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Far Cry 3 Confirmed

Computer and Video Games quotes Ubisoft writer Kevin Shortt speaking with Official PlayStation Magazine saying Far Cry 3 looks "pretty exciting," confirming development of a third installment in this first-person shooter series. "No I'm not," the writer replied when asked if he was working on Far Cry 3 during a junket for Avatar. "But I know the team are and what I've seen looks pretty exciting."

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52. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Dec 1, 2009, 09:53 Verno
 
You're arguing that style (how features are presented) is more important than substance (the presence of features themselves) and I couldn't disagree more.

Again no, I'm not. I'm arguing that having the feature isn't enough because they inherently aren't realistic nor immersive. I'd rather have a game built around having lean or prone as opposed to just having them tossed in after the fact to appease people like you. And yes, in terms of gameplay there is a huge difference between those two things. Implementation means a lot more than simple presence of features and implementation affects immersion significantly. I couldn't spell it out any clearer unless you want some crayon doodles.
 
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51. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 28, 2009, 19:47 Jerykk
 
I personally feel that Far Cry 2 would have benefited more from prone than lean.

I think it would have greatly benefit from both.

I think we simply have different criteria as to what makes an immersive game.

Seems like it.

Not to refute it but I speak to developers with my wallet.

As do I by buying the games I like.

It felt fresh, from the movement, to the combat, to the environment, to the way you had to heal yourself. It was about how it all worked together, rather than any one feature.

I thought the combat was solid and the ambience was good but aside from that, nothing really stood out to me as pushing the genre forward. They had a lot of great ideas but those ideas either didn't make it into the game or were executed poorly. Hopefully Far Cry 3 can live up to its potential.
 
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50. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 28, 2009, 07:18 theyarecomingforyou
 
Take Crysis, for example. Whenever you pick up a weapon or item, you see your hands and arms actually picking it up. Does this add to the immersion? Not really. It's purely superficial and actually rather inefficient. I'd rather just point my reticule at an item and have it instantly be added to my inventory, rather than having to watch an animation of my character picking it up.
I don't think we're going to agree on this matter because I feel the opposite. Personally I'd like to see lean implemented in games, along with other forms of free movement, but the current implementation holds no appeal to me. It needs to be more fluid, more integral to the gameplay - the current two button, fixed degree lean system just takes up two useful buttons and doesn't do much. I personally feel that Far Cry 2 would have benefited more from prone than lean.

Conversely, the inability to pick up corpses in Crysis was greatly detrimental to the game's immersion
I think we simply have different criteria as to what makes an immersive game.

I love it when people bring up the piracy card in completely unrelated arguments as if it somehow refutes anything I've said.
Not to refute it but I speak to developers with my wallet.

What exactly did it do?
It felt fresh, from the movement, to the combat, to the environment, to the way you had to heal yourself. It was about how it all worked together, rather than any one feature. Everything was done slightly differently to other games, from the menu system to the setting to the gameplay. It's like with Clear Sky where you're walking along and you don't notice the weather changing from a blue sky to thunder and lightning - it really makes the game world feel alive.
 
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49. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 28, 2009, 01:23 Jerykk
 
You're talking about immersion and yet mention hitboxes and AI in the same sentence.

Yes. We must have different definitions of immersion. To me, immersion is directly tied into gameplay. It boils down to this: am I able to do what I expect to do? If I'm playing a realistic shooter, I expect to be able to do the things I could do in real-life: jump, crouch, lean, go prone, etc. The representation of these actions doesn't have to be completely realistic. The actions just need to be present. Your argument seems to be that unless leaning is completely realistic, there's no reason to have it in the game. To me, having any implementation of lean is better than having none.

To me the embodiment of the player in the character and the environment is much more important than a button that tilts the screen slightly.

