch or use a suit. Plenty of those.
Radar: At best saves you having to wait for a robot's pattern to hit where you can run by regardless.
Ballistic: again, not really worth losing that split second of strafe.
EMP: Energy is plentiful anyway. Worthless.
Vision: I maxed this out my last playthrough. Seemed I still couldn't see through most walls. Never really helped more than crouching and peeking.
Targeting: Pointless. Sword or headshot.
Grenade/Rocket protection: Seriously? Strafe out of the way.
Spy drone: used this often my first play through. Never got much help from it.


Wow, you are completely wrong on every one. Congrats!

Seriously, my experience on multiple play-throughs using different augments and weapons and styles is that virtually everything has its use depending on what play style you use. That you repeatedly state that all of the above is "useless" only serves to prove that you never bothered to alter your play style from the min-max, get-there-as-quick-as-you-can, creativity-be-damned method. Nothing wrong with that; it just proves that Deus Ex is not the style of game for you. You certainly aren't the one to be giving reviews of it though. That's like me giving a review of World of Warcraft - I hate MMO's and I absolutely LOATHE WoW, so I'll just say everything sucks and it's pointless. There - review done!

EDIT: Or instead of reading my above paragraph, you could just re-read Verno's end statement, which hits the nail on the head:

"Yes I can go through the whole game using a single gun and the regen aug but that doesn't mean everything else is negated by it."

After all, they say brevity is the soul of wit. That makes me pretty witless I think.
 
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69. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 13:56 theyarecomingforyou
 
This one paragraph shows you're talking out your ass. You only played the demo, but can completely comment on the entire gameplay mechanics, storyline, and relative sparseness of the entire game from the demo? That first level was literally like maybe 30 minutes of a 20-30 hour game.
I'm sorry but aren't demos meant to entice you to purchase the full game?

If I remember, the demo was Liberty Island, which was one of the slowest, least-fun first levels to a kickass game I've ever played.
So that supports what I said. But I'm not going to go out and buy the full game it I didn't enjoy the demo.

Deus Ex used the same engine as UT, so you can't really say the engine was inferior. :p The levels were so much bigger in DEx compared to its contemporaries - an important aspect of the game, and one that it's sequel was rightly lambasted for lacking - that there was no way you could have pushed the same number of static meshes etc that were found in UT and still fit into the available memory of the time.
By "engine" I was making a broad statement, which included level design, artwork and performance - all of these were very good in UT and very lacking in Deus Ex. And there's no point having large levels if they're going to be bland and box-like.

Anyway, I don't want to bash the game and constantly defend what I have to say. I played the demo to completion. I didn't find the engine, the environment, the plot or the gameplay particularly compelling and I moved onto other games that I did really enjoy. I had far more fun playing UT online and blasting through Soldier Of Fortune. And it's not that I don't like stealth but generally it's just not done very well and feels very unnecessary and cumbersome. I don't like sneaking when I feel like it's a proactive design choice. I prefer games like STALKER where it feels more natural.
 
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68. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 10:50 everyone
 
Kajetan wrote on Sep 13, 2010, 10:22:
...And that's the beauty of this game!
Spot on. Hands up who expects this sequel to be anything like that though...Anyone?
 
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67. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 10:22 Kajetan
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 13, 2010, 10:05:
Fine ... [list of personal opinions]
And this is the best example, why Deus Ex is one of the richest games in the world. So much possibilities to please nearly everyones personal play style. No, you don't have to use most augments. Yes, you can substitute them with certain tools and gadgets and plan your playthrough accordingly. But ... you can also rely heavily on augments, depending on your chosen character skills. Nothing is generally useless or unimportant, everything can be used in any order and combination to please your taste. There is no "I've ruined my character with my bad choice of talents" as it happens in most RPGs.

There is no dead end in Deus Ex. There is always an alternative.

And that's the beauty of this game!
 
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66. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 10:20 Verno
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 13, 2010, 10:05:
Calling everything worthless

You labeling something as worthless isn't evidence of anything. I don't know what else to tell you, I'm not going to sit there making gameplay videos for you on Youtube to make up for your lack of imagination, although I'm sure plenty of other people have. I'm happy you found your optimal path through the game but many of things you label as pointless and useless are anything but. There are alternatives to some of them but that doesn't mean I have to choose to play one way just because you did. That's the beauty of Deus Ex. Yes I can go through the whole game using a single gun and the regen aug but that doesn't mean everything else is negated by it.
 
