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Sid Meier's Civilization V Announced

2K Games announces Sid Meier's Civilization V is now in development at Firaxis Game Studio, saying the turn-based strategy sequel is expected for release this fall, in addition to the previously announced Civilization Network for Facebook. A preliminary Civilization V Website is online with information and screenshots from the game, promising the launch of the complete website "soon." The game will use an all-new engine and introduce some gameplay changes; here's a bit:

Civilization V takes this definitive strategy game series in new directions with the introduction of hexagon tiles allowing for deeper strategy, more realistic gameplay and stunning organic landscapes for players to explore as they expand their empire. The brand new engine orchestrates a spectacular visual experience that brings players closer to the Civ experience than ever, featuring fully animated leaders interacting with players from a screen-filling diplomatic scene and speaking in their native language for the first time. Wars between empires feel massive as armies dominate the landscape, and combat is more exciting and intense than ever before. The addition of ranged bombardment allows players to fire weapons from behind the front lines, challenging players to develop clever new strategies to guarantee victory on the battlefield. In addition to the new gameplay features debuting in Civilization V, an extensive suite of community, modding and multiplayer elements will also make an appearance.

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56 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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56. Re: Awesome Feb 20, 2010, 09:08 DG
 
Apaches seem to fly in 6's while Wiki shows spearmen formations range from 16 to 1500.

According to Wiki only about 1/3 of the helicopters lost in Iraq have been due to hostile fire - even when the enemy has flak and anti-air missiles two thirds of losses are from crashes (sometimes together).

Similar "ridiculous" losses happen with tanks v spearmen, but then we're losing quite a few tanks to civilians armed with petrol bombs...
 
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55. Re: Awesome Feb 19, 2010, 13:34 Yosemite Sam
 
Sweet, hex tiles nice, ranged bombard nice, heh looks like they are doing the regiments thing super sweet, hope they have unique units for every single civilization too, save me a whole lotta MOD work.

EDIT actually ranged bombardment might not be so good. In CIV3 it was poorly done, once I got railroad I was practically invincable, just built up a ton of arty and nothing could get into my boarders. I just pounded the crap out of them then swept up the remains. Hope they have a way to use the feature without it becomming so powerful.

This comment was edited on Feb 19, 2010, 13:47.
 
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CIV4 MOD http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326525
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54. Re: Awesome Feb 19, 2010, 01:03 Beamer
 
The whole "they sleep sometime" argument falls apart when you point out that after an attack the helicopters go back outside the city. They're only in there during an attack. In theory they should not lose.

In Civ 4 they rarely lose, regardless.

Still, the game would be less fun if it were more realistic in that way. It's rolling dice, and if you take that chance away and make it wholly predictable it's just frustrating.
 
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53. Re: Awesome Feb 19, 2010, 00:03 Kosumo
 
Allthumbsup Crowngrin Cool Kiss Laugh2 Thumbsup Wall

My 1000th post, and in a Civ thread, me so HAPPY

On topic - in the Spearmen vs AH64 battle, that win by the Spearmen could be due to the weather as well, and also as is represented unit by the unit not being able to capture the city, air control does not most of the time lead to total control and victory of the ground. Does not the AH64 get bonus against tanks anyway showing that their design is not waste spearman (hey, most most most of the time the gunship cleans them out anyway)

Civilization V - I can't wait
 
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52. Re: Awesome Feb 18, 2010, 22:47 NKD
 
This is all well and good, but this isn't a simulator.  
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If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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51. Re: Awesome Feb 18, 2010, 22:38 PHJF
 
A Spearman, or 10,000 of them, are never, ever going to defeat an AH64. Ever. An AH64 is only on the ground when it is refueling or rearming. When an AH64 is refueling or rearming it is within a fortified zone, a zone the likes of which men wielding spears are not able to successfully assault.

The argument, "well, ten thousand men with spears could successfully assault such a position..." is also completely untrue because a spearmen force 10,000 strong would not have the necessary a) mobility or b) stealth to mount such an operation. The base housing an AH64 would be so well defended and at a range so far from said spearmen that counter operations from said base (including the AH64 itself) would decimate any number of approaching spearmen and utterly crush their morale in the process.

