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BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8

BioWare designer Christina Norman tweets a response to a request for word on whether we can ever expect KOTOR 3, a third installment in Knights of the Old Republic, the Star Wars RPG series. Her reply indicates they feel their upcoming MMORPG Star Wars The Old Republic is actually a sequel to the KOTOR games. Or five sequels to be more precise, as she says: "Kotor 3? Yes, it's called "The Old Republic" and it is KOTOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8!"

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36. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 18, 2010, 02:49 sunshine14344
 
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35. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 18, 2010, 02:24 Jerykk
 
Developers seem to be getting more comfortable with adding more and more complexity to games as time goes on.

I'm inclined to disagree. The only obvious trend I see is that every genre is being turned into action. Mass Effect 2, Resident Evil 5, Prince of Persia, Rainbow Six Vegas, Splinter Cell Conviction... it seems like every genre is getting dumbed down and more action-oriented.
 
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34. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 17, 2010, 20:36 Zadig
 
Where EVE fails as an RPG however is in a person coming into the game having an engaging experience unless they have friends waiting for them or are quickly absorbed into predefined roles/corporations. The griefing in the game is unreal. I've seen squads of player characters so powerful that they blow through security set up shop in the n00b zones and simply devastate beginning characters.

This isn't true. You can solo in the hundreds of high security systems without serious danger. The police there will destroy any lawbreakers quite quickly. New players who stay in the noob corps (and don't act like idiots!) are not likely to be attacked by other players.
 
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33. KOTOR mods Feb 17, 2010, 11:41 Mangrove
 
I was thinking of replaying KOTOR after I'm done with Mass Effect 2. Any good mods out for it? From my cursory glance on Google, it looks like it's just weapon packs, which I'm not too fussed on.  
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32. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 17, 2010, 09:45 NKD
 
ibm wrote on Feb 17, 2010, 03:43:
But this is a single player game (with a co-op light option), they only call it an "mmorpg" so they can charge $15 a month.

That's not really very accurate. By that reasoning WoW is a single-player game too. You can solo all the way to the level cap without issue.

TOR actually seems to have more player interaction than other MMOs, with the multiplayer dialogue system and what not. Plus they'll have all the typical MMO stuff like crafting, auction houses, PvP, raiding, etc. And they've said they are being very cautious with the instancing & phasing.

What do you feel is missing from the game that makes it single-player?
 
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If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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31. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 17, 2010, 08:29 VoodooV
 
Statements like the title of this article are not up to the developers to decide. They might have every intention of making a good MMO with a great story. But that judgement rests with the players, not with the developer.

 
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30. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 17, 2010, 04:56 Prez
 
The assumption that cross-platform games are going to suffer from "consolization" is an outdated one. Where it was safe to assume the PC version would be inferior at one point, that is no longer the case.

I think this, while there maybe a bit of time to go yet, is slowly and steadily becoming true. Fallout 3 and Bioshock ramped up the complexity for mainstream games from a purely console-centric perspective. Developers seem to be getting more comfortable with adding more and more complexity to games as time goes on. The average console user has been getting used to more sophistication in their games now, and it might just bring the situation full circle, so that they can "handle" the types of games we PC gamers have been feeding off of for well over 2 decades.

But this is a single player game (with a co-op light option), they only call it an "mmorpg" so they can charge $15 a month.

Would I pay 15 bucks a month to play KOTOR 3 through 8? I mean "actual" single player, story-driven KOTOR's? Oh yeah. But I just don't see it happening with TOR. MMORPG's are in my view inherently flawed games that make too many concessions to it's own fundamental deficiencies to ever be able to come close to matching single-player games for story, depth, gameplay, and immersion.
 
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29. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 17, 2010, 03:43 ibm
 
Prez wrote on Feb 16, 2010, 20:44:
"Kotor 3? Yes, it's called "The Old Republic" and it is KOTOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8!"

**SIGH** While it may end up a good MMO, I just don't see how it's going to be able to take the place of a real sequel to KOTOR. Even the best MMO game isn't a pimple on the ass of a great single player game like KOTOR for story and gameplay.

But this is a single player game (with a co-op light option), they only call it an "mmorpg" so they can charge $15 a month.
 
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28. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 17, 2010, 02:45 Flatline
 
Jerykk wrote on Feb 17, 2010, 01:54:
I don't really see how a story-driven RPG can work in an MMO environment. I mean, sure, your character might have his own story and some of your choices may affect this story but it doesn't affect the thousands of other players on the server. Their very presence is a constant reminder that nothing you do matters and the game world doesn't revolve around you.

