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Borderlands Midnight Madness & Trailers

Gearbox announces 1300 GameStop locations will be open at midnight tonight/tomorrow to sell the console editions of Borderlands as soon as they go on sale. They've already announced locations in the Dallas/Fort Worth where Gearbox employees will be in attendance, and this forum post is where you can find other stores where they are burning some midnight oil to serve your immediate gratification needs. In other Borderlands news, Gametrailers now offers a bunch of new media from the role-playing shooter: The Opening Cinematic and some gameplay clips: Skagzilla, Co-Op Shootout, Headstone Mine, Lost Cave, and Windmill Camp.

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56. Re: Borderlands @ Midnight Oct 23, 2009, 08:49 Verno
 
Risen uses TAGEs I think. Seemed like people were having a lot of trouble getting that to work. I seem to remember quite a few others in the last couple years as well. Two Worlds used it I think, X3, and Anno 1404 IIRC. I think there are more as well, but I can't remember right now. Not sure where to find info on it either.

Two of those games are old and the other 2 were cracked on release day. If I were to compare a list of retail games released on the PC and go look for torrents I suspect I wouldn't have any trouble finding a single game on the list, except due to age perhaps. I certainly wouldn't have any trouble getting them running either.

If you want to do those things, the mod chips let you turn them off essentially so that it reverts to the normal mode of operation. Just flip a switch and you're good to go online.

What modchips? There's a single proof of concept modchip for the 360 and it doesn't support dual banked firmware. It also just exploits the existing dvd reader firmware vulnerabilities and it only works with a single SKU when there are over 5 different makers of the 360 dvd drives. That's not how 360 modding is done, that's how Xbox1 modding was done. 99.9% of 360 mods use flashed firmware on the dvd drive and there are no drives with dual firmware.

The PC is the easier platform to pirate for. Less education, immediate access and support plus it's an open platform itself. The 360 is much more difficult - it requires extra hardware, more education and involves risk to both the console itself plus Xbox Live.

The only qualitative statement you can make in your favor correctly is that if the user has the hardware required, his system is modded and so on then at that point they are equal. The trouble is that people generally don't do this.

By the way since you brought it up, PC pirates generally get to play on cracked servers if they so choose anyways. It's true Xbox pirates can play their games on multiplayer for free however playing on a cracked PC server does not risk you losing access to your DLC, netflix, demos, TV episodes, movies or whatever else you've done with your live account. If you do absolutely nothing with Live then I'd start to question why to even own an Xbox in the first place but that's a different argument for a different thread.
 
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55. Re: Borderlands @ Midnight Oct 22, 2009, 13:30 Wowbagger_TIP
 
Not really these days. Most of the time running a separate loader file or just updating Daemon-Tools/Virtual CloneDrive is all you need. Maybe 2 years ago you would've had a point. I can think of two Tages games that came out at all in the past two years, both cracked btw.
Risen uses TAGEs I think. Seemed like people were having a lot of trouble getting that to work. I seem to remember quite a few others in the last couple years as well. Two Worlds used it I think, X3, and Anno 1404 IIRC. I think there are more as well, but I can't remember right now. Not sure where to find info on it either.


Seeing as Live controls everything from netflix streaming to the DLC or Arcade games you grabbed to demos I'd say you're 100% incorrect with this assumption. There's something on Live for everyone whether you are a silver or gold user you will generally be missing out if you are banned and that's why so much effort has gone into masking rips as retail discs in "the scene".
If you want to do those things, the mod chips let you turn them off essentially so that it reverts to the normal mode of operation. Just flip a switch and you're good to go online.

PC pirates generally only get access to the single-player portions of games anyway, unless cracked servers exist and they know how to find them, and there are enough of them that they can find one that works decently. So this ends up being something of a wash. Can't really do multiplayer on either platform.
 
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54. Re: Borderlands @ Midnight Oct 22, 2009, 09:18 Verno
 
PC piracy can be easy or difficult depending on the game. Trying to get a Starforce game working back in the day was tricky business and getting uncracked games to work today is still tricky business, requiring virtual EIDE drives and constantly updated apps that bypass Securom or TAGEs and all that fun stuff.

Not really these days. Most of the time running a separate loader file or just updating Daemon-Tools/Virtual CloneDrive is all you need. Maybe 2 years ago you would've had a point. I can think of two Tages games that came out at all in the past two years, both cracked btw.

Console piracy is harder at first. Specifically, the modding of your console. After that, playing pirated games is easy.

