World of Warcraft Patch

Muscular Beaver wrote on Jun 22, 2010, 16:10: Still no new 5 man content? Im sick of raiding... Muscular Beaver wrote on Jun 24, 2010, 05:36: As for raids, I never talked about raids. I dont like them, I dont have much experience in them (except with the 20 & 40 mans in vanilla), so I dont talk about them. Care to try again? The fact that you can't decipher between what was 5-man and what was 10-man content shows us exactly how much you actually know, and how "rose-colored" those glasses really are. Dire Maul wasn't even available at launch...and when released via a patch 5/6 months later, it was intended to be one of the hardest dungeons available as it added gear above the current available tier level. As already pointed out, your list of instances were all raids prior to being changed to 5-man dungeons, long after release. You say you are sick of raiding...but you say you don't raid...you say you raided in vanilla WoW (maybe BC too?), but you apparently aren't talking about raiding. Contradict yourself much? So forgive me if I decide to talk about the difficulty level of raids as well, I wasn't aware you dictated what I could and couldn't talk about. Ever think that maybe you found the classic dungeons to be harder, is because you sucked at the game and possibly got better by the time WoTLK came around? This is of course assuming you aren't talking out your ass and have actually played WoTLK and not just repeating what someone else has said to you. This comment was edited on Jun 24, 2010, 18:47.

51.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 24, 2010, 15:42

Muscular Beaver wrote on Jun 24, 2010, 05:14: Raids. Right. Of course... They were only considered raids by some people because Tier 0 dropped from there and you were able to enter with 10 people. Do I need to remind you that you were and are only able to enter true raid instances if you actually were in a raid group? They were very doable with 5 players in crappy gear right from the beginning, they just needed to have a little skill. They were "nerfed" when tier 0.5 was released. After that they were still pretty challenging for 60s with only average gear. Far more difficult than normal WotLK instances nowadays for sure. Not a single one of those are nor were pure raid instances. The only one that comes close to a raid instance is LBRS. But if you knew WoW a little, you would know that UBRS was actually the part were 10 players were recommended. Might wanna check at least some internet links before you start posting next time... DM was actually far harder than any of the other "semi-raids" you were talking about. And it was a pure 5-man from the beginning. Sorry, but what else should I say? They were far more difficult than the ones nowadays (thats all I said), even after the nerf. If you need examples, you obviously never ran em with normal equipment. And if you cant even remember which instances were raids and which ones were 5-mans, or rather try to bend things to your will, I know very well that its useless to argue with you any further. Cant do much against ignorance. DM was 2-3 mannable. I know I got roped into doing that thing all the time for librams and the tanking sword book. As for the rest, they were raids. I am not sure what you mean 'designed'. As someone who played since 2004, they were done as raids. UBRS was usually done with 15 btw. They were changed to 5 mans and nurfed that way in mid 2006. And yes I am well aware you could do them with 5 people. I did UBRS with 5 people regularly for chromatics when it was still usually done with 15. That doesn't change how it was regularly run. And again, it wasn't hard. It was almost all tank and spank. That wasn't difficult content. There were very few fights with really interesting mechanics. Unless you consider a fear or MC something new and difficult. About the only difficult thing was hoping the priest in your UBRS run didn't want those awful shoulders and decide to start the event without telling anyone. Even that was fine assuming the people in the back that died didn't leave the group. Since you still cannot name anything you found challenging other than a generic "dm was hard' I will assume you are trolling or have some serious rose-tinted glasses on. And I am not sure what you mean if I knew WoW more... I have been playing it since the beta. It seems you forgot what things in vanilla were really like.

50.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 24, 2010, 05:36

Krovven wrote on Jun 23, 2010, 13:58:
Uhm, so you are admitting that you never played WoW a lot because you always quit when you reached max level and then you want to tell me stuff about how hard heroic instances were? Sorry but do I have to take you seriously?

Obviously you want to be a dick...shocker I know, based on your post history.

Ah, there we go. Personal attacks because I showed you a huge flaw in your credibility. Mature.
Same can be said about yourself, if you didnt notice. Guess interpretation and point of view is everything, as you very well know, since you abuse them so much.

