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Livingstone: Used Games "No Benefit"

$40 For That Old Thing? How Used Games Are Priced on Kotaku.AU looks at how used games are priced, talking with several used game vendors, though industry leader GameStop was not willing to comment for their article. The simple economics of supply and demand are still in play, of course, and they examine how this is determined. On a related note, Retailers 'limit UK games market' on the BBC is a GamesCom conversation with a couple of publishers about games at retail and the secondary market (thanks GamesIndustry.biz). Koch Media's Georg Larch tells them digital distribution will help publishers deal with used game sales, while Eidos' Ian Livingstone says they still want to work with retailers because: "These aren't just shops, they are a marketing tool, a window into our world where software houses can display their wares." Of course some gamers buy games at full price only because they know they can later recoup some of that cost by selling games, and many gamers use the proceeds from selling their old games to buy new ones, but apparently Livingstone sees no value in this, saying: "The pre-owned market is a serious problem, because there is no benefit to developers or publishers."

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50. Re: Livingstone: Used Games Aug 20, 2009, 14:44 Creston
 
Okay, last one for awhile, because I can't keep up and should maybe go do some actual work, and we're just going back and forth over the same things. Obviously you as a dev feel you are right, and deserve more, and I as a consumer feel that you (the industry) has been fucking us up the ass for the last six years, and that you can go fucking burn with all your crying.

This prevents the gaming industry from playing with their pricing much

This is bullshit. I'm sorry, but it is. Before there was gamestop, and a used games market, you NEVER played with your prices. You sold everything at 50 bucks. Then you decided, with the birth of the new consoles, that you wanted to sell everything at 60 bucks, and SURPRISE!! people didn't like it, and instead bought cheaper versions. That was so unforeseen!

Sure, it's just 5 bucks. Ten times a year is a free game. If it's "just" five bucks for the consumer, why isn't it "just" five bucks for the industry as well? You made 32 billion dollar of revenues last year (I think, didn't look it up), which is a number that basically kills any "We're not making enough money!" argument that you can bring forth. Try lowering your prices by five bucks for a few games, see what happens.

You correctly argue that you need to find the right point between price and units moved to maximize your profit, but that's not what the industry (at large) is doing. You're not trying a 55 dollar price point to see if it'll sell you 8.5% more copies, thus making you more profit.

Instead you whine that 60 bucks SHOULD be the price point, and that the consumers should simply buy more and more and more copies at that price point to maximize your profits.

Yeah, sorry, it doesn't work that way.

They lean more towards raising costs because they know they can rely upon a certain percentage of gamers that will always buy new

Translate : Let's just gouge our loyal customers so we can raise our bottom lines, because our stockholders demand more profit. Then we'll cry holy hell when ANOTHER company does everything IT can to raise ITS bottom line. Oh, and the consumer should be more supportive of us, because we're so considerate of them

Pot, Kettle etc.

The bottom, unavoidable line is this hurts you as consumers. Less revenues are going to those creating. As a result they have less money to invest in new projects and less money to risk on trying new things.

I don't see how this hurts me as a consumer. Long before the used games market was a big deal, the industry stopped making great games, and instead started making safe games, that maximized profit for the least amount of risk. That's your right to do as an industry, but spare us the "We're just doing it for your benefit!" speech, because nobody is buying it.

The industry is instead incentivized to gravitate towards what they know will sell well, particularly new, as certain games do better this way.

Yes. You did this because it made you the most money, and pleased your investors. You started doing this LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG before Gamestop ever became a problem.
Don't start trying to shift your own decision to make crappier games and to focus strictly on eye candy, and to dumb down everything, on Gamestop, because it's bullshit.

You have the industry wasting creativity trying to get around GameStop, and you have companies that might have stayed afloat sinking because their revenues were chipped away at via used sales widely pushed by GameStop.

Whatever. Gamestop also sank the Titanic, caused global oil prices to go up again, AND they ate all the food from all the poor children in Guam!

How much does gamestop make selling used games? 2 billion bucks a year? How much revenue does the game industry make? Trying to say that gamestop is killing gaming is ridiculous.

And again, the industry changed its modus operandi LONG before we ever heard a fucking peep out of anyone over used games. Don't try to blame all the evils of the game industry on Gamestop, that's just pure rubbish. Devs go under because they make bad games, because they can't manage a budget, and sometimes because they just get a tough break. That's called business 101.

