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Star Trek Online Needs a "Meaningful" Death Penalty

Cryptic says their MMORPG Star Trek Online needs a "meaningful" death penalty, so there's some consequence to those "he's dead Jim" moments in the Trekkie MMORPG. "I get that people want to feel a sense of risk when they’re fighting in battles, but if the only emotion you feel when you’re playing a game is fear that you’re going to lose some time due to an arbitrary gameplay mechanic, we’re probably not doing something right," executive producer Craig Zinkievich explains to IncGamers. "We are looking into finding a meaningful way to give players a deeper sense of loss when something bad happens. But we want it to feel right, rather than just like an arbitrary penalty." How about this: Dead players must be shot onto the surface of the planet created by the Genesis device.

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44 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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44. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 19, 2010, 06:58 Sphinx
 
Perhaps a system like in EQ2 where if you die your gear gets degraded by 10%. If it hits zero your gear is broken and you have to get it repaired or you can repair it anytime either at a repair shop or with repair kits created by other players.

Regardless, I think the bigger issue is the in-game economics right now. The player to player market is sorely lacking in features for organizing and searching for products to buy and sell.
 
-Sphinx
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43. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 19, 2010, 01:49 The Half Elf
 
You mean using Evasive Maneuvers and quickly and easily getting out of range of ships you warp in on?

And even then you aren't even encountering more then 2 ships except in the higher level Deep Space Encounters (and even then you can still do the EM escape easily).
 
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"I've never seen a feature like this before. It warms your ass. It's wonderful" -Walter Bishop
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42. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 18, 2010, 22:18 Snozzle
 
Before they even think of touching the death penalty, they better fix the "feature" where you get raped by ten ships almost every time you enter an enemy encounter.  
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41. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a "Meaningful" Death Penalty Feb 18, 2010, 21:26 Surf
 
Well the game came out in 97-99, I thought there were levels but mistaken apparently. Maybe it was just skills and Str/Dex/Int?

As for death, yes, you actually could die, be a ghost and lose all your items. That was very severe and apparently still severe when compared to say DAOC, Guild Wars, WOW and any other MMORPG that I know where when you die you dont lose ANY items.

So, quit harping on my level error and get to what I am stating that there should be a harsh penalty when you die in MMORPG's.

Oh and i am 100% against levels, glad that you reminded me that UO didn't have them, thus making that still one of the best MMORPG's of all time due to its pioneering idea's.
 
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40. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 18, 2010, 20:59 NKD
 
Surf wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 19:58:
Interesting, I didn't know so many of you got to play UO 6 months prior to release as I did and play it for the first year of release.

If you played UO so much, why is it you were talking about it having levels and a harsh death penalty? I played since Phase 2 beta and there were never levels or a harsh death penalty.
 
Avatar 43041
 
If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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39. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 18, 2010, 20:54 Ruffiana
 
The apologists for the game are always forgetting the main thing in gaming, which is gameplay. Star Trek Online is a repetitive, disconnected, combat focused bore-fest.

Why is it gamers have go so far away from understand what makes a game a game? I blame the new generation of gamers that grew up with 3D gaming.

You're overlooking that there is no singular definition for what makes a game, a game. No secret formula for "fun" or "good gameplay". Ultimately, everyone has very different opinions about what is fun, rewarding, challenging, addictive, compelling, etc.

It may be hard for you personally to understand, but for many people simply having something that's tedious, monotonous, and repetitive to do for months or years on end that lead to an arbitrary goal is a very rewarding and compelling experience. They see it is a tangible achievement, something that sets them apart from other people for having the patience to accomplish. These people would be put off playing an MMO that has very little long-term, grinding achievements to it. They would view it as too easy, too casual friendly, not hardcore enough. Any game is trading off one market of players for another market with every choice they make.

I don't like watching sports, but I'm not going to bemoan the whole sports broadcasting industry as being clueless about how to make entertaining television.
 
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38. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 18, 2010, 20:46 JohnnyRotten
 
Flatline wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 19:51:

My first thought for a "death penalty" was to delete your account, invalidate your CD key, and delete the game forever off your hard drive if you die.

Now that I would play!
 