Sticking a disc in the drive is about as easy as launching an exe but overall I'd agree that once it's all complete and setup, you basically just need to keep an eye on ABGX and don't download P2P rips. Keep in mind that burning 360 games usually requires a DVD+R DL burner and specific media(usually Verbatims depending on the quality of the batch) otherwise you will burn many a coaster due to how picky the 360 drives are. So that's modding your system, getting the proper burner(most OEM burners are not DL) and spending some cash on DL discs of decent quality. Or just copying a crack and launching a game, maybe at worst discovering you haven't updated DT in 2 years.

Now, if you're a technically adept pirate who doesn't care about Live or online play (I think most pirates fit into this category), those things aren't much of an issue.

Seeing as Live controls everything from netflix streaming to the DLC or Arcade games you grabbed to demos I'd say you're 100% incorrect with this assumption. There's something on Live for everyone whether you are a silver or gold user you will generally be missing out if you are banned and that's why so much effort has gone into masking rips as retail discs in "the scene".

This comment was edited on Oct 22, 2009, 09:19.
 
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53. Re: Borderlands @ Midnight Oct 22, 2009, 02:29 Jerykk
 
PC piracy can be easy or difficult depending on the game. Trying to get a Starforce game working back in the day was tricky business and getting uncracked games to work today is still tricky business, requiring virtual EIDE drives and constantly updated apps that bypass Securom or TAGEs and all that fun stuff.

Console piracy is harder at first. Specifically, the modding of your console. After that, playing pirated games is easy.

Which is riskier? Console piracy for sure. Not only do you void your warranty (and that's a big problem with 360s), you also risk getting banned from Live. Now, if you're a technically adept pirate who doesn't care about Live or online play (I think most pirates fit into this category), those things aren't much of an issue.

On another note, I don't find Borderlands appealing at all. Stupid AI, uninspired level design, generic missions and a focus on quantity over quality does not make for a good game.
 
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52. Re: Borderlands @ Midnight Oct 21, 2009, 12:24 Verno
 
There are step by step videos that show exactly how to do it. What screws to remove, how to attach the modchip, and how to close it all back up. Takes like 10 minutes, and 3/4 of that time is just dealing with the screws. It's not hard at all.

I'm sure there are step by step instructions to fix most appliances and entertainment devices that people will also never ever engage in. Most people do not possess the will nor knowledge to do it, even with step by step video tutorials. If they did the console industry would be in a state of absolute upheaval because you can play all of those pirated games online for free if you do manage to get it done. People do not want to modify their dvd player, their console, their radio or their whatever. To the vast majority of console consumers, the Xbox360 is a magical game box of mystery.

Console games are more expensive and released more frequently than PC games (multiplat + exclusives). If anyone has an interest in saving money with piracy, it would be console users, they get hit pretty hard. If it were anywhere near as easy as you say for the average user, they'd be doing it already. The Nintendo DS is a perfect example of that. It has a huge installed base of legitimate customers and a large amount of pirates as well due to the ease of "modifying" it (flashcart).

You can continue pressing this point all that you want but the bottom line is that as soon as hardware is involved, people shy away. I wish it was different, I really do. I think console users eat a lot of shit from publishers. Piracy if nothing else is at least a good threat to hang over their head. Unfortunately it will continue being an incredibly niche activity until someone comes up with a software mod and nothing you say will change that.
 
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51. Re: Borderlands @ Midnight Oct 21, 2009, 11:30 Wowbagger_TIP
 
Go look at an Xbox modification doc sometime and let me know if your neighbors son could do it. 9 times out of 10 the answer will be no.
There are step by step videos that show exactly how to do it. What screws to remove, how to attach the modchip, and how to close it all back up. Takes like 10 minutes, and 3/4 of that time is just dealing with the screws. It's not hard at all.

The difference between hardware mods and software cracks is that with hardware, at least everyone has the same thing. Getting software to work for everyone is a pain in the ass. I bet a lot of those pirates that come in complaining that it doesn't work for them end up buying the game. Frustration can be a powerful motivator.

This comment was edited on Oct 21, 2009, 11:30.
 
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50. Re: Borderlands @ Midnight Oct 21, 2009, 08:46 Verno
 
Yeah, and those downloads come with step-by-step instructions. The questions come anyway. Hardware scares people. Software just frustrates them.

