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Op Ed

Roger Ebert - Okay, kids, play on my lawn. Thanks Mike Martinez.
I was a fool for mentioning video games in the first place. I would never express an opinion on a movie I hadn't seen. Yet I declared as an axiom that video games can never be Art. I still believe this, but I should never have said so. Some opinions are best kept to yourself.

Kotaku - Weighing Morality in Gaming.
As Aristotle said, the more a person does the good, the more they like doing the good, and conversely, the more a person does evil, the more they are inclined to continue to do evil. Both reason and experience back up Aristotle' s observation. If a person acts in a pattern of charity, they will become the kind of person who is inclined toward charity. If a person habitually degrades other people, they will find it difficult to think well of someone new they meet. One can make an argument for this easily observed reality from theological, philosophical, psychological, and physical grounds. Given this, perhaps the next evolution of the morality system in games should be one which pushed a player toward a particular choice depending on their tendencies. If the player has thrown someone out of the window the past three times he or she has argued, shouldn't that be what he or she is inclined to do this time?

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19 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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19. just like assholes Jul 2, 2010, 04:47 space captain
 
ah yes, who better to define what art is, than CRITICS?

but not the artists themselves... thats crazy

all those drawings, paintings, 3d modeling, animations, stories, music, etc. its not art, man... because its not hep, cat.. can you dig it, daddy-o?
 
Go forth, and kill!
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18. Re: Op Ed Jul 2, 2010, 01:43 stingray
 
Can't we all just get along?  
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17. Re: Op Ed Jul 2, 2010, 00:27 Rigs
 
So Ebert big guy, if nothing's going to change your opinion...why even write about it?

Well, duh, the same reason George Burns lived so long...he's 'special'...

You know George Burns was really the second coming of Christ, right? That and he moonlighted as the devil just to scare the shit out of us...well, those of us that actually paid attention, anyway...


=-Rigs-=
 
Avatar 14292
 
'I know what you think you are, what you want us to believe! But I don't buy it! For three years now you've been pulling everyone's strings, getting us to do all the work, and you haven't done a damn thing except stand there and look cryptic.'
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16. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 21:10 D_K_night
 
I read this little blog and to sum things up, Ebert basically said the below:

"Video games aren't art, and nothing's going to change my mind. I don't want to play them, I don't want to understand them. I won't change."

So Ebert big guy, if nothing's going to change your opinion...why even write about it?
 
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15. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 20:52 Kxmode
 
I think Roger wants a hug. Come on fellow gamers, let's give the big guy a hug! Hug  
Avatar 18786
 
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14. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 16:18 Rigs
 
I would say something like Everday the Same (http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2009/12/browser_game_pick_every_day_th.html) is art.

Actually, I would prefer Crayon Physics as a good candidate, if games are indeed art. I think it's very unique in gameplay, presentation, style and sound...

...and, god willing, casual forum-goers who bitch about everything would all be out of a job.

*Ahem*...I try to keep myself off that list as much as possible...


=-Rigs-=
 
Avatar 14292
 
'I know what you think you are, what you want us to believe! But I don't buy it! For three years now you've been pulling everyone's strings, getting us to do all the work, and you haven't done a damn thing except stand there and look cryptic.'
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13. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 15:44 Zyrxil
 
NicklePop wrote on Jul 1, 2010, 11:29:
I've read Devs who agree with this, that games aren't art. (and really, few are, but there are some ... Bioshock for example I would say is art)
Bioshock has style and a neat story/plot twist, but it's not art. I would say something like Everday the Same (http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2009/12/browser_game_pick_every_day_th.html) is art.
 
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12. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 15:29 Dr. D. Schreber
 
We can debate the meaning of art all we want to, but it's pointless. The man is a troll; if you actually read the article, the entire thing basically says "I shouldn't have said what I said because it was stupid not to expect I'd be called to task for talking about something I have no experience with, but since I don't like it and want nothing to do with it, it's okay if I stick to my argument."

His condescending attitude towards how much time gamers put into playing games grates on me, too. I'm sorry, is my hobby somehow worse than yours because one sitting doesn't fit a neat 1.5 hour schedule?

This is why professional critics are complete bullshit and no one should ever listen to them; objectivity is non-existent. Research for media is stupidly easy these days; you can Youtube trailers or gameplay footage, google for plot summaries or screencaps or general information to see if something suits your tastes. If more people actually took the time to be informed consumers instead of relying on the (sometimes extremely narrow-minded) opinions of others, luddites like Ebert and, god willing, casual forum-goers who bitch about everything would all be out of a job.
 
