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Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch

A new unofficial patch for Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines is now available, continuing the remarkable community support for the action/RPG that's lasted more than five years since the demise of its developer, Troika Games. As always, the patch can be found on its official home, The Patches Scrolls. The patch notes explain all that's new and different.

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40. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 29, 2010, 13:54 eRe4s3r
 
Color me confused. Doesn't Bloodlines use the exact same system as DX?

it does, but what is missing, is that weapons suddenly are able to do things that they couldn't before

No it doesn't. And you guys just demonstrated that you have no idea what i mean. Or how great Deus EX's gameplay was for that matter

But ok, for comparisons sake.. start the first level of deus ex equip your baton with unarmed skill 1 (lowest) and hit the nearest enemy - you will do damage and NEVER miss (unless you actually physically miss). Also you will die, because your enemy has a pistol and will headshot you.. but thats beside the point - if you sneak up you can knock enemies unconscious with higher skill levels or stealth kill (with higher skill) which is realistic. An unskilled dude will have no idea where to attack with a knife to have a 100% kill.

Now do the same thing in Bloodlines - I am using the Clan Mod with plus 6.9 and weapon arsenal mods basically the full packet of mods thats available. Unarmed is actually level 2 - Strength and Agility is 1

First enemy, you are told to engage in the (Special) tutorial (not stealth kill him ,p) with fists these were all visible hits that physical connected.
punch = hit/2 damage
punch = miss/0 damage
punch = miss/0 damage
punch = miss/0 damage
punch = miss/0 damage
punch = miss/0 damage
punch = miss/0 damage
punch = hit/2 damage
punch = miss/0 damage
punch = miss/0 damage

Yeah... 7 minutes later the dudes dead. Secondly the tutorial tells you that the tire iron is better and to use Auspex for the kill....

tire iron = miss/0 damage
tire iron = miss/0 damage
tire iron = miss/0 damage
tire iron = miss/0 damage
tire iron = miss/0 damage
tire iron = miss/0 damage
tire iron = miss/0 damage
tire iron = miss/0 damage
tire iron = miss/0 damage
tire iron = miss/0 damage

All the while your enemy attacks with fists, actually hitting you once in 10 times and doing 1 damage.... and all that time each hit physically connects to the enemy, and produces a metal clank sound, like hitting a iron oven with kittens.

Like in DX with high armed stats you could suddenly destroy cameras which makes no sense!

Ehem.. Yes it does. A steel baton can easily (in reality) smash a camera lense to smithereens. Of course in bloodlines you'd miss the camera 15 times before doing 2 damage to it. And the camera would have 50 HP.

Also in Deus EX you play a cybernetic super soldier who can boost muscle strength naturally (and boost it extremely with more energy drain than his body can produce) so it makes a lot of sense actually

What doesn't make sense is me visually seeing a hit on an enemy for 0 damage - Thats a 4th Wall violation and destroys any immersion instantly. You are not fighting in bloodlines, you are playing dice.

And i am just posting the above as an hardcore example... obviously differently skills make combat less... 0'ish (but still miss heavy)

This comment was edited on Jun 29, 2010, 14:57.
 
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39. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 29, 2010, 07:33 Wesp5
 
Jerykk wrote on Jun 29, 2010, 04:20:
Color me confused. Doesn't Bloodlines use the exact same system as DX? As in, the higher your gun skill, the faster your reticule contracts?

It does, but what is missing, is that weapons suddenly are able to do things that they couldn't before. Like in DX with high armed stats you could suddenly destroy cameras which makes no sense!

For people who played a pacifist, the game provides the most powerful melee weapon (Ra blade) and ranged weapon (flamethrower) for free near the end so nobody should give up in the combat intensive end game.

And whoever compared Bloodlines and it's brilliant voice acting to ME should look a bit closer at the faces. In ME there are no emotions transported during the dialogues at all which is done much better in Bloodlines.

Also the patch doesn't mostly fix patch problems, the game is so complex that some issues are still open today with no SDK available. I never get any crashes and for everyone wanting to stay close to the original game, the default version is the "basic" patch which does only bug fixes. The optional "plus" version tweaks stuff and adds new content.

For new quests try the Clan Quest Mod which adds new quests for each clan.
 
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38. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 29, 2010, 07:25 eRe4s3r
 
Actually i just looked and higher skill *does* cause more damage in DX1, but i am NOT sure whether that is the mod i am using or deus ex 1 default..

When you do a headshot in deus ex it does not matter though because, unless the guys wears heavy armor + helmet a headshot is always a kill (at least in the mod i am playing ,p) - and unless you use some kind of funky armor that does less damage.

I will try Clan mod with additional mods again and see if they fixed what i mean, but off-hand that was not the only reason why i disliked combat in Bloodlines...
 