As you can't comprehend the simplest of things, I'll spell it out for you. Spending hours going through the process of finding a group, traveling to the dungeon, having people drop group, group wipes then disbands, only doing small portions of dungeons...all of this taking up hours and hours of time with nothing being accomplished...this was not fun for me. Questing basically ended at max level, thus my enjoyment ended as the dungeon system and end-game at the time was not fun. It was not fun for the majority of people. Blizzard has been very vocal about how they recognized this, and have made the changes over the years to fix exactly these problems.

I understood it the first time. What is there more to argue? I said speak for yourself.
I and my friends enjoyed that time a lot. I ran PUGs and guild 5-mans and 5-mans and raids with my friends with part PUGs. They were almost always enjoyable, and all veteran players I still know agree.
Sure there were the loners that never ran with friends, nor had any, and they whined a lot in the forums why they are being left behind.
As you may know the ones who whine the loudest in the forums most of the time get their will. It doesnt matter if it is the right thing to do. I remember the time when the rogue class was about to get a percentage calculated expose armor and people started to whine that it wouldnt help as much on cloth armor as the old form. Blizzard listened to them. Perfect example.

I remember very well running both Heroics with always horribly geared chars and friends. That was far harder in BC heroics than it was in WotLK.

I disagree. The dungeons I did do in BC, were no more difficult than WoTLK dungeons at the same time in the life of the expansion. Near the end of BC expansion, people were walking through Heroic instances, just as they are now in WoTK. As for raids, I can't compare very much, but of what I have seen, there are plenty of WoTLK raids that are very challenging, even when overgeared, due to the unique and imaginative designs of the mechanics. Hard mode raids in ICC easily trump the difficulty of old world raids.

Alright you disagree even though you stopped playing as soon as you reached 70.

I remember wiping all the time in BC heroics. Even on the simplest pulls, not to mention bosses that needed more skill than the wussies in WotLK. I also had to work far longer in normal instances before I tried to seriously run heroics. People were far more concerned about equipment in heroics in BC and they instantly kicked people with bad equipment. Why? Because the 5-man instances were harder.
I also remember seeing boatloads of whining on the chat channels about how crappy PUGs are on heroics and people suck so much. Ive seen whines like that in WotLK, but never even close to the amount as it was present in BC.

But ok, tanking and healing was made far easier with WotLK, but still BC instances were no more difficult. Sure.

You obviously never ran heroics as a healer or tank in BC (oh well, ok maybe as a paladin).

As for raids, I never talked about raids. I dont like them, I dont have much experience in them (except with the 20 & 40 mans in vanilla), so I dont talk about them.

This comment was edited on Jun 24, 2010, 05:53.




Oh that is so lame... You will PAY for your use of inappropriate dialogue! - Mojo Jojo

49.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 24, 2010, 05:14

Raids. Right. Of course...
They were only considered raids by some people because Tier 0 dropped from there and you were able to enter with 10 people. Do I need to remind you that you were and are only able to enter true raid instances if you actually were in a raid group?
They were very doable with 5 players in crappy gear right from the beginning, they just needed to have a little skill.
They were "nerfed" when tier 0.5 was released. After that they were still pretty challenging for 60s with only average gear. Far more difficult than normal WotLK instances nowadays for sure.

Not a single one of those are nor were pure raid instances. The only one that comes close to a raid instance is LBRS. But if you knew WoW a little, you would know that UBRS was actually the part were 10 players were recommended.
Might wanna check at least some internet links before you start posting next time...

DM was actually far harder than any of the other "semi-raids" you were talking about. And it was a pure 5-man from the beginning.

Sorry, but what else should I say?
They were far more difficult than the ones nowadays (thats all I said), even after the nerf. If you need examples, you obviously never ran em with normal equipment. And if you cant even remember which instances were raids and which ones were 5-mans, or rather try to bend things to your will, I know very well that its useless to argue with you any further.
Cant do much against ignorance.