Again, no one thinks you shouldn't be able to sell your games, they think GameStop shouldn't get rich on it.

Then make your own used gamestores. 1-800-USED-GAMES. You can sell back your games, and buy used games, directly from the publisher. Tadaaa!

And you know what will happen? Eventually the industry will find a way to really stop used game sales

*giggles*

Yeah, good luck with that. I'd like to hear you make that argument in front of the Supreme Court.

But, okay, say that you do, through online authentication that's non-transferrable. What do you think will happen? That your profit margins are going to soar through the fucking sky, and that every person who bought used games is just going to shift to new games, automatically?

Or, perhaps, people are going to say "Well, without used games, and without the ability to sell my games back, this is a really fucking expensive hobby, that I can't really afford."
And they'll stop buying so many games. And they'll stop buying so many consoles. And in the end, you wind up with less profits, because the volume of sales has plummeted.

I don't know if it's true, I'm just saying that it's possible. If that does happen, the laughing sound you'll hear will be me. I'd prepare another thing to complain about for why you're not making enough money.

Mark my words: you'll never be able to transfer digital downloads

Mark my words : Impulse already allows you to do so. And guess what? Back to the publisher! So you'd make the money that gamestop is making now!

And how many publishers are jumping aboard this bandwagon? Oh wait, none. Why? Well, because if you're really honest about it, the industry kind of hates used game sales? They'd much rather you all buy new? (I'm just speculating, I don't know why that feature isn't taking off. You'd think it would, with all the incessant crying over gamestop everyone is doing.)

The fact that any kind of wear-and-tear incentivizing away from used sales disappears with digital downloads is terrifying to those that create content.

I think Brad Wardell isn't that terrified. You know why? Because he makes a game that people keep playing over and over, and that he continues to support throughout its lifetime.

So, maybe the game industry as we know it will evaporate, and instead of 60 dollar, five hour AAA titles, we'll see a lot more titles with long replay values, like Galciv, and Civ, and MMORPGS, and RPGs with lots of DLCs, etc.

I won't miss the five hour shooter with pretty graphics. I really won't.

Okay, I gotta go back to work. Good arguments all, it's nice to see that we can still do this from time to time on Blues. I'll check back tonight or so.