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37. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 29, 2010, 07:19 eRe4s3r
 
Mhh, i think you are right..... i must have alzheimer

But i just found that theres a Clan mod which includes a lot more modifications than patch 6.9 did... so i am going to grab that and try it again
 
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36. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 29, 2010, 06:56 Eldaron Imotholin
 
Jerykk wrote on Jun 29, 2010, 04:20:
I just can not accept a FPS based on dice rolls though, especially not when Deus EX showed many years before how to do FPS RPG right and without dice rolls.

Color me confused. Doesn't Bloodlines use the exact same system as DX? As in, the higher your gun skill, the faster your reticule contracts?

I cannot remeber how it was with Deus Ex exactly, but I think that Bloodline's weapon skill also influences the damage you do with it. I think that is what he means to say that is hard to accept, which is logical. Wether my grandma pulls the trigger or Jack Bauer shouldn't mean shit if the bullet enters the face.

Alpha Protocol did this well. You don't put your skillpoints in a particular weapon, then the bullets will fly all over the place. When a bullet hits its target, however, it does just as much damage as it would if you are fully skilled in that weapon.
 
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Playing: Skyrim, World of Warcraft.
Future: Dead Space 3.
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35. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 29, 2010, 04:20 Jerykk
 
I just can not accept a FPS based on dice rolls though, especially not when Deus EX showed many years before how to do FPS RPG right and without dice rolls.

Color me confused. Doesn't Bloodlines use the exact same system as DX? As in, the higher your gun skill, the faster your reticule contracts?
 
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34. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 29, 2010, 03:38 Rossafur
 
It's possible to play entirely in 3rd person, but it's a mess if you are going heavily with firearms, for the same reasons it can be problematic to do ranged in 3rd person in Fallout 3. My Malkavian was 100% melee, and 3rd person worked great. Now I'm playing a Ventrue who's using more firearms, and I find myself switching to 1st person for combat more often than not.  
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33. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 29, 2010, 03:05 Tanto Edge
 
Most of this is now 'patch that patches the patch problems the patch we introduced before the last patch caused', or 'patched cause i wanted it different' and so forth.
Great to see the 'support' but does anybody know where to find custom missions???
 
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http://www.youtube.com/user/tantoedge
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32. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 29, 2010, 02:37 eRe4s3r
 
Yes i am talking about initial release version (patch 1.2) i played this game way before the community started fixing stuff. Not sure how many that new patch fixes things, but i assume the problems with physics (getting stuck) and crashes is not fixed. Which is the prime reason not to replay this game.

But you made me curious, togglecamera = do you mean i can play the entire game in 3rd person? Does that work properly?
 
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31. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 28, 2010, 23:50 Acleacius
 
Unless you are a completionist, in which case theres a lot of really broken combat to be had which is only avoidable if you avoid quests
Can you provide specifics? Hard to believe your talking about Bloodlines, unless you are trying to use initial release state as the basis of you points.


togglecamera key

There were/are a lot of problems with Deus Ex skills, most everyone agrees. Just like most hardcore to moderate RPG fans have Bloodlines in their top 5 best.

Most all your points can be easily explained by the unfinished nature of the game, which is NOT Troika's fault. 90% of the time, this game included, it's the publishers fault for rushing or not allowing proper Q&A, hence the continued work with the UBP.
 
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.It works the same way in any country.
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30. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 28, 2010, 18:54 eRe4s3r
 
I guess you are right It just wasn't a gameplay system for me, ah well, one can't like everything...

But as a side note, i did not say DnD rules - i said RP NwN servers. They can use any gameplay function they want and are not restricted to stick to DnD rules or DnD Classes for that matter. As long as it uses dice rolls its all possible ,p Anyway, you are right, I was never a big fan of the WoD system. Maybe DnD indoctrinated me..

I just can not accept a FPS based on dice rolls though, especially not when Deus EX showed many years before how to do FPS RPG right and without dice rolls. I wonder why troika didn't copy Deus EX? Instead they ported a table top game system into a realtime FPS engine. As you say, they did it perfectly....

I don't think its a crappy RPG though else i wouldn't have played it 3 times through... but combined with combat/bugs.....

This comment was edited on Jun 28, 2010, 19:07.
 
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29. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 28, 2010, 17:49 Flatline
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 28, 2010, 16:46:
Also, i dislike... and with that i mean HATE the White Wolf abomination that is their Vampire Lore. Damage Soak, Humanity, Ghouls, BLOOD MAGIC just being the few examples.

That's obvious when you stated that D&D had better rules for roleplaying a vampire. Which also amusingly enough made it obvious that you have no clue what you're talking about. D&D is a mechanically horrible system for reasons I won't go into here, and vampires in D&D are a joke.

Your problem with Bloodlines is that it mimics the old World of Darkness system too well. That doesn't make it a crappy RPG, it just means you don't like the source material.

Seriously, combat was never a big deal if you were familiar with the table top system. Guns tended to do fuck-all to vampires to begin with, and melee weapons were preferable generally. If you get a sledgehammer or an axe, combat was stupid-easy. Even more so if you had protean 2 or something else that dealt aggravated damage.