To me, that's a complete contradiction of what RPGs are. For an MMO to truly be an RPG, it can't be shackled by a pre-designed story nor can by the arbitrary limitations meant to appease the more casual players. If someone wants to be a thief who steals from other players, let them. If someone wants to be a tyrant who rules through force, let him. EVE is the closest thing to a true MMORPG in this regard. Reading about the epic battles, rivalries and screwjobs is fascinating and only in a truly open game can such things occur.

I get what you're going at. Most cRPGs are little more than fancy adventure games with a combat system.

Player-generated content, or to be more specific, *character* generated content is going to really be where you achieve RPG status, and in that respect, yes, EVE manages to acquire it.

Where EVE fails as an RPG however is in a person coming into the game having an engaging experience unless they have friends waiting for them or are quickly absorbed into predefined roles/corporations. The griefing in the game is unreal. I've seen squads of player characters so powerful that they blow through security set up shop in the n00b zones and simply devastate beginning characters.

A roleplaying game thrives on it's DM. The storyteller. Some storytellers railroad their players to tell a story, while others allow an Elder Scrolls-style openess to their campaign. The best DMs in my experience have been the ones who give the illusion of utter freedom within the confines of the setting, yet tells a very focused story.

Sadly, you won't get that from character driven content. Some of it will be stellar, but most of it will fall into rather rigid preconceptions.

I still think that a character-driven content system would serve a setting like Shadowrun best. With that hands-off approach, allowing players to ascend to the head of corporations (or at least megacorp divisions), manipulate and play the stock market, generate runs, and create an entire sub-ecology within the culture of the setting, I think you could have a thriving, indefinitely sustained MMORPG.
 
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27. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 17, 2010, 01:54 Jerykk
 
I don't really see how a story-driven RPG can work in an MMO environment. I mean, sure, your character might have his own story and some of your choices may affect this story but it doesn't affect the thousands of other players on the server. Their very presence is a constant reminder that nothing you do matters and the game world doesn't revolve around you.

To me, that's a complete contradiction of what RPGs are. For an MMO to truly be an RPG, it can't be shackled by a pre-designed story nor can by the arbitrary limitations meant to appease the more casual players. If someone wants to be a thief who steals from other players, let them. If someone wants to be a tyrant who rules through force, let him. EVE is the closest thing to a true MMORPG in this regard. Reading about the epic battles, rivalries and screwjobs is fascinating and only in a truly open game can such things occur.
 
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26. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 17, 2010, 01:43 Flatline
 
NKD wrote on Feb 16, 2010, 23:15:
If you could point out a few of the superior aspects of the single player game, I'd be interested to hear your view.

One word: Metagaming.

I never saw KOTR spam me with this:

Public Message:
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Or

Channel Broadcast:

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Even on the RP servers in an MMO, people don't actually "roleplay". The last real roleplaying I did on an MMO was in Ultima Online.
 
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25. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 17, 2010, 01:37 Flatline
 
NKD wrote on Feb 16, 2010, 23:15:
It's easily the most promising MMO in development currently.

I agree. That being said, I'm not holding my breath.

The different classes in World of Warcraft each have their own "storyline" missions too.

What I want, and I think we're to the point where we can start doing this, is a randomized, branching, *character* storyline that's generated at character creation.

You know, I tell the game that I have siblings when I roll my bounty hunter, so one day as I'm merrily bounty-hunting my way through the galaxy, I get a message that my brother fell afoul of a Hutt crimelord and I have to go rescue him. The fixer who dug up the information (since I did a job for him earlier in my character's history and he owes me) also gives me a line on someone who's been burned by this same Hutt and is willing to go after him (giving me the ability to link up with another player who has a character story quest involving getting burned by this Hutt, so we can group together). I *could* let my brother rot, and not invoke the ire of the Hutt, but alienate my family (which in turn opens up other quest lines) or I could gang up with friends and other people to do an instanced raid, where everyone in the party shares a character motivation to go after this Hutt and kick some ass.

You don't need every quest to be part of the character's "life", but say a 10-15 quest chain of substantial quests would make *my* bounty hunter different from every other bounty hunter out there.

It'd take a LOT of quest writing, but christ, with dev cycles reaching 5 years or so that's a lot of time to hire a handful of real world DMs to create story lines to mix up and pull out of a bag.
 
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24. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 17, 2010, 00:42 Jerykk
 
The assumption that cross-platform games are going to suffer from "consolization" is an outdated one. Where it was safe to assume the PC version would be inferior at one point, that is no longer the case. The first 2 games were both Xbox games as well, and yet the PC versions were fantastic (well, not sure I would call the second, unfinished game fantastic, but you get the idea).