Nonetheless, Spearmen v. AH64 is definitely one of the more interesting arguments born of the internet recently.
 
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50. Re: Awesome Feb 18, 2010, 22:10 Bhruic
 
Also, my two point wishlist:

There are mods you can get that'll do both of those.
 
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49. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization V Announced Feb 18, 2010, 21:33 Quboid
 
JohnnyRotten wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 21:00:
I think you're missing the point - that the hasty generalization originally presented was so entirely one sided as to invalidate the premise.

I tried to present this by simply reversing the objects of the arguments presented (Apaches for spear men), which in my opinion makes the new argument just as ridiculous or just as plausible as the original statement.

It was making the case that a spearman unit could beat an Apache unit. I acknowledged that it's very unlikely and a large amount of lucky breaks would be required. That's not being one-sided, I'd made it clear that this would be an exceptional case.

My case made sense (at least you haven't directly pointed out any logic errors). Reversing it does not make sense because as Yifes said, it's not a 1:1 ratio. An Apache unit wouldn't even be a dozen. There could (again, in an exceptional case) be a warrior:helicopter ratio of 10000:1 and even in a best-case scenario I'd say 100:1. The Apaches could run out of ammo first!

Also reversing it doesn't make sense as I didn't say one weapon, I was responding to your phrase one button.

Finally, fighting on whose terms. Well, again, I stated that this would be an exception case so the fight would be on the spearmen's terms. If I was saying it was fine for spearmen to regularly beat helicopters then that would be one-sided, but I'm not so it's not. From my experience, it's a minority - a small minority - of the time that this sort of underdog victory happens. Plus it tends to happen more when the spearmen are defending as they get the defensive/fortified bonuses which is pretty much because that means the battle is more likely to be on their terms. In any event, I don't think it is a toss up whose terms it is fought on. If the spearmen disperse and shelter with civilians, the helicopters can't just blast the hell out of them. I can't think of a way the helicopters can regain the initiative - and apparently, neither can Bush/Blair/Brown/Obama because the same thing (albeit with a much smaller tech gap) is playing out in Iraq and Afghanistan.

My argument holds up. Your reversal fails on numerous accounts. So no, I don't see how that works at all.
 
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48. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization V Announced Feb 18, 2010, 21:10 JohnnyRotten
 
Yifes wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 21:09:

I guess in the end the problem lies with trying to rationalize Civ's abstract gameplay.

Yahtzee.
 
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47. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization V Announced Feb 18, 2010, 21:09 Yifes
 
I think you're missing the point - that the hasty generalization originally presented was so entirely one sided as to invalidate the premise.

I tried to present this by simply reversing the objects of the arguments presented (Apaches for spear men), which in my opinion makes the new argument just as ridiculous or just as plausible as the original statement.

I guess in the end the problem lies with trying to rationalize Civ's abstract gameplay.
 
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46. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization V Announced Feb 18, 2010, 21:00 JohnnyRotten
 
Yifes wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 20:56:

One apache unit in Civ 4 cannot represent a thousand apaches. They cost $18 million each and only ~1k of them were ever built, compared to god knows how many spears there are. No, one spearman unit and one apache unit are not equal numerically, just like one aircraft carrier in game does not represent one thousand aircraft carriers.

I think you're missing the point - that the hasty generalization originally presented was so entirely one sided as to invalidate the premise.

I tried to present this by simply reversing the objects of the arguments presented (Apaches for spear men), which in my opinion makes the new argument just as ridiculous or just as plausible as the original statement.
 
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45. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization V Announced Feb 18, 2010, 20:56 Yifes
 
Really?

How many Apaches? I don't know how many Sid Meier imagines but I'd guess a thousand, maybe ten thousand. What weapon does an spearman have that will take care of all them? And what if they don't conveniently all fly in one place?

What if they take refuge hundreds of feet in the air and pick the spearman off when they're on the ground. If they have the sense to fight the battle on their terms, as they're perfectly capable of doing, the spearman on their own aren't much use.

See how that works?

No. Look at the size of ancient armies vs. how many spearmen you see in game. It's conceivable that one unit in game represents thousands of spearmen. Only ~1k apaches were ever made. You can't possibly say that 1 apache unit in game also represents thousands of actual helicopters. By your logic Sid meier will be imagining thousands or tens of thousands of aircraft carriers =/

This comment was edited on Feb 18, 2010, 21:05.
 