Oh that is so lame... You will PAY for your use of inappropriate dialogue! - Mojo Jojo

48.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 23, 2010, 16:02

Muscular Beaver wrote on Jun 23, 2010, 04:04: Youre right, there werent many 5-mans in vanilla. Scholomance, DM, Stratholme, BRD, LBRS. BUT they were huge. One run could take a whole day. Normaly you only ran a small section of that instance because everything would have taken too long. Why shouldnt there be proper 5-man content? Other than DM you just named a bunch of raids. The fact that later they were changed into 5 mans after being nurfed does't change that fact. Secondly no, I ran them at 60 and they weren't hard then. Which one did you find difficult? I asked that and you just kind of ignored me and said "YES THEY SO WERE!" Also why do you think any of those besides BRD took a long time is beyond me. I never said propper 5 man content shouldn't exist. It does exist. I told you not to expect tons of new 5 man max level content because it takes a long time to develop and people blow though it in a day. They just released 3, I doubt we will see anymore before Cata. This comment was edited on Jun 23, 2010, 22:13.

47.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 23, 2010, 13:58

Speak for yourself. Pretty sure I was...as are you. Uhm, so you are admitting that you never played WoW a lot because you always quit when you reached max level and then you want to tell me stuff about how hard heroic instances were? Sorry but do I have to take you seriously? Obviously you want to be a dick...shocker I know, based on your post history. As you can't comprehend the simplest of things, I'll spell it out for you. Spending hours going through the process of finding a group, traveling to the dungeon, having people drop group, group wipes then disbands, only doing small portions of dungeons...all of this taking up hours and hours of time with nothing being accomplished...this was not fun for me. Questing basically ended at max level, thus my enjoyment ended as the dungeon system and end-game at the time was not fun. It was not fun for the majority of people. Blizzard has been very vocal about how they recognized this, and have made the changes over the years to fix exactly these problems. I remember very well running both Heroics with always horribly geared chars and friends. That was far harder in BC heroics than it was in WotLK. I disagree. The dungeons I did do in BC, were no more difficult than WoTLK dungeons at the same time in the life of the expansion. Near the end of BC expansion, people were walking through Heroic instances, just as they are now in WoTK. As for raids, I can't compare very much, but of what I have seen, there are plenty of WoTLK raids that are very challenging, even when overgeared, due to the unique and imaginative designs of the mechanics. Hard mode raids in ICC easily trump the difficulty of old world raids. This comment was edited on Jun 23, 2010, 15:11.

46.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 23, 2010, 13:07

Krovven wrote on Jun 23, 2010, 12:53:
Right, cus taking all day to run 5-man dungeons is what people want...

Back then, there was no random dungeon finder, there was no battlerealm instances. You either were in a guild and could get people to run instances if they felt like it, or you spammed chat for an hour trying to find a group. Hoping then once you got that group, spent the next 20min getting there (as people died in transit) then finally getting started, that someone didn't leave, or the group wiped, disbanded, or you didnt just do one section of a dungeon that didn't have loot for your character....RIGHT, FUN TIMES THAT WAS!

Speak for yourself. Pre-expansion WoW was the most fun for me.

As for some people comparing how Vanilla/BC dungeons were hard compared to WoTLK dungeons...it's all gear relative. WoTK Heroics were not easy when the expansion first came out, nor were Naxx or Ulduar, all of which are easy now because there has been what, 3 or 4 tiers of gear since the expansion launched?

Uhm, so you are admitting that you never played WoW a lot because you always quit when you reached max level and then you want to tell me stuff about how hard heroic instances were?
Sorry but do I have to take you seriously?
WotLK Heroics were FAR FAR easier at the start than any heroic in BC at the start. I remember very well running both Heroics with always horribly geared chars and friends. That was far harder in BC heroics than it was in WotLK. I actually remember very well how I thought "these are supposed to be heroics?" when I first tried them in WotLK.