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37. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 18, 2010, 19:58 Surf
 
Interesting, I didn't know so many of you got to play UO 6 months prior to release as I did and play it for the first year of release. You see, what you guys are failing to figure out, is that UO was the most successful MMORPG of it's time. Were there others before like AOL Neverwinter Nights? Yes! Was it successful, hardly but it was ungodly expensive which prohibited mass appeal. If you want to go nutso then the MUDD's were before all, but who cares, not many people played them.

I can't tell you how many times I had fought in UO and having to deal with all the unique bugs. What about that "Dart?" spell that was the first thing you casted to disable someones "Reflect" spell? That was removed eventually. How about crashing servers with the Chain Lightning spell? I played on the Pacific Servers and we used a T1 at EA prior to DSL being available.

I found plenty of times where people got killed while I was hiding and I would swoop in, go invisible, steal hundreds of reagents and gear, and warp out with a rune. Since I had accidentally became evil, I couldn't go to towns! We had to carry big time gear to out neutral and good character to shovel into the castle we owned.

It was a great game, I even still have a screen capture of the last day we played.

Wow succeeds because it is so easy and like a spreadsheet. People don't like risks in video games for many reasons. Hard core games (The most recent being Stalker and Arma 2) always seem to do poorly at retail because they are that, hard core. Play any console game and your hand is held almost the entire time (Bioshock 2 anyone?).

Saying that WOW is the best is like saying the movie Avatar is the best movie ever made because it uses a formulaic by the numbers "safe" approach that appeals to the masses. Whereas a movie like The Road or The Machinist challenges you the entire time and makes you uncomfortable.

To each their own but I like to think outside the box, I like reasonable risk otherwise the gains are calculated and repetitive.

 
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36. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 18, 2010, 19:51 Flatline
 
JohnnyRotten wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 19:24:
I completely agree. STO needs a meaningful death penalty. The sooner it dies, the better for all of us.

Well, that's more like a death reward, but I digress...

My first thought for a "death penalty" was to delete your account, invalidate your CD key, and delete the game forever off your hard drive if you die.
 
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35. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 18, 2010, 19:33 Uno
 
JohnnyRotten wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 19:24:
I completely agree. STO needs a meaningful death penalty. The sooner it dies, the better for all of us.

Well, that's more like a death reward, but I digress...


/drum roll
 
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34. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a "Meaningful" Death Penalty Feb 18, 2010, 19:24 JohnnyRotten
 
I completely agree. STO needs a meaningful death penalty. The sooner it dies, the better for all of us.

Well, that's more like a death reward, but I digress...
 
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33. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a "Meaningful" Death Penalty Feb 18, 2010, 19:16 Acleacius
 
Should have used his money to make a game instead of spending millions(?) to fly over billions of starving people, some genius.  
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.It works the same way in any country.
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32. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 18, 2010, 17:44 Creston
 
D_K_night wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 15:12:
NKD wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 14:16:
D_K_night wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 14:08:
If you truly were on the UO dev team, well sorry but your time in the sun has long set.

If he was on the UO dev team, you'd think he'd remember how the game mechanics worked.

Why ain't Richard Garriot coming back to do more Ultima? I bet you there are reasons for that eh?

He doesn't own the IP.

Garriot doesn't have to own the IP to work on Ultima. Origin(?) would take him back in a heartbeat. Or is Origin dead? I don't know anymore. Who owns Ultima at this point?

If you're gonna try to argue a point, it might help if you have at least SOME rudimentary knowledge of the thing you're attempting to argue.

Origin Systems has been dead for more than a decade. EA owns the Ultima property, and does absolutely nothing with it. Richard Garriot and EA parted at what could be considered "I'll fucking shoot your fucking ass if I ever see you again," terms, so the odds of Garriot ever working on another Ultima are beyond slim.

Creston
 
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31. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 18, 2010, 17:32 The Half Elf
 
The loose your ship thing wouldn't work with the game mechanics.

But I among many many others agree there HAS to be something. I am getting rather tired to idiots full impulsing into situations and getting blown up, only to do it over and over and OVER again.

I'm not sure what the result will be but there needs to be something.

Personally I'd like to see a Morale system. If you die you loose the full 'strength' of your abilities for yourself and your Bridge Officers. Drop it 10% effectiveness per death to a max of 50%

Second Option: If you die you temporarily loose one of your Bridge Officers for say 10-15 mins while they are in the Sick Bay being treated by a doctor. Until the officer returns to duty you cannot use their abilities.
 