Except your definition of embodiment seems limited to things like seeing your character's limbs. That's pretty superficial. I'm much more interested in letting the player do what they want to do in the game world. Satisfying player's expectations is the most important part of immersion and the best way to do that is by letting them do more things that they would do in reality. Gameplay > presentation.

Take Crysis, for example. Whenever you pick up a weapon or item, you see your hands and arms actually picking it up. Does this add to the immersion? Not really. It's purely superficial and actually rather inefficient. I'd rather just point my reticule at an item and have it instantly be added to my inventory, rather than having to watch an animation of my character picking it up. I'll take DX's implementation over Crysis' any day. Using Crysis as an example again, you can't pick up dead bodies. In Deus Ex, you can but it's hardly realistic. However, the simple ability to pick up dead bodies adds greatly to the game's immersion regardless of presentation. Conversely, the inability to pick up corpses in Crysis was greatly detrimental to the game's immersion, just like the inability to lean is greatly detrimental to any realistic/pseudo-realistic shooter.

But hey, what does my opinion matter? I mean, I only buy games - my opinion obviously doesn't matter as much as someone that pirates them on principle.

I love it when people bring up the piracy card in completely unrelated arguments as if it somehow refutes anything I've said. I thought you were better than that.

Far Cry 2 was let down by many of the gameplay mechanics and design decisions but it still did more for the genre than any other game I can recall in recent years.

What exactly did it do? It wasn't the first FPS to take place in an open environment nor was it the first to let you approach scenarios in multiple ways. It wasn't even the first shooter to have dynamic fire. It wasn't the first shooter to show your limbs either.
 
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48. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 28, 2009, 00:26 theyarecomingforyou
 
Leaning, on the other hand, does. It reduces exposure of your hitbox and makes it less likely that the AI will see.
You're talking about immersion and yet mention hitboxes and AI in the same sentence. So basically you're saying that immersion to you is about how the engine itself operates and not about the game experience, so obviously we're going to disagree. And as I've said before, you're just talking about the way that AI is programmed - it can be programmed to react the same way without leaning by determining visible area.

How is that "a fact"? Jumping, crouching and prone implementations in videogames are usually terrible and not realistic in the slightest. Immersion has more to do with the environment and implementation of features than the presence of features themselves.
Exactly. To me the embodiment of the player in the character and the environment is much more important than a button that tilts the screen slightly. But hey, what does my opinion matter? I mean, I only buy games - my opinion obviously doesn't matter as much as someone that pirates them on principle.

Far Cry 2 was let down by many of the gameplay mechanics and design decisions but it still did more for the genre than any other game I can recall in recent years. If Far Cry 3 can improve upon the formula then I'll definitely be getting it.
 
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47. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 27, 2009, 22:41 Jerykk
 
Immersion has more to do with the environment and implementation of features than the presence of features themselves.

Disagreed. Immersion has to do with choice more than the realistic depiction of that choice. Immersion is increased when you can do what you want to do in any given situation. For example, if a shooter doesn't let you jump over a waist-high fence, that breaks immersion. If a shooter doesn't let you crouch under an obstacle to get past it, that breaks immersion. Similarly, if a shooter doesn't let me lean around cover, that breaks immersion. The game might still be immersive but that will be in spite of the lack of lean, crouching, jumping or going prone.

Deus Ex is a perfect example of how having a feature is far more important than the realism of that feature. In DX, you could pick up various objects of unlikely dimensions and weight, stack them on top of each other in physics-defying displays and then jump up onto them in order to reach previously inaccessible areas. This process wasn't realistic by any means but the simple ability to pick up and drop objects greatly added to the game's immersion.

You're arguing that style (how features are presented) is more important than substance (the presence of features themselves) and I couldn't disagree more.
 
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46. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 27, 2009, 08:55 Verno
 
I said that lean makes realistic/pseudorealistic games more immersive and that's a fact. Just like being able to jump, crouch and go prone makes shooters more immersive.