Creston

 
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    Date Subject Author
  1. Aug 20, 11:28 Re: Livingstone: Used Games "No Benefit" Surf
  5. Aug 20, 11:52  Re: Livingstone: Used Games Beamer
  30. Aug 20, 13:10   Re: Livingstone: Used Games Creston
  33. Aug 20, 13:16    Re: Livingstone: Used Games Atomic
  38. Aug 20, 13:29     Re: Livingstone: Used Games Beamer
  44. Aug 20, 14:10      Re: Livingstone: Used Games Creston
  36. Aug 20, 13:21    Re: Livingstone: Used Games Beamer
  11. Aug 20, 12:26  Re: Livingstone: Used Games shponglefan
  2. Aug 20, 11:29 Re: Livingstone: Used Games Verno
  3. Aug 20, 11:41  Re: Livingstone: Used Games Wildone
  4. Aug 20, 11:42  Re: Livingstone: Used Games UttiniDaKilrJawa
  7. Aug 20, 11:57   Re: Livingstone: Used Games ldonyo
  9. Aug 20, 12:11    Re: Livingstone: Used Games Beamer
  10. Aug 20, 12:14     Re: Livingstone: Used Games Jerykk
  15. Aug 20, 12:32      Re: Livingstone: Used Games Beamer
  17. Aug 20, 12:39      Re: Livingstone: Used Games Mick
  39. Aug 20, 13:35       Re: Livingstone: Used Games Creston
  41. Aug 20, 13:43        Re: Livingstone: Used Games Beamer
  76. Aug 21, 04:09       Re: Livingstone: Used Games DrEvil
  63. Aug 20, 17:43     Re: Livingstone: Used Games shponglefan
  14. Aug 20, 12:32  Re: Livingstone: Used Games Atomic
  18. Aug 20, 12:40   Re: Livingstone: Used Games Beamer
  22. Aug 20, 12:54    Re: Livingstone: Used Games Narf2029
  23. Aug 20, 12:57     Re: Livingstone: Used Games Beamer
  24. Aug 20, 12:58    Re: Livingstone: Used Games Atomic
  28. Aug 20, 13:05     Re: Livingstone: Used Games Beamer
  32. Aug 20, 13:15      Re: Livingstone: Used Games Beamer
  48. Aug 20, 14:31       Re: Livingstone: Used Games SandPeople
  6. Aug 20, 11:54 Re: Livingstone: Used Games Verno
  8. Aug 20, 12:01 Re: Livingstone: Used Games "No Benefit" Verno
  12. Aug 20, 12:29 Re: Livingstone: Used Games Verno
  16. Aug 20, 12:33  Re: Livingstone: Used Games shponglefan
  13. Aug 20, 12:31 Re: Livingstone: Used Games Reemul
  19. Aug 20, 12:50 Re: Livingstone: Used Games "No Benefit" Verno
  61. Aug 20, 17:37  Re: Livingstone: Used Games shponglefan
  20. Aug 20, 12:51 Re: Livingstone: Used Games "No Benefit" PropheT
  25. Aug 20, 12:59  Re: Livingstone: Used Games Beamer
  21. Aug 20, 12:54 Re: Livingstone: Used Games "No Benefit" Verno
  26. Aug 20, 13:00 Awwww Creston
  35. Aug 20, 13:16  Re: Awwww Ray Marden
  27. Aug 20, 13:02 Re: Livingstone: Used Games Verno
  29. Aug 20, 13:07 Re: Livingstone: Used Games Verno
  31. Aug 20, 13:13 Re: Livingstone: Used Games "No Benefit" Tumbler
  34. Aug 20, 13:16 Re: Livingstone: Used Games "No Benefit" Verno
  42. Aug 20, 13:51  Re: Livingstone: Used Games Creston
  37. Aug 20, 13:22 Re: Livingstone: Used Games Verno
  40. Aug 20, 13:39  Re: Livingstone: Used Games Beamer
>> 50. Aug 20, 14:44   Re: Livingstone: Used Games Creston
  43. Aug 20, 14:02 Re: Used Games No Benefit Verno
  46. Aug 20, 14:16  Re: Used Games No Benefit Creston
  45. Aug 20, 14:16 Re: Used Games No Benefit Verno
  47. Aug 20, 14:21 Re: Used Games No Benefit Verno
  51. Aug 20, 14:47  Re: Used Games No Benefit Creston
  49. Aug 20, 14:36 Re: Used Games No Benefit Verno
  52. Aug 20, 14:49 Re: Used Games No Benefit Verno
  53. Aug 20, 15:02  Re: Used Games No Benefit Agent.X7
  54. Aug 20, 15:28   Re: Used Games No Benefit Beamer
  55. Aug 20, 15:32  Re: Used Games No Benefit DG
  56. Aug 20, 16:54 Re: Used Games No Benefit The PC Warrior
  57. Aug 20, 17:26  Re: Used Games No Benefit Tumbler
  59. Aug 20, 17:30   Re: Used Games No Benefit Beamer
  58. Aug 20, 17:30 Re: Used Games No Benefit The PC Warrior
  60. Aug 20, 17:36 Re: Used Games No Benefit The PC Warrior
  62. Aug 20, 17:38 Re: Used Games No Benefit The PC Warrior
  64. Aug 20, 17:44  Re: Used Games No Benefit shponglefan
  65. Aug 20, 17:45 Re: Used Games No Benefit The PC Warrior
  66. Aug 20, 17:51  Re: Used Games No Benefit shponglefan
  67. Aug 20, 17:56 Re: Used Games No Benefit The PC Warrior
  68. Aug 20, 18:05  Re: Used Games No Benefit shponglefan
  69. Aug 20, 18:21 Re: Used Games No Benefit The PC Warrior
  71. Aug 20, 18:55  Re: Used Games No Benefit shponglefan
  70. Aug 20, 18:39 Re: Used Games No Benefit Mead
  72. Aug 20, 19:12 Re: Used Games No Benefit The PC Warrior
  73. Aug 20, 21:40  Re: Used Games No Benefit Jason
  74. Aug 20, 22:34 Re: Used Games No Benefit The PC Warrior
  75. Aug 21, 03:49 Re: Used Games No Benefit Reemul
  77. Aug 21, 06:48 Re: Used Games No Benefit Z9000
  78. Aug 21, 07:13 Re: Used Games No Benefit dryden555
  79. Aug 21, 08:38 Re: Used Games No Benefit Verno
  80. Aug 22, 21:04 Re: Used Games No Benefit xXBatmanXx
  81. Aug 22, 22:08  Re: Used Games No Benefit Tumbler


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