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65. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 10:08 Zoom
 
Verno wrote on Sep 13, 2010, 09:42:
I think the only augs I don't use are swimming and environmental because they are so situational.
funny you cite these two as i used them quite a bit (esp. swimming aug) for getting around fighting (or other) roadblocks and flank my targets
 
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64. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 10:05 Beamer
 
Again, incorrect. You keep saying they aren't useful but don't provide any reasonable evidence to support that conclusion.

Fine.
Speed: As mentioned, this has some uses. Jumping high, at the very least, can save some time.
Walk Quiet: Just crouch. Same thing. Worthless.
Muscle: Pretty much only useful to set up stairs and snipe. Most of the time you can use speed to get where you want, anyway, and sniping isn't worthwhile until late-game due to horrible inaccuracy at lower levels.
Combat strength: seriously? Maybe useful if you don't plan to kill anyone, but since the game doesn't reward you for this play style, I'm calling it utterly worthless.
Environmental: Suits are always available, and even then I can remember using one once on my last, hardest difficulty play-through (back in July.)
Energy: I can so rarely think of any time I was attacked with fire, plasma or electric. At least not at a rate where activating this was more effective than keeping the fingers on the strafe button.
Aqualung: I always had more of these available than I knew what to do with.
Regen: Awesome. Awesome to the point that I was consistently walking away from medkits because I had too many.
Synth Heart: Good if you're not maxed out on what you use often. But you probably will be.
Power recirc: Always had enough power, never needed this. Plus it's not terribly useful before level 4, which makes it useless.
Cloak: Crouch or use a suit. Plenty of those.
Radar: At best saves you having to wait for a robot's pattern to hit where you can run by regardless.
Ballistic: again, not really worth losing that split second of strafe.
EMP: Energy is plentiful anyway. Worthless.
Vision: I maxed this out my last playthrough. Seemed I still couldn't see through most walls. Never really helped more than crouching and peeking.
Targeting: Pointless. Sword or headshot.
Grenade/Rocket protection: Seriously? Strafe out of the way.
Spy drone: used this often my first play through. Never got much help from it.

 
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63. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 09:42 Verno
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 13, 2010, 09:18:
If it's a gimmick it isn't useful.

Incorrect. It's a gimmick to me because I didn't think of using it that way, not because it isn't useful.

None of the augs were really very useful, outside of regen. They had uses, but that doesn't mean they were useful. Very rarely were they worth taking your hand off the movement keys and up to the function keys. And by "very rarely," I mostly mean "never."

Again, incorrect. You keep saying they aren't useful but don't provide any reasonable evidence to support that conclusion. I've found uses for nearly all of the augs in my multiple play throughs. I think the only augs I don't use are swimming and environmental because they are so situational. Deus Ex is very well balanced that way, there are dozens of possible approaches for many of the scenarios you face and that includes both augs and weaponry.
 
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62. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 09:38 Dev
 
Absolutely so.

Because its the money. Its quite possible to make a non consolified game and keep it good, but that will turn off a large chunk of the console audience who are really just kids. That chunk of business one would lose on consoles for that far outweighs the additional sales on PC one would get for a involved deep non consolified game. Thats why games are quite often consolified, and thats why they will make the decision to do it with this one too. Even if they don't intend to now, it will become that way.
 
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61. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 09:18 Beamer
 
That's really silly though. Just because you preferred one method or found some optimal min/max way to beat the game doesn't mean everyone else played that way. Some of us actually used the augs main functions in our game progression. Hell I know some people who RP'd their own JCD and did gimmick runthrus. That's the strength of the entire system, it's diversity.

If it's a gimmick it isn't useful.

None of the augs were really very useful, outside of regen. They had uses, but that doesn't mean they were useful. Very rarely were they worth taking your hand off the movement keys and up to the function keys. And by "very rarely," I mostly mean "never."

If a feature isn't worth hitting the button it isn't useful.
 