How is that "a fact"? Jumping, crouching and prone implementations in videogames are usually terrible and not realistic in the slightest. Immersion has more to do with the environment and implementation of features than the presence of features themselves.
 
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45. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 27, 2009, 07:56 Jerykk
 
There's a whole shit-tonne of stuff you can do in real life that you can't do in a computer game but that doesn't mean it isn't immersive.

I guess it's a good thing I never said that. I said that lean makes realistic/pseudorealistic games more immersive and that's a fact. Just like being able to jump, crouch and go prone makes shooters more immersive.

I mean, free head movement for one - the way the viewpoint is fixed on where you're aiming. Surely that's more important than lean? And yet that's not a common feature (ArmAII has it but that's about it).

It's not a common feature because it's very difficult to implement. In the case of ArmA, it requires third-party hardware (TrackIR). Lean, on the other hand, only requires two keys.

You were talking about immersion earlier and yet you don't have a problem with the degree of lean always being exactly the same?

I think the lack of lean is a much greater issue than having variable degrees of lean. Your argument seems to be that lean is completely worthless unless you have variable control over it. By that logic, you could argue that jumping or crouching is worthless unless you can control the height or that walking is useless unless you can control the speed. Having finite control over a function is not always necessary. Simply having that function is usually enough.

Far Cry 2 had HUGE immersion because of the embodiment of the player in the character and yet you're moaning about lean, which has a much lesser impact upon immersion.

Sorry, I disagree entirely. I don't think seeing my character's limbs adds a great deal to immersion and it doesn't really have any practical benefit. Leaning, on the other hand, does. It reduces exposure of your hitbox and makes it less likely that the AI will see. It also lets you make more effective use of cover.

I think that Far Cry 2 was one of the most progressive games in recent history.

I think the game had some progressive ideas but the execution was a complete failure.
 
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44. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 26, 2009, 12:45 theyarecomingforyou
 
Imagine if people couldn't lean in real-life. Instead of a soldier leaning around a corner, he'd have to actually step out of cover and expose half his body. Ridiculous? Indeed.
The only thing that's ridiculous is you comparing the work of a solider to that of a video game. There's a whole shit-tonne of stuff you can do in real life that you can't do in a computer game but that doesn't mean it isn't immersive. I mean, free head movement for one - the way the viewpoint is fixed on where you're aiming. Surely that's more important than lean? And yet that's not a common feature (ArmAII has it but that's about it).

I don't really see how finite control over how much you lean is really necessary.
You were talking about immersion earlier and yet you don't have a problem with the degree of lean always being exactly the same? "Here I am standing, oh wait now I'm leaning at 45degrees". Far Cry 2 had HUGE immersion because of the embodiment of the player in the character and yet you're moaning about lean, which has a much lesser impact upon immersion. For all it's problems I think that Far Cry 2 was one of the most progressive games in recent history. If they work on addressing the main issues in the sequel then the game could be truly special.
 
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43. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 25, 2009, 15:22 dryden555
 
FC2 was one half of a good game. nice engine though.  
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42. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 25, 2009, 12:38 Jerykk
 
It does nothing for immersion, at least not with any of the current implementations.

Maybe for you. It makes games far more immersive for me. If I'm playing a pseudo-realistic shooter, I'm going to use cover and try to expose as little of myself as possible to enemy fire. Leaning lets me do this. When I couldn't lean in FC2, I was extremely annoyed. Imagine if people couldn't lean in real-life. Instead of a soldier leaning around a corner, he'd have to actually step out of cover and expose half his body. Ridiculous? Indeed. That's how I feel when realistic/pseudo-realistic shooters don't have lean.

Now if you had full control over the degree of lean - for instance, holding down the right button and using the mouse to control how far you want to lean in either direction - and it was fully integrated into the gameplay I might think differently.