Go look at an Xbox modification doc sometime and let me know if your neighbors son could do it. 9 times out of 10 the answer will be no. That same person probably has been stealing music and movies for years, it's not a huge adjustment to download games. Games aren't even rarred anymore on those torrent sites most of the time. It's pretty much burn, copy file and install. People are also used to stealing software for academics which doesn't help the situation.

Once an Xbox is modified it's a simple process to copy a game but if you care about online play at all then it's an annoying process of verifying retail rips and fixing the discs to avoid Microsoft's disc check routines. The key words there being "once modified" which is the stopgap that they rely on.

The best argument you can make is that they can have someone else do it for them really. Even that's iffy, I don't know too many people who want the local college kid with an ad on craigslist tooling around in their Xbox. It's a niche thing, honestly I hope it does get bigger if only to make sure that these closed platforms are kept in check but that's just not true right now.

This comment was edited on Oct 21, 2009, 08:57.
 
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49. Re: Borderlands @ Midnight Oct 20, 2009, 23:29 The PC Warrior
 
You can keep trying to explain it away but people are used to software, they will overcome or have things explained to them. The same cannot be said for doing something with your hands. Your own example defeats itself, people posting and receiving help from others. Even with youtube video tutorials a lot of people cannot modify their Xbox for a lot of reasons. Thats why there are a lot more PC pirates than console pirates. It doesnt mean something negative about our market except that companies cant dick their users around in the same way they do with consoles.  
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48. Re: Borderlands @ Midnight Oct 20, 2009, 22:52 Wowbagger_TIP
 
They have the ability to post on a forum or read a text file with step by step instructions. Face it he's right. Hardware scares people, software doesnt.
Yeah, and those downloads come with step-by-step instructions. The questions come anyway. Hardware scares people. Software just frustrates them.
 
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47. Re: Borderlands @ Midnight Oct 20, 2009, 22:42 The PC Warrior
 
They have the ability to post on a forum or read a text file with step by step instructions. Face it he's right. Hardware scares people, software doesnt.  
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46. Re: Borderlands Midnight Madness & Trailers Oct 20, 2009, 17:38 Wowbagger_TIP
 
Reading through comments on some torrent sites, it doesn't seem like a lot of people have the technical capability to install cracked versions of games. They do all kinds of dumb things like trying to update the game or connect to multiplayer servers. They can't find the cracks, can't figure out how to mount an image, or don't have the right software or version of the mounting utils. They come back saying that the crack screwed up their system. The crack doesn't work or the cracked game is bugged (sometimes a valid complaint). The list goes on.... Maybe not the same fear-factor you get from a hardware mod, but it's apparently not as easy as the more technically inclined users seem to believe.

This comment was edited on Oct 20, 2009, 17:40.
 
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45. Re: Borderlands Midnight Madness & Trailers Oct 20, 2009, 13:37 Verno
 
While I don't think that the piracy situation is nearly as prevalent on consoles, it's really not that hard to get a modded console. A couple of guys I work with have modded 360s. One guy bought his pre-modded, and the other got a friend to do it for him. He just had to pay for the mod kit. I haven't modded mine, but that's mostly because I hardly play it except to play XBL Arcade games with my wife. I can count the games I own for it on one hand and that's after over 2 years, and a couple of those came with the system.

Not sure what your point here is. We already know it's possible. Possible != prevalent. The mere potential of being forced to open your Xbox alone ensures the vast majority of the market will never get it done. It's taboo and people have unwarranted fears about it. Playing with software to download a game is one thing. Playing with hardware you spent money on is quite another. The general consumer doesn't have the stomach nor expertise for it.

Something like a Nintendo DS is different. People are used to using SD cards in cameras, phones and so on. Most use a USB card reader, another simple thing most people will grasp. You plug an SD card into an adapter that looks like a regular game cart and plug it into your DS. It's easy enough for a layman to potentially do it.

Hell the original Xbox was probably more modded than the 360 is. At least there you had softmods for an "easy" install and homebrew capability.

When people say "not nearly as prevalent", I think they really mean "not even anywhere approaching".

This comment was edited on Oct 20, 2009, 13:41.
 
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44. Re: Borderlands Midnight Madness & Trailers Oct 20, 2009, 12:34 Beamer
 
A basic setup of the passionate developers trying to create a nice game for people to play and the execs trying to sell that game for as much as they can.

Yeah, and I keep trying to say that this is a complete and total fiction.
Yeah, every company has a few "suits" that don't get it. These suits are outweighed by developers that think it's a good idea.

Marketing always gets blamed. You know who ends up doing the most hands-on marketing for any game? Gamers. You know who ends up dealing with the shitstorm that comes up when something doesn't go over well? Marketing.
 