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60. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 09:04 Verno
 
Beamer wrote on Sep 13, 2010, 07:24:
Alright, speed was useful at times. The rest? Nope. None really worth the energy they used, even though it was exceedingly rare to be low on energy. Let's take the strength mod, for instance. By the time you were skilled enough in sniper rifles to actually use them you had the dragon's tooth, which let you kill everyone before they saw you coming.

That's really silly though. Just because you preferred one method or found some optimal min/max way to beat the game doesn't mean everyone else played that way. Some of us actually used the augs main functions in our game progression. Hell I know some people who RP'd their own JCD and did gimmick runthrus. That's the strength of the entire system, it's diversity.
 
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59. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 08:18 tuddies
 
sounds like a line of BS - it will be consolized - every interview since the announcement has said just that.

consolizing a game means dumbing it down and using horrible UI/controls and not accommodating mods - just like this game
 
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58. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 07:24 Beamer
 
This is an issue of implementation more than anything else. The game shouldn't pause when you're accessing your inventory and healing should be gradual rather than instantaneous. They could also put a limit on how many healing packs you can carry at any given time. All of these things would result in a healing mechanic that is both deeper and more challenging than regenerating health.

But the benchmark we're using here is DX, which paused when you went into inventory, in which you could hotkey medkits, anyway, and did have a limit, but that limit was 20.

The strength mod was useful because it let you carry and stack large, heavy objects, which in turn allowed you to reach better sniping points or jump over barriers. The cloak aug turned you invisible to humans. The radar transparency aug made you invisible to bots and security cameras. Synthetic Heart made all your augs better. Vision Enhancement lets you see through walls. Silent Running makes it much easier to sneak around and knock out enemies. Speed Enhancement lets you run faster and jump higher, which in turn lets you reach otherwise inaccessible areas.

Alright, speed was useful at times. The rest? Nope. None really worth the energy they used, even though it was exceedingly rare to be low on energy. Let's take the strength mod, for instance. By the time you were skilled enough in sniper rifles to actually use them you had the dragon's tooth, which let you kill everyone before they saw you coming.

I can't imagine anyone going through the second half of that game using anything other than the dragon's tooth for more than maybe 15% of kills.
 
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57. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 07:09 Verno
 
J wrote on Sep 13, 2010, 06:29:
I remember when I first played the demo and I didn't like it. I didn't like the limited ammunition, I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing because I tried to rush through it - I basically tried playing it like an FPS, trying to take out every enemy, and I came undone.

I think all of us did that the first time. I had the same experience my first time through the game but as you said you eventually come back to it and try different things. Very few games accommodate that kind of approach, most times these days there is a simple, scripted method for going through the game.

DX made me appreciate depth in gaming like no other game has.

I haven't even seen many games with the depth of Deus Ex. What's more scary is that the games own developers don't even seem to understand how they accomplished it if you listen to their commentaries and interviews. It's like Deus Ex was an accident that will probably never repeat in the industry.
 
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56. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 07:01 everyone
 
Alamar wrote on Sep 12, 2010, 15:29:
Carmack fanboy or something? :p

This... Is a good example of what's wrong with 'society' or our 'culture' today...

It's ok for people to have different opinions... It's ok for people to argue the merit of their opinions...

There's no need for people to take it personally, when someone else has a different opinion/view of a situation. You don't need to try and dismiss/disregard other people by convincing yourself they're 'fanboi's, work for the company you're hating on, or call it whining/QQ/etc, or alts of Derek Smart... (I apologize if that gets him in this thread).

I personally think some people's opinions on Blues, over the last 10 ish years I've been coming here, are insane... I can't relate, but I also realize that I don't have to agree, or even understand their point, to know it's valid : )

As for the original Deus Ex... I enjoyed some of it... But I didn't think it was the crazy-good game with an amazing system that seemed to be the popular view at the time... Having 'grown up' with games like the original System Shock, perhaps I was just expecting more... Though, 'to be honest', any time something is hyped, I expect more, and usually end up disappointed... (I sat in the theatre for nearly 2 hours WAITING for the scary part of The Blair Witch Project... The only major emotion that movie evoked, was a sense of longing for camping).

Anyhow... nearly done ranting...