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44. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization V Announced Feb 18, 2010, 20:54 Boston
 
Let's see... if I was commanding an army of spearmen against AH64s, I would draw some, or all, helicopters away from their base during middle of night, using half of my army as diversion, then use the other half to sneak into the base and sabotage the fuel supply and maybe pick off a few of napping pilots.  
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43. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization V Announced Feb 18, 2010, 20:43 JohnnyRotten
 
Quboid wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 19:26:
Really?

How many spearmen? I don't know how many Sid Meier imagines but I'd guess a thousand, maybe ten thousand. What weapon does an Apache have that will take care of all them? And what if they don't conveniently all stand in one place? What if they take refuge throughout the city and pick the helicopters off when they're on the ground. If they have the sense to fight the battle on their terms, as they're perfectly capable of doing, the helicopters on their own aren't much use.

Really?

How many Apaches? I don't know how many Sid Meier imagines but I'd guess a thousand, maybe ten thousand. What weapon does an spearman have that will take care of all them? And what if they don't conveniently all fly in one place?

What if they take refuge hundreds of feet in the air and pick the spearman off when they're on the ground. If they have the sense to fight the battle on their terms, as they're perfectly capable of doing, the spearman on their own aren't much use.

See how that works?
 
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42. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization V Announced Feb 18, 2010, 20:42 Jason
 
Also, spearmen vs AH64 battles don't take months. They take exactly the amount of time it takes for the AH64 to fly within a mile or so of the spearmen, press one button, and then fly home.

Unless there is a farmer on the flightpath with an AK47 or mechanical component fails etc (all represented with the random factor in CIV).

I do find it amusing when a battleship explodes performing a similar role (because it would likely be 20kms off the spearmen when firing, and one considers the improbability of a spear penetrating normal hull plate, let alone a 12inch armor belt, but then again even battleships have been known to suffer spontaneous magazine and/or turret explosions. The possibility being modelled in CIV is real.
 
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41. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization V Announced Feb 18, 2010, 20:42 Quboid
 
Are the pilots in their helicopters 24/7? Are their ground crews, ammo, fuel and other supplies??

If the spearmen fight on their terms, it's possible.
 
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40. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization V Announced Feb 18, 2010, 19:41 PHJF
 
OK buddy, find the nearest USMC base and ask them to let you throw a spear at one of the attack choppers. Apparently common sense has eluded you.  
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39. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization V Announced Feb 18, 2010, 19:26 Quboid
 
JohnnyRotten wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 19:19:
PHJF wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 18:02:
But where do you draw the line?

You draw the line at spearmen taking down AH64s.

Agree.

Also, spearmen vs AH64 battles don't take months. They take exactly the amount of time it takes for the AH64 to fly within a mile or so of the spearmen, press one button, and then fly home.

Really?

How many spearmen? I don't know how many Sid Meier imagines but I'd guess a thousand, maybe ten thousand. What weapon does an Apache have that will take care of all them? And what if they don't conveniently all stand in one place? What if they take refuge throughout the city and pick the helicopters off when they're on the ground. If they have the sense to fight the battle on their terms, as they're perfectly capable of doing, the helicopters on their own aren't much use.
 
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38. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization V Announced Feb 18, 2010, 19:19 JohnnyRotten
 
PHJF wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 18:02:
But where do you draw the line?

You draw the line at spearmen taking down AH64s.

Agree.

Also, spearmen vs AH64 battles don't take months. They take exactly the amount of time it takes for the AH64 to fly within a mile or so of the spearmen, press one button, and then fly home.
 
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37. Re: Sid Meier's Civilization V Announced Feb 18, 2010, 19:15 JohnnyRotten
 
Dmitri_M wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 13:03:
I skipped 4 even though I think it was likely better than 3..

I never could get into IV. Every game I played just seemed like I was a passenger on the trip. Maybe cause the computer players were a little less likely to go Ghengis Khan on you. I never had a game where I was defending on three borders from the various hordes.

In Civ III, it seemed like I always doing that. Seemed more exciting. IMHO.
 
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