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43. Re: Borderlands Midnight Madness & Trailers Oct 20, 2009, 12:25 Wowbagger_TIP
 
Someone had a retarded argument about wanting to play singleplayer games only and blah blah blah awhile back. The reality is that you're right, most people don't want a console or gamertag ban and will never risk this. It's just FUD people spread around to make the piracy situation on the PC seem less of a shitstorm than it probably is. I notice it's only ever brought up when a comparison is made.
While I don't think that the piracy situation is nearly as prevalent on consoles, it's really not that hard to get a modded console. A couple of guys I work with have modded 360s. One guy bought his pre-modded, and the other got a friend to do it for him. He just had to pay for the mod kit. I haven't modded mine, but that's mostly because I hardly play it except to play XBL Arcade games with my wife. I can count the games I own for it on one hand and that's after over 2 years, and a couple of those came with the system.
 
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42. Re: Borderlands Midnight Madness & Trailers Oct 20, 2009, 12:00 StingingVelvet
 
Steamworks is a variety of tools. Dawn of War II uses Steamworks, yet it uses GFW Live for private and public games, friends lists, etc. in the exact same way that Borderlands will instead utilize Gamespy.

Steamworks =/= full Steam server list integration. Steamworks can mean anything from just Steam activation, to VAC support, to the server browser, to matchmaking, or any combination thereof.

Exactly.

It was the DLC that made me think it was a Steam game. They are not using GFWL, so it's either Steam or some horrible 2K web store for the DLC, so honestly I was hoping for Steam.
 
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41. Re: Borderlands Midnight Madness & Trailers Oct 20, 2009, 09:35 briktal
 
I love the phantom "suits" people whine about more and more frequently, and I love that those "suits" came together for both Microsoft and Sony this time around.

It's a pretty simple concept, the "suits" are the people who care more about the bottom line (especially short term) than the consumers. People assume that (most) developers care more about the consumers and/or have little to no say in these kinds of issues anyway. A basic setup of the passionate developers trying to create a nice game for people to play and the execs trying to sell that game for as much as they can.
 
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40. Re: Borderlands Midnight Madness & Trailers Oct 20, 2009, 09:20 ^mortis^
 
More like Games for Windows Live for any DLC, i'm sure...just like Lost & the Dead for GTA4...i mean, WHOOPS...ok, like all the Fallout 3 DLC.

^m^
 
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39. Re: Borderlands Midnight Madness & Trailers Oct 20, 2009, 09:02 Verno
 
I'm pretty sure there is/was a softmod.

Not to be anal but there is not and never has been a softmod for the 360. Each system has a unique key tied to the motherboard and dvd-rom, it must be extracted before the system will execute any binary from the dvd-rom. This requires removal of the 360 chassis which is not difficult per se if the user has a few years of system building but most others will never bother.

Even so, 99% of folks aren't going to jeopardize their investment and take the chance of getting banned or fucking up their system. Console piracy is almost a non-issue.

Someone had a retarded argument about wanting to play singleplayer games only and blah blah blah awhile back. The reality is that you're right, most people don't want a console or gamertag ban and will never risk this. It's just FUD people spread around to make the piracy situation on the PC seem less of a shitstorm than it probably is. I notice it's only ever brought up when a comparison is made.
 
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38. Re: Borderlands Midnight Madness & Trailers Oct 20, 2009, 08:42 Hump
 
It happens, sure. Console piracy exists. It is not prevalent and never will be until there is a softmod which is highly unlikely due to the 360's security precautions.

I'm pretty sure there is/was a softmod.

Even so, 99% of folks aren't going to jeopardize their investment and take the chance of getting banned or fucking up their system. Console piracy is almost a non-issue.
 
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37. Re: Borderlands Midnight Madness & Trailers Oct 20, 2009, 08:35 Verno
 
They may pretend like it's only a PC problem, but it's actually more of a console problem. Console games have no real DRM and are easily played on modded systems. It's funny how ignorant most publishers are.

The fact that you need to open an Xbox360 to mod it ensures that the majority of the market will never do so. There's also 5 different dvd-roms for the system which all require their own procedures to rip the serial key from the drive, 1 of them even requires a jtag cable. It is not for the layman. Well seeded torrents on private sites are a result of the games being massive in size.

It happens, sure. Console piracy exists. It is not prevalent and never will be until there is a softmod which is highly unlikely due to the 360's security precautions.
 
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