It sounds like your problem was that you were expecting FPS style controls, but underneath that point of view was a stat-rolling system.
 
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28. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 28, 2010, 17:17 eRe4s3r
 
Unless you are a completionist, in which case theres a lot of really broken combat to be had which is only avoidable if you avoid quests ;p

But as i said before, i guess i really ate a worm with this game so yeah.. i enjoyed the story for what it was worth but the bad memories supercede the good ones.
 
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27. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 28, 2010, 16:46 eRe4s3r
 
My first playthrough involved doing that (i played the game 3 times through for each important vampire caste) 2nd and 3rd time only with god-mode (sorry am no masochist - crashes were already annoying enough)

My gripe is not with the optional paths for the quests by the way - which i know can be used to avoid some combat - my gripe is that theres 3 sections of the game with absolutely broken combat with more than 15 enemies which you can not avoid and which you have to fight - particularly at the end of the game and at least 2 "boss" fights where you meet enemies that, if you played pacifist can quickly become a roadblock without god-mode cheat and which are required to be dead for the relevant endings.

I mean sure, maybe i just encountered particularly glitchy day in Bloodlines (which is every day) but stealth usually involved me getting where i want, then a horrible confused cutscene interupts me and spawns me right in the middle of a room, in dialog where I lack 1 point in intimidate and suddenly face a battle with a guy, and his 10 goons i just sneaked past who all suddenly spotted me, through walls.

Maybe its because i have so many bad memories about combat in bloodlines masquerade that i extrapolate that, but i really, really dislike this games combat. 100 enemies in ME1 = 1 enemy in bloodlines

But my last memory (playing Patch 6.9) has not improved that mainly because besides the combat the game is also still incredible glitchy especially when it comes to sound/graphics/physics. And the game is also incredibly crash prone when you reload the game often - or alt-tab

But i guess some people like playing a broken mess even if a rpg is somewhere in it, i am not that masochistic nor forgiving even though i am a big RPG fanatic (which was the only reason i even gave Bloodlines Masquerade a chance).

Also, i dislike... and with that i mean HATE the White Wolf abomination that is their Vampire Lore. Damage Soak, Humanity, Ghouls, BLOOD MAGIC just being the few examples.

This comment was edited on Jun 28, 2010, 17:03.
 
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26. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 28, 2010, 15:30 Jerykk
 
I guess ME is more like an action shooter with dialog but thats besides the point - because Masquerade has about twice the combat amounts of Mass Effect and a 4 times worse combat (and ME1 had already bad combat..)

Did you put any points into the diplomacy and stealth skills?
 
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25. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 28, 2010, 13:27 Fion
 
Twice the combat amount as ME? You do realize that at least until the last two hours of the game you can avoid combat the entire game. You don't have to fight anything at all if you don't want to as there are always alternative routes, the ability to use vampire powers or just good old social skills to get people to do what you want. There are a few areas where you have to fight early on but you can avoid them easily.

Vampire: Bloodlines is considered by a great many to be one of the best RPG games to hit in the last decade and is on a great many of those 'top RPG games ever' lists. But that of course doesn't mean everyone is going to like it.
 
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24. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 28, 2010, 13:13 eRe4s3r
 
NwN had great mods though

I guess its odd to rank a game that sucky OC in great RPG's but fact is that NwN was a *awesome* framework for great rpg's... and some of my best RPG games i ever played were the mods in NwN (which often had quite mature themes too ,p)

I guess ME is more like an action shooter with dialog but thats besides the point - because Masquerade has about twice the combat amounts of Mass Effect and a 4 times worse combat (and ME1 had already bad combat..)
 
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23. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 28, 2010, 12:34 Jerykk
 
There is no way this game is coming ANYWHERE near the greatest RPG's (Baldurs Gate 2 / Gothic 2 / NwN / Dragon Age / Mass Effect (more action focused..) all it has going for it is vampire lore and wacky characters.

NWN and ME? Greatest RPGs? Really? NWN had a great mod community but the game itself was pretty forgettable. Leagues behind BG. And ME was 90% shooter, 10% RPG. In Bloodlines, at least you can be stealthy.
 
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22. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 28, 2010, 12:31 Zadig
 
The early versions of the unofficial patch fixed most of the broken quest and scripting issues. Since then it has been pointlessly moving items around, tinkering with stats, and fixing things that were broken while doing the previous two.

The significant problem the game has had since launch is that the latter levels are devoid of content and choices. The Chinatown hub is rather sparse for quests & characters, and everything afterward is just very linear combat missions in a game that originally offered exploration, stealth, and significant dialogue choices. Presumably the developers ran out of time and money at the end, but it's certainly not going to be fixed by a patch.
 
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21. Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Patch Jun 28, 2010, 12:08 eRe4s3r
 
True enough  
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