I don't really see how finite control over how much you lean is really necessary. You can still strafe while leaning to increase or reduce your exposure. Finite control over leaning is like having finite control over exactly how fast you move. A nice feature but fairly redundant in most games when you can walk and run. As for integration, I'm not sure how much more integrated you expect it to be. If a game has lean, I use it heavily. If there's a corner, I lean around it. That's pretty integrated to me.

I think the basic argument of all the anti-leaners can basically be summed up as "I don't care about it so it's silly and useless!" A lot of people feel the same way about dedicated servers, antialiasing, 60 FPS, etc. That doesn't mean everybody feels the same way.
 
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41. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 25, 2009, 12:03 Wowbagger_TIP
 
Using "This" is cliché and redundant, where as quoting with no response is better.
Quoting with no response is annoying to me. It's like you were going to respond to something but forgot to write anything yourself. Using "this" is just saying you agree with what you quoted. I find it to be a convenient shorthand.

oh and just to have something on topic: FC2 sucks!!
 
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40. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 25, 2009, 11:21 bcanceldirt
 
Definitely on the 'loved FC2' bandwagon. I still think it's one of the best looking games out there - I drove into many a tree while admiring a sunset in the distance. Give me some decent vehicle combat, the chance to effectively be stealthy, and rethink the checkpoint issues. I'll be happy. Oh, and lions. I want to be able to be eaten by lions.  
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39. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 25, 2009, 10:32 Creston
 
I loved FC2. If they do away with the infinite, instantaneous spawns (and simply go to a time-delayed spawning method like, say, once ever 48 hours) and make the cars that aimlessly drive around mean something (perhaps a convoy that resupplies the checkpoints?) it'd be one of the most awesome shooters ever made.

Definitely getting FC3.

Creston
 
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38. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 25, 2009, 10:26 Verno
 
It's not so much that Far Cry 2 was a terrible game, it's not. It had a good core to it but the flaws were especially glaring given the annoyance they present to the player. The big deal is that Far Cry 2 just isn't Far Cry. Far Cry 1 felt like a totally different universe compared to the sequel and the gameplay elements were a lot different.

Far Cry 2 would have been better off as just an original IP but of course they wanted to do something useful with the name.
 
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37. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 25, 2009, 10:15 JayDeath
 
Yeah, FC2 was kinda crappy. It felt very clunky and the repawning enemies was annoying. I still play Far Cry to this day. Let's hope the greatness of the 1st one can be captured in the third.  
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36. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 25, 2009, 10:11 Eldaron Imotholin
 
Yeah that super AI that can hit you while sitting in 6 foot grass was awesome. I loved the respawning checkpoints too :P

I had no problems with the respawning checkpoints. If you play while experiencing the feeling of being in a hurry, you will see them as a pain in the ass. I enjoyed the action so much that I didn't care one bit.

As for the grass stuff.. I approached every battle head-on, covering behind objects etc as you pull a bullet out of your arm to them shoot a syringe up your guts right before the enemies flanked you was simply adrenaline pumping.

Really, you can try your best.. but I loved that game to the core of it.

Oh well atleast you and I agree on Risen ^^
 
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35. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 25, 2009, 09:25 Verno
 
Yeah that super AI that can hit you while sitting in 6 foot grass was awesome. I loved the respawning checkpoints too  
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34. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 25, 2009, 09:20 Eldaron Imotholin
 
I truely have the impression I'm one of the few people that totally enjoyed Far Cry 2 in its whole. There was nothing I didn't like. I loved it extremely much. The driving, the killing.. it was great.

Therefore, I'm overjoyed by this news! Far Cry ftw!!!
 
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33. Re: Far Cry 3 Confirmed Nov 25, 2009, 09:09 necrosis
 
Now if you had full control over the degree of lean - for instance, holding down the right button and using the mouse to control how far you want to lean in either direction - and it was fully integrated into the gameplay I might think differently.
Rainbow 6: Raven Shield. The last real Rainbow 6 game. To bad it never got *nix deti servers or a true SDK.

This comment was edited on Nov 25, 2009, 09:11.
 
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