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10. Re: etc., etc. Jun 4, 2010, 12:27 Jerykk
 
Can you recommend a character development path that avoids some of AP's issues?

Like in DX and Bloodlines, stealth is generally more enjoyable than combat in AP. That said, I thought melee was pretty fun in AP too (flying knee ftw).
 
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9. Re: etc., etc. Jun 4, 2010, 09:30 Verno
 
MattyC wrote on Jun 3, 2010, 21:55:
Sounds like a bunch of excuses and apologies for AP.

E.g. "Mass Effect 2 moves you through sparsely populated boxes asking you to believe they're vast cities or sprawling space stations. It is absolutely not up to the task of what it intends to show you. But Alpha Protocol is under no such delusion. Its hubs are simply safe houses, and its levels are simply its missions" um what? So the same thing is fine in AP because it isn't 'asking you to pretend'? Can't say I recall a pop up message in ME or ME 2 saying "OK NOW OU HAVE TO PRETEND SUPER HARD THAT THIS PLACE IS BIG OK?"


If you think AP is the better game, that is fine. However those 'reasons' may cause me to doubt your conviction. They are pretty lame.

Yep exactly. If we go by the loose definitions the author poses then you could easily do a 1000 ways ME2 is better than AP. Just going by the forums I frequent, the few people I've seen who have been happy with Alpha Protocol also paid nothing for it. I can respect the ambition and what they were shooting for but it's a bunch of haphazardly strewn together gameplay mechanics that do not fit cohesively with substandard production values. If you're getting the game for free through various means then please, give it a whirl. If you're plunking down $60 for it then you're going to be really upset.
 
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Playing: Gauntlet, Dark Souls 2, Wasteland 2
Watching: Intruders, 24 Live Another Day, The Signal
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8. Re: etc., etc. Jun 4, 2010, 08:53 JoeNapalm
 
winnetou wrote on Jun 4, 2010, 07:52:
Jerykk wrote on Jun 4, 2010, 01:51:
Almost every classic action RPG has suffered from the same issues as AP: Deus Ex, System Shock, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines.
Can you recommend a character development path that avoids some of AP's issues? It sounds like an interesting game, but I'd like to avoid another "could have been great if.." experience like I had in Bloodlines.

Not sure what you mean...did you gimp your character in Bloodlines?

Bloodlines, while obviously kicked out the door of a moving van in the middle of the night, was nurtured and mended by Wesp into one of the best CRPGs ever.

That said, if you pick a Clan that isn't suited to you, yeah...you're not going to do well.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
 
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7. Re: etc., etc. Jun 4, 2010, 07:52 winnetou
 
Jerykk wrote on Jun 4, 2010, 01:51:
Almost every classic action RPG has suffered from the same issues as AP: Deus Ex, System Shock, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines.
Can you recommend a character development path that avoids some of AP's issues? It sounds like an interesting game, but I'd like to avoid another "could have been great if.." experience like I had in Bloodlines.
 
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6. Re: etc., etc. Jun 4, 2010, 01:51 Jerykk
 
ME2 is a better shooter than AP. AP is a better RPG. Since shooters (especially third-person cover-based console shooters) are a dime a dozen, my favor leans toward AP. AP actually gives you meaningful choice. You can shoot, talk or sneak your way through most situations. In ME2, you basically have to shoot your way through 90% of the game. The moral choices in ME2 were a joke as well. If you were playing a Paragon, you chose either the blue option or the option in the upper right-hand corner. If you were a Renegade, you chose either the red option or the option in the lower right-hand corner. No thought required. You didn't even have to read or listen to any of the dialogue. In addition, the vast majority of choices in ME2 had no meaningful gameplay consequence other than giving you Paragon/Renegade points. In AP, your choices have both short-term and long-term repercussions that affect future missions.

I enjoyed ME2 but AP is easily the better RPG and I do love RPGs. Almost every classic action RPG has suffered from the same issues as AP: Deus Ex, System Shock, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines. I think the big difference is that these games were all PC-centric and targeted an audience that favors substance over style, whereas AP mistakenly tried to target the console audience that favors style over substance. Had AP been designed for the PC, not only would it have been a better game but I think it would have been much better received as well.
 