In the end, my point isn't, that you should hug your neighbor (or fellow poster)... Instead, argue with them... But do it with a little more self respect/confidence/what-have-you... : )

-Alamar
You base a whole rant on one retro-inspired joke? Nicely done.
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Sep 12, 2010, 15:44:
What out there was better (genuine question)?
Half-Life, Unreal Tournament, Elite Force, Soldier Of Fortune, etc. Deus Ex may have had decent gameplay but the presentation / graphics were pretty poor and the environments very sparse.
Deus Ex used the same engine as UT, so you can't really say the engine was inferior. :p The levels were so much bigger in DEx compared to its contemporaries - an important aspect of the game, and one that it's sequel was rightly lambasted for lacking - that there was no way you could have pushed the same number of static meshes etc that were found in UT and still fit into the available memory of the time.

Personally I loved the demo and couldn't wait to get hold of the full game. It just seemed a lot more mature compared to all the run and gun shooters of the time. It ran great on my Voodoo 3 3000 (which came with free copies of Unreal and UT. woo hoo!) and I loved the stealth mechanic - but I am a Thief fan too, so...

I realise any follow-up is going to have to overcome the rose tinted hue of it's father but if the developers understand why Deus Ex was such a great game and actually want to make a true sequel then there is hope, however slim.

This comment was edited on Sep 13, 2010, 07:26.
 
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55. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 06:29 J
 
I remember when I first played the demo and I didn't like it. I didn't like the limited ammunition, I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing because I tried to rush through it - I basically tried playing it like an FPS, trying to take out every enemy, and I came undone.

I came back to it after a while. I don't remember why. It was then that I started playing it differently. I would be more conservative, more aware, and would think about it in a different way. And that's when I started to make headway with the game. I was discovering many subtleties (from unexpected reactions to hidden areas and game mechanics), and the game was not holding my hand.

And I think that's what I loved most about DX. It didn't hold my hand. It said "Here I am." and made no apology for it. And the more I put in to the game the more I got out of it. I could even go back and play it again in a different way and still discover new things, even though I had thought that I had played it thoroughly last time.

One little discovery - such as realizing that when the weapon JC is holding is completely dark then you are invisible (so long as nobody is chasing you) made a huge difference. And that's just one of many examples.

DX made me appreciate depth in gaming like no other game has.
 
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54. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 04:50 Jerykk
 
Then someone figured out how to get through the entire game with a zero body count. Deus Ex was such an emergent game with so many options, that a savvy player could actually do things that the developer thought was impossible, without resorting to bugs and glitches.

This. If somebody played Deus Ex without ever thinking outside the box, they missed out on the game's greatest strength. Judging by the comments in this thread, it seems like some people never thought outside the box and played through the game in the least creative way possible. Although DX3 appears to be offering combat, stealth and diplomacy options, I highly doubt there will be as much emergent gameplay as there was in DX.

Another great thing about DX was the attention to detail. Almost every little thing you did was acknowledged by the game. If you killed everyone on Liberty Island, characters would acknowledge that. If you killed no one on Liberty Island, characters would acknowledge that. If you left Gunther in his cell, characters would acknowledge that. If you hung out in the ladies restroom, characters would acknowledge that.
 
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53. Re: On Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Consoles Sep 13, 2010, 04:34 Zoom
 
Prez wrote on Sep 13, 2010, 00:14:
it's the overall "experience" of Deus Ex that we remember and cherish. Even when we play Deus Ex now, it tickles that part of our brain that remembers just how awesomely fun and original so much of the game was when it came out, and we enjoy it in a way that someone who just tried it this year never could.
What made it so good was "emergent gameplay", the very signature of Looking Glass Studios games (even tough this one already had Ion Storm markings, it was still LGS team working on it), or LGS vision of a sandbox game (waht they call "immersion simulator"). It was really hard, punitive, unrewarding until you figured out your own way through it, and the game did let you believe you actually tricked the game design by doing so, which is pure genius. Also while the graphics engine is outdated, the sound engine is still very on top of everything apart from Thief series which stands above everything else. And sound played a good part in immersion too.
I highly doubt DX3 will be anywhere near an "immersion simulator"... First they'll take our hand through it because we are lobotomized console gamers and we want our 5 minutes gaming shot. Getting immersed into Deus Ex took way more than 5 minutes.

 
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