Oh that is so lame... You will PAY for your use of inappropriate dialogue! - Mojo Jojo

45.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 23, 2010, 12:53

Right, cus taking all day to run 5-man dungeons is what people want... Back then, there was no random dungeon finder, there was no battlerealm instances. You either were in a guild and could get people to run instances if they felt like it, or you spammed chat for an hour trying to find a group. Hoping then once you got that group, spent the next 20min getting there (as people died in transit) then finally getting started, that someone didn't leave, or the group wiped, disbanded, or you didnt just do one section of a dungeon that didn't have loot for your character....RIGHT, FUN TIMES THAT WAS! All of this and more is why after I hit level 60 on my first character, I quit the game 2 days later. I eventually went back to the game, played a Warlock for awhile, quit for awhile, went back again for BC, got him to 70, quit again... Enter WoTLK, started a Death Knight cus after watching the GTTV review of the expansion, DK's looked like a blast to play, with the phasing, how quests were designed, storyline, etc, etc... I haven't stopped my account since WoTLK came out. I only ran 5-mans and quested, then the RDF tool came out and changed everything. I got badges, upped my gear, started doing the odd PUG raid, to joining a guild and raiding ICC, to being promoted to Officer, to becoming Raid Leader (when previous one quit the game) and taking us from being a 7/12 ICC guild to downing Lich King in a couple of months. As for some people comparing how Vanilla/BC dungeons were hard compared to WoTLK dungeons...it's all gear relative. WoTK Heroics were not easy when the expansion first came out, nor were Naxx or Ulduar, all of which are easy now because there has been what, 3 or 4 tiers of gear since the expansion launched? Blizzard have talked about the possibility of having another harder dungeon mode, and I would love to see that...but I can't expect it will happen anytime soon.

44.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 23, 2010, 04:04

MattyC wrote on Jun 22, 2010, 19:07:
Muscular Beaver wrote on Jun 22, 2010, 17:42:
MattyC wrote on Jun 22, 2010, 16:16:
Muscular Beaver wrote on Jun 22, 2010, 16:10:
Still no new 5 man content?
Im sick of raiding...

It is a short onyish/voaish instance. And they just added 3 new 5 mans with ICC, so not sure what you mean by still.

Just? Thats over half a year ago and those 3 were extremely short and not really challenging (except the third one, if you were grouping with idiots).
Short or not, I simply dont like raiding anymore.

I really hope there will be lots of new 5 mans with Cataclysm that are at least as challenging as the ones in BC, or even better, like in vanilla.

That was the last content patch. It isn't like they have been releasing raids in the mean time. I also am not sure what you mean by challenging 5 mans in vanilla. Which one was hard? They were all very easy as I recall. The only hard 5 man I can ever really think of was the original pre-nerf heroic MGT in BC. And it wasn't really so much 'hard' as it was stupidly tuned. That trash pull before kael was harder than any boss in any 5 man in WoW. Unless you had say 2 mages and a lock for DPS. Then it became the easiest heroic in all of WoW.

Cata will have lots more 5 mans for leveling content, I am sure. I doubt you will see many new ones at max level though. Their isn't much reason anymore. They take too long to develop and people blow through them in a day. They made raiding easily puggable to fill that gap. They were never really able to roll out 5 mans. I mean in vanilla they had what...? Mara and then a million years later DM. Then TBC really just had MGT. The ICC ones were the ones for Wrath.

Vanilla 5-mans being easy? Maybe when you were level 70 or 80. But at the start of WoW those were really challenging for quite some time.
There were lots of challenging instances in BC and vanilla. Wipes were totally normal.

But since WotLK instances are extremely easy, quick and not very challenging (maybe the first time you run em). Sure, its nice to see PUGs not wiping anymore, but its just a stupid grindfest now.
Actually I found myself running the 3rd ICC 5-man only, because that one was one of the more challenging ones. Of course you had to have bad players to make it challenging, but me as a tank and healer could compensate that very well. That was my personal challenge... to make a bad group good. But that got boring quickly too because people got geared extremely fast. Even bad players got good equipment so that they wouldnt be as much fail anymore.

Youre right, there werent many 5-mans in vanilla. Scholomance, DM, Stratholme, BRD, LBRS. BUT they were huge. One run could take a whole day. Normaly you only ran a small section of that instance because everything would have taken too long.