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5. Re: etc., etc. Jun 4, 2010, 00:28 Dr. D. Schreber
 
I think ME2 is actually a good example of how even big-budget games are under-funded. The presentation is off in several places, not just population density. There are often people sitting down with arms or feet floating above the arm-rest or the floor (Joker being the most obvious, since you can see him a lot.) The holographic interfaces in-game are a total joke, filled with gibberish, occasional geometric shapes and sin waves; compare what they look like and how the people working holographic interfaces in-game look (especially Joker flying the Normandy) to this trailer. The differences are subtle and would be even more subtle in-game when the camera is never that close to the interfaces, but there's a striking difference in how much suspension of disbelief is required to believe that these are actual GUIs people are doing things on instead of placeholders.

All of that aside, I think Alpha Protocol makes a better world presentation simply because it has a smaller world. Since the hubs are safehouses and there is no physical transition from a hub to a mission, it doesn't need to give you the impression of huge openness.

Some of the points are silly; there's nothing invalid with the way the Illusive Man is written, it's like getting annoyed that Half-Life doesn't tell you (and probably never will, as much as some people are expecting it from Episode 3) who the G-Man is. The shop makes things feel more relevant than they do in Mass Effect 2, but in the end, a lot of it is the same idea; incremental upgrades as you get further in the game.

(Although the AKA 47 going on in AP is really silly. The Five-SeveN and the MP5 are made by "Rittergrupen?" The Masada is made by "Hamilton?" What's next, the M-16 is made by Russia?)

Also, I'll take AP's bypass and lockpicking minigames over ME2's any day, but the hacking minigame is dildos. I never thought I would miss the circular frogger game from ME1 or the matching code chunks in ME2.

What we really should take from all of this is that the ultimate game would be one that puts Steven Heck and Urdnot Wrex in the same room.
 
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NOT THE BEES! NOT THE BEES THEY'RE IN MY EYES AARRGRHGHGGAFHGHFGHFG!
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4. Re: etc., etc. Jun 4, 2010, 00:00 PropheT
 
MattyC wrote on Jun 3, 2010, 21:55:
If you think AP is the better game, that is fine. However those 'reasons' may cause me to doubt your conviction. They are pretty lame.

I don't know, I think that's actually a pretty good point about ME2 even if I don't know anything about AP's game system to compare it.

ME2 gets a lot of hype and love that it only earns by the whole being a lot better than the parts, something that people seem to be saying about Alpha Protocol as well.
 
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3. Re: etc., etc. Jun 3, 2010, 22:44 eRe4s3r
 
Why Mass effect 2 wins over Alpha Protocol

We can romance Tali in ME2 (And get a full rundown of Quarian flotilla politics)
We can't romance SIS in AP (And get NILL history or related information)

Mute Characters are extremely rare, so that they did not expand on that (and her relation and history to the G22 leader) is the biggest waste of potential i have ever seen.

Still AP is enjoyable and the many ways you can tackle a mission are nice. Though the gun-play is terrible.
 
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2. Re: etc., etc. Jun 3, 2010, 22:18 Nucas
 
i'm really liking alpha protocol so far but if i had to choose, it would be mass effect 2 purely for fit and finish, so to speak. me2 is a very high quality production.
it's too early for me to say for sure but i'd say alpha protocol fits the bill for obsidian. ambitious design and substandard mechanics.
 
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1. Re: etc., etc. Jun 3, 2010, 21:55 MattyC
 
Sounds like a bunch of excuses and apologies for AP.

E.g. "Mass Effect 2 moves you through sparsely populated boxes asking you to believe they're vast cities or sprawling space stations. It is absolutely not up to the task of what it intends to show you. But Alpha Protocol is under no such delusion. Its hubs are simply safe houses, and its levels are simply its missions" um what? So the same thing is fine in AP because it isn't 'asking you to pretend'? Can't say I recall a pop up message in ME or ME 2 saying "OK NOW OU HAVE TO PRETEND SUPER HARD THAT THIS PLACE IS BIG OK?"


If you think AP is the better game, that is fine. However those 'reasons' may cause me to doubt your conviction. They are pretty lame.
 
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