Avatar 12670
 
"I've never seen a feature like this before. It warms your ass. It's wonderful" -Walter Bishop
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30. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a "Meaningful" Death Penalty Feb 18, 2010, 17:26 ASJD
 
The apologists for the game are always forgetting the main thing in gaming, which is gameplay. Star Trek Online is a repetitive, disconnected, combat focused bore-fest.

Why is it gamers have go so far away from understand what makes a game a game? I blame the new generation of gamers that grew up with 3D gaming.
 
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29. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 18, 2010, 17:06 Flatline
 
Ideas for "meaningful death" in STO?

I haven't played, but could think of a few things:

Ship-loss: If you lose your ship, You get put into a temporary command, which is essentially a class step down from your current ship (assuming they class ships the way Starfleet Battles did. For example, if you were in a heavy cruiser you'd get stepped down to a light cruiser.) At this point you either are on a timer (boring) or you have to go accomplish a mission to "distinguish" yourself while Starfleet either builds or reassigns a starship to your command. I don't like the idea of a simple stat nerf, but perhaps placing you in an equivalent ship with drastically different capabilities might be an option. That way, you play differently for a while, not challenged.

On-foot death: A little trickier. If things get really bad in the universe you can always beam out and go directly to a sick bay and have state-of-the-art medical treatment. Hell, Picard survived a knife through his *heart*. I don't like the stat-nerfing thing, it seems too simple. If I understand the game properly, you can upgrade your bridge crew and subordinates, correct? If that's the case, subordinate death should be permanent. You can recruit new crew, but if you get too many deaths in too short of a time, it becomes harder/more expensive to recruit anyone but the most green officers & crew. I have no solution for the actual PC being killed.

As far as effectively griefing in a public party, perhaps a page from the Napoleonic era is in order? Every captain gains a reputation, and that reputation gets around. It could be beneficial (a fighting captain who maintains a crack ship) or negative (doesn't play well with others, bad at supporting his squadron, is careless with ships, etc). I don't know if I'd tie this into a PvE mechanic, but it'd be interesting to publish to a group founder or the group at large for a pickup group.
 
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28. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 18, 2010, 15:59 Talisorn
 
Stanly Manly wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 11:01:
EDIT: To anyone who cares, I think STO is quite a good game, and I'm enjoying it. Sure, its not perfect, but the vast majority of players (IMHO) that are complaining about the game, are the ones who click past every dialogue box and just race to max level. The story in STO is pretty interesting, and if you stop thinking within the confines of WoW, you'll see the game is a good Star Trek game. You aren't some random adventurer, you are a Starfleet Officer, doing Starfleet type missions. Players just can't seem to grasp that. Oh well.
Agree 100%
 
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27. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 18, 2010, 15:47 Armengar
 
asherons call was a bitch with death penalties. Not much fun running round with 40% reduction to your skills with no kit (with your corpse timer running down to decay into a container for anyone to loot)  
Its not the cough that carries you off but the coffin they carry you off in.
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26. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 18, 2010, 15:40 Burrito of Peace
 
Midnight wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 15:25:
Bah, if people want to be punished for dying they should go and play EVE Online. Part of the appeal of STO for me is its forgiving nature - I don't need the stress and anxiety that comes with death penalties.

Agreed. I play STO and I truly enjoy it for these simple facts:

1) As a grown adult with a real life, I don't need to treat it like a second job.
2) It's very casual and if I don't play for a few days, I don't come back to find things have radically changed.
3) The respawn timer is fine as is. If I'm playing my science ship, being out of the fight for that length of time makes the people I am with weaker as a fleet.
4) Star Trek, as a universe, has always been about the experience of life and the story arc. Kirk didn't grind his way to Admiral but participating in 60 man raids. He did it by being an excellent captain and officer.

As someone previously has said, this isn't WoW and people who treat it as such are sorely disappointed when it doesn't turn out to be WoW in space.
 
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25. Re: Star Trek Online Needs a Feb 18, 2010, 15:27 NKD
 
D_K_night wrote on Feb 18, 2010, 15:12:
Garriot doesn't have to own the IP to work on Ultima. Origin(?) would take him back in a heartbeat. Or is Origin dead? I don't know anymore. Who owns Ultima at this point?

Origin is no more. EA owns the Ultima IP, and UO is run by Mythic.
 
Avatar 43041
 
If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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