Why shouldnt there be proper 5-man content? WoW has been going the casual way for quite some time now. That includes 5-mans.
Is it too much to ask to make 5-mans challenging again? Is it too much to ask to release a 5-man along with new raid instances?
I mean Blizzard make boatloads of money still. I would like to see some of that put into content, if they are not able to put it into balancing.




Oh that is so lame... You will PAY for your use of inappropriate dialogue! - Mojo Jojo

43.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 23, 2010, 03:14

rist3903

I miss the PvP. It was the last thing holding me to the game, and then I kept getting a disconnect bug that no one else had that seemed to happen 90% of the time in PvP. Having just recently gotten the blizzard authenticator made this problem 10 times worse. In a pitched battle in PvP, get disconnected, and have to type in the number every time. I would disc several times in one battleground. Extremely unfun! Asked tech support about it, they said delete your WTF folder and restart on your add-ons. Didn't help, so I left. This comment was edited on Jun 23, 2010, 03:21.

42.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 22, 2010, 22:40

ColoradoHoudini wrote on Jun 22, 2010, 22:09: looking back at it, scheduling my day around a video game to raid was stupid.. ugh. That really isn't needed anymore. Well it was never needed, but I mean you can now see all the content in the game without doing so. I haven't really been a 'raider' since vanilla. It was fun doing the original 60 naxx, AQ, getting server faction firsts and all that, but it just ate too much time. Like 3 nights a week dedicated to that. Ever since then I have just made enough friends to sort of pug my way around. Easier since I am a tank who has been on the server since launch and has 'real life' friends who are 'active/scheduled raiders' so I know plenty of people. That makes it easier I am sure, but just saying. You can really kind of raid whenever you want anymore. No need to schedule around it or play it like any other game if you don't want to.

41.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 22, 2010, 22:12

Mr. Tact

I've been out for two months now. The only thing I miss is the interaction with the people I spent so much time with. Not sure if I'll rejoin for Cataclysm or not. But frankly, I hope I have something else filling my time by then. Spending 5.5 years playing one game seems like quite enough...




Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.

40.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 22, 2010, 22:09

ColoradoHoudini

when my guild killed Arthas back about 4-5 months ago.. I took my break from the game. It's been great too, and looking back at it, scheduling my day around a video game to raid was stupid.. ugh.

39.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 22, 2010, 22:06

Kxmode

Acleacius wrote on Jun 22, 2010, 21:37: It's been about a year or so since I played, did they redo the classes again, or is that upcoming in the expansion? You don't want to know. WOW will steal your soul!

38.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 22, 2010, 21:37

Acleacius

It's been about a year or so since I played, did they redo the classes again, or is that upcoming in the expansion?




Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history.....and they are stupid. Dwight D. Eisenhower

37.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 22, 2010, 20:43

Kedyn

I remember early heroics in TBC. Now THAT was a challenge. At the end of Heroic Blood Furnace if anyone gets aggro for a second, it's instagib. I think the problem with 5 man heroics right now is that they're all AoE tank and spank. There's nothing fun or challenging about any of it, and it doesn't require any crowd control or anything more than AoE spam, assisting, and big heals/HP. The only instances I get excited for is 5 man ToC and Halls of Reflection. 10 man ICC, though, is the highlight of my week. Instance/heroic tanking is dull, but raid tanking is a fucking party.

36.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 22, 2010, 20:26

Wallshadows

I told you guys. It's always the same story when Blizzard pushes a patch with any kind of new content. The first day you may as well sit on your hands while you either lag or sit on the connection screen. They push out several rollbacks through the week and call it a job well done. Next patch, rinse and repeat.

35.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 22, 2010, 19:18

That was the last content patch. It isn't like they have been releasing raids in the mean time. Well technically they have, as Heroic modes weren't available immediately, nor was each wing. But that was to prevent guilds from burning through the content in a couple weeks and burning themselves out.

34.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 22, 2010, 19:16

#WoWInfo We are extending our maintenance to apply the latest content patch and will provide an additional update by 5:00PM PDT. Well I'd rather have it working when it does come up than have the servers and game be buggy and have to do restarts etc. They've got 2 hrs till my raid time...

33.

Re: World of Warcraft Patch

Jun 22, 2010, 19:07