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Guild Wars 2's Flat Leveling Curve

The ArenaNet Blog has an article on Progression and Leveling in Guild Wars 2 written by Isaiah "Izzy" Cartwright, who explains how they are setting the initial level cap at 80 and flattening out the leveling curve in their MMORPG sequel so the amount of play required to progress at later levels is the same as the early ones. He explains: "Overall, we expect our content to be the driving force behind how long it takes to do things in-game. Anyone can increase the length of an experience bar and call it content, but our world is filled with an almost endless stream of things to do. We expect content—not long, grindy progression—to be the deciding factor that keeps people playing our game. We want everyone to stick with Guild Wars 2 because our content is fun and enjoyable, not out of some dogged determination to slowly, slowly advance. And because our world is ever-changing and dynamic, you can play our content again and again! Two characters journeying through the game will have two different experiences, which means the game will remain fresh for all you out there who enjoy making a million characters." Thanks Guild Wars 2 Slovenija.

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12. Re: Guild Wars 2's Jul 31, 2010, 10:10 Zadig
 
Yes, there is very little hard data about GW2 so far. Unfortunately "they are setting the initial level cap at 80" is enough to let me know this won't be a sequel to Guild Wars, but another doomed Lotro, Conan, Warhammer, etc.

90% of the content will be useless to most of the players within a few months, and this content will be seen as an impediment to new players who want to get to the 'good stuff'. The developers will eventually oblige them by letting players progress through those levels as fast as possible. Spending many months to design a world and populate it with quests, lore, and npcs that will shortly be obsolete and ignored is a massive waste of developer resources. So why do it? Because every other shitty MMO did it and it's easier to perpetuate an ancient design flaw than to think.

If they wanted to add power progression or content for the OCD players, then they still don't need to have leveling. They already have titles and can add achievements that grant small PVE bonuses, or skill training like EVE. None of them create ghost towns. GW was successful because it was designed to be completely different from the horde of generic fantasy MMOs. Designing GW2 to be like the other identical time sinks will not produce beneficial results.
 
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11. Re: Guild Wars 2's Flat Leveling Curve Jul 30, 2010, 19:33 slaka
 
I believe I read that they will have some sort of 'scaling' mechanism so that low levels can play with their high level buddies.

Good sounds coming from GW2, but the cynic in me still cringes at sentences like "And because our world is ever-changing and dynamic, you can play our content again and again!". I'll believe it when I see it...
 
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10. Re: Guild Wars 2's Level Cap of 80 Jul 30, 2010, 18:07 Kevlar
 
Cram wrote on Jul 30, 2010, 16:45:
Well I see the logic behind the potential ghost-town situation Zadig mentions. However, despite all the recent articles about GW2, we really don't know very much about this game at all. I won't join any we're-all-gonna-die bandwagon till I play the game. Just because the level cap is higher does not necessarily mean jumping on-board the WoWClone bandwagon if the games systems are fundamentally different and I get the impression they will be. I also see a lot of benefits to raising the level cap and flattening out the curve.

Yup - have to admit, a lot of GW was spent being stuck at level 20, never getting stronger. Don't see a huge downside to this.
 
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9. Re: Guild Wars 2's Level Cap of 80 Jul 30, 2010, 16:45 Cram
 
Well I see the logic behind the potential ghost-town situation Zadig mentions. However, despite all the recent articles about GW2, we really don't know very much about this game at all. I won't join any we're-all-gonna-die bandwagon till I play the game. Just because the level cap is higher does not necessarily mean jumping on-board the WoWClone bandwagon if the games systems are fundamentally different and I get the impression they will be. I also see a lot of benefits to raising the level cap and flattening out the curve.
 
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8. Re: Guild Wars 2's Level Cap of 80 Jul 30, 2010, 16:12 justice7
 
Zadig wrote on Jul 30, 2010, 14:49:
Guild Wars and EVE are the only games that don't have this problem so it's incredibly frustrating to see one of them jump on the shitty wow-clone train. Hint for developers: having the same level cap as Warcraft will not get you the same number of subscribers as Warcraft. If you don't believe me, then ask Funcom.

Some people are never happy, no matter what.

Hint for trolls: having a different level cap from Warcraft will not get you the same number of subscribers as Warcraft. If you don't believe me, then ask Mythic.
 
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7. Re: Guild Wars 2's Level Cap of 80 Jul 30, 2010, 14:49 Zadig
 
What a horrible, and clearly WoW inspired, decision. Guild Wars had 3 good ideas - everyone on one server so good communities could flourish and jackasses had consequences for their actions. Letting you play with bots that were good enough to beat the game, instead of forcing you to group with aforementioned jackasses. And a minimal level cap so leveling wasn't a job.

The level cap of 20 also had an added bonus in that most of the zones were actually useful and inhabited years after release since you didn't comically outgrow them. The downward spiral of raising the level cap => more ghost towns => faster leveling to get you out of the ghost towns => simplified game mechanics to compensate for you being rushed to the 'good stuff', simply didn't apply here.

Guild Wars and EVE are the only games that don't have this problem so it's incredibly frustrating to see one of them jump on the shitty wow-clone train. Hint for developers: having the same level cap as Warcraft will not get you the same number of subscribers as Warcraft. If you don't believe me, then ask Funcom.
 
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6. Re: Guild Wars 2's Flat Leveling Curve Jul 30, 2010, 14:05 Jivaro
 
I just hope they deliver on it.  
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5. Re: Guild Wars 2's Flat Leveling Curve Jul 30, 2010, 12:18 Steele Johnson
 
Yes, finally an mmo developer understands.  
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4. Re: Guild Wars 2's Flat Leveling Curve Jul 30, 2010, 11:30 ColoradoHoudini
 
Getting more interested in this title with every passing article I read about it.  
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3. Re: Guild Wars 2's Flat Leveling Curve Jul 30, 2010, 11:11 Kevlar
 
Finally. I've been waiting on RPG (let's not get into semantics) developers to do this for twenty fucking years.

Creston

Seconded - can only hope it continues to sound this good, Creston. For all the warts of the original GW they definitely have some sound concepts packed in there. Lost way too much of my life to that game.
 
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2. Re: Guild Wars 2's Flat Leveling Curve Jul 30, 2010, 10:28 Morgan19
 
GW2's sounding better and better all the time!  
Avatar 11406
 
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1. Re: Guild Wars 2's Flat Leveling Curve Jul 30, 2010, 10:26 Creston
 
Finally. I've been waiting on RPG (let's not get into semantics) developers to do this for twenty fucking years.

Creston
 
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