Avatar 51686
 
NOT THE BEES! NOT THE BEES THEY'RE IN MY EYES AARRGRHGHGGAFHGHFGHFG!
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11. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 14:32 PHJF
 
The irony is Hollywood has become so largely formulaic and derivative as to resemble the video game industry. Sequel after sequel and reboot after reboot.  
Avatar 17251
 
Steam + PSN: PHJF
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10. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 14:20 Narf2029
 
I'll never take art seriously as long as people can still flip urinals upside-down and call it art, or simply throw their paint palette at the wall and call it art.  
Huh? I'm sorry, I was thinking about cake.
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9. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 14:15 Rigs
 
Art...

A word that means some many different things to so many different people. I could probably say the same about the word 'shit'. It's a subjective term, used in the way you want, not really a defined word. I never understood how some people compare certain things and see what most don't, such as paintings in an art gallery. I've been to a few in my day and I fail to see what defines 'good' art and uh, well, shit. I mean, Van Gogh was universally panned by the folks of his era, yet now he's considered a painting genius. Why? You know, I can cut my ear off, too. Does that make me 'misunderstood'? If he had cut his Johnson off and painted about that instead, would he still be the 'great' painter he is today?
I've seen works of all kinds but lately it seems that edgy, controversial and perhaps even taboo or tasteless are all the rage. The problem now is that everything is pretty much been done. As with the movie industry, we're seeing the crud at the bottom of the barrel being trumpeted as 'genius'. Why is it that we can have a gallery with all the old 'classics' on one side and then works done by elephants, horses, monkeys and convicts on the other side? I'll tell you why, because the word 'art' is meaningless in the modern context it's used. There is no 'art' anymore. There are only works of expression and thought put into physical form...


=-Rigs-=
 
Avatar 14292
 
'I know what you think you are, what you want us to believe! But I don't buy it! For three years now you've been pulling everyone's strings, getting us to do all the work, and you haven't done a damn thing except stand there and look cryptic.'
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8. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 12:55 Acleacius
 
Bullshit, he still thinks he's right, which for the record he isn't.

Also this "kids" thing won't go well, since most are 25 to 60.
 
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.It works the same way in any country.
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7. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 12:52 Ray Marden
 
It's all a bit pointless, as far as I can tell.

As ever, what is "art." If one thing from one genre/form/media type is "art," are all the others? Can you pick the most "artistic" form/thing/media/whatever and submit it my, much less anybody else, review and guarantee that I will agree? Or that I won't manager to look at the whole range of that genre/media type/whatever and find a huge amount of crap?

Personally, I love gaming - it lets me ready, watch, hear, follow, and control an experience. I think gaming has an insane amount of potential, although that is immediately contradicted by the obsession with mindless shooting or a heavy focus on destruction/killing.

"Art" or not, when it all works well, I think games are utterly fantastic and offer me a scope of experience that I am unable to match elsewhere. And ultimately, that's what matters - whether I like it or not.
I would say gaming falls quite flat comapred to its potential, though.
Shrugging,
Ray
 
Avatar 2647
 
Everything is awesome!!!
http://shoutengine.com/GarnettonGames/
I love you, mom.
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6. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 12:51 FloorPie
 
PHJF wrote on Jul 1, 2010, 12:29:
This isn't an apology, it's a snarky reassertion of his retarded opinion.

Agreed. Ebert has become nothing but a whiny old curmudgeon seeking relevence and attention as he nears the end.
 
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5. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 12:29 PHJF
 
This isn't an apology, it's a snarky reassertion of his retarded opinion.  
Avatar 17251
 
Steam + PSN: PHJF
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4. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 12:28 PropheT
 
I like Roger Ebert, although I still don't agree with him on this subject. He's right, though, the gaming community as a whole isn't a conglomerate that you can have any kind of meaningful argument with. There's no rage like nerd rage.  
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3. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 12:16 Tanto Edge
 
It's the week of apologies for Ebert it seems.
Twitter, Games, etc
What's next?
 
Avatar 13202
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=705LEH3j2g0&t=0m24s
http://www.youtube.com/user/tantoedge
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2. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 11:29 NicklePop
 
I like Roger, good guy, and honest about his opinions (though I disagree of course, to some extent)

I've read Devs who agree with this, that games aren't art. (and really, few are, but there are some ... Bioshock for example I would say is art)

 
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1. Re: Op Ed Jul 1, 2010, 11:10 nin
 

Sometimes I get the impression Roger just likes to say things to make headlines and get attention...

He's not a bad guy, even if I don't always agree with him...
 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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