KOTOR was the exception to the rule. It was the last console-centric RPG that felt like a PC game. When you look at everything else (Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3), it's pretty obvious that these games suffered from being designed for the console audience.
 
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23. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 17, 2010, 00:31 moppy
 
Did you read the fact that this was from a woman not a man?  
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22. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 17, 2010, 00:23 Umbragen
 
If anything, this bodes well for TOR, if they do indeed have half a dozen full games worth of storyline. I'm not sure why everyone is so hot for another KoTOR anyway, it's one of the most overrated games around. Anyone that thinks the re-rehashed story, empty little zones and cookie cutter characters is some of Bioware's best work, well, they've never played Baldur's Gate 2. (Except HK-47, he's the one high point in the game.) In lean times, a solid but uninspired game like KoTOR can come away as the 'Game of the Year'. But it's more a testament to how bad the general landscape is rather than a celebration of Bioware's brilliance. I'm about as interested in another KoTOR as I am another Jade Empire.  
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21. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 16, 2010, 23:15 NKD
 
Riker wrote on Feb 16, 2010, 23:04:
TOR looks nothing at all like the original KOTORs. I'm glad that the quest-givers will be fully voiced, but that's not exactly my primary concern about the game. And no, I won't hold it against you for being so easily impressed by mediocrity.

What differences bug you, exactly? The gameplay video I've seen looks rather impressive, compared to the original KOTOR.

The dialogue setup is superior. Has the same essential mechanics such as Dark & Light alignment shifts, Persuasion, and so on. Plus it is fully voiced and there will be a multiplayer dialogue function that allows players in groups to all take part in them.

The combat is much improved, obviously. The combat wasn't exactly one of KOTOR's strong points. (Let's queue up Master Flurry over and over until we win.) Plus, visually speaking, the combat animations are far and away better.

It has deeper RPG elements than KOTOR, in terms of stats, equipment, and the number of available abilities, from what we've seen. The class choices are far more differentiated as well.

Story is obviously a big focus as well. Each character class has a unique storyline with no shared or generic content. They've said they intend for each class's story to be the equivalent of a full singleplayer RPG's story. I don't know if that will be the case, but it is their stated goal.

In fact I am hard pressed to find anything wrong with the game compared to KOTOR except for the fact that it's an MMO and some folks just don't enjoy MMOs. It's easily the most promising MMO in development currently.

If you could point out a few of the superior aspects of the single player game, I'd be interested to hear your view.
 
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20. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 16, 2010, 23:04 Riker
 
NKD wrote on Feb 16, 2010, 20:11:
People would have bitched about that too. "Waaah, why is KOTOR 3 so consolized. The first game was better!" At least The Old Republic is PC exclusive.
The assumption that cross-platform games are going to suffer from "consolization" is an outdated one. Where it was safe to assume the PC version would be inferior at one point, that is no longer the case. The first 2 games were both Xbox games as well, and yet the PC versions were fantastic (well, not sure I would call the second, unfinished game fantastic, but you get the idea).

Eldaron Imotholin wrote on Feb 16, 2010, 21:29:
I loved KOTOR 1 and 2 just as much as you guys and while I was skeptical about The Old Republic at first, after seeing the newer gameplay walkthroughs I'm actually impressed. It looks just like the KOTOR games and they even promise that every NPC/questgiver is fully voiced.
TOR looks nothing at all like the original KOTORs. I'm glad that the quest-givers will be fully voiced, but that's not exactly my primary concern about the game. And no, I won't hold it against you for being so easily impressed by mediocrity.
 
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19. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 16, 2010, 22:55 Creston
 
Eh. :-shrug-:

After more than five years, it seemed highly unlikely we'd ever get another single player KOTOR.

I'm sure that the Origin stories they're doing in KOR will look and feel pretty much like a KOTOR, but once you're done with those, it'll likely just degenerate into typical MMO grindfest. Every MMO players loves grindfests, so why buck the trend?

I'll probably get KOR and play it for a month or so.

Creston
 
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18. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 16, 2010, 21:37 nin
 
I was about to say the same, this quote is very very old...

Yeah, they've said that more than a few times now.

 
http://www.nin.com/pub/tension/
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17. Re: BioWare: The Old Republic is KOTOR 3-8 Feb 16, 2010, 21:31 NiteX
 
Awesome move, I love all the little whiners this brings about. It's fun to tell them to shove it and deal with it.  
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