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Real Name Peter   
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Nickname shponglefan
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Signed On Dec 4, 2008, 02:11
Total Comments 420 (Amateur)
User ID 54594
 
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News Comments > Newell on DRM
24. Re: Newell on DRM Mar 13, 2010, 21:53 shponglefan
 
Jerykk wrote on Mar 13, 2010, 21:36:
I think a lot of you guys are missing nin's point. He's not saying that Valve is responsible for Ubisoft's practices. He's saying that Valve (specifically Gabe) is being hypocritical because they criticize DRM on one hand while supporting the companies that use it.

It's quite a stretch to say that Gabe is implicitly supporting Ubisoft just because their games are on Steam.
 
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News Comments > Newell on DRM
9. Re: Newell on DRM Mar 13, 2010, 16:31 shponglefan
 
nin wrote on Mar 13, 2010, 16:10:
I certainly will, if his lack of action on a system he's apart of allows other publishers to harm a market that he himself would be wise to support.

By allowing that shit on Steam, he's part of the problem.

Again, it's not his responsibility to decide what customers want. It's the customers who decide. Why is this a hard concept?

Also, considering that AC2 has been in Steam's top 10 best sellers in the past month, I question how much "harm" this is doing.

This comment was edited on Mar 13, 2010, 16:38.
 
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News Comments > Newell on DRM
5. Re: Newell on DRM Mar 13, 2010, 16:00 shponglefan
 
nin wrote on Mar 13, 2010, 15:48:
If Gabe was serious, he'd tell UBI to take a hike. Steam refusing to do business with them on principle would gather a lot of attention.

Of course, he won't. He'll continue to use one hand to point and make people cheer for him, while keeping the other under the table to collect money from companies that sell their games on steam with additional, unwanted DRM.

Don't blame him for being a businessman. Ultimately, it's the customers who decide whether they want Ubi's DRM, not Gabe. Nobody is forcing people to buy Ubi products just because they're on Steam.
 
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News Comments > Deus Ex: Human Revolution Revealed
50. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Revealed Mar 13, 2010, 15:41 shponglefan
 
Creston wrote on Mar 13, 2010, 14:48:
And plenty of customers are annoyed when a new game lasts five hours. So why is YOUR customer right vs my customer?

I never said one or the other was "right". I said that companies should design games for what the majority of their customers want. If their customers want 25 hour games, the company should try make 25 hour games. If their customers want 10 hour games, the company should make 10 hour games.

It comes down to figuring out what your customer base wants and going from that.

I'll agree that games that just make you travel through the same halls (ie, Halo) over and over again are just retarded. But there's nothing wrong with a game that lasts 20 hours and is 20 hours of great content.

I don't disagree with this. If a game warrants 20, 30 or 50 hours, then by all means games can be made that way. As long as content isn't necessarily filler as some games do (like you said, Halo).

Yet there seems to be a prevalence of people who complain that if a game is longer than ten hours "They will never finish it."

I'm not sure what else to call that apart from "no attention span."

It's called "different customer needs/wants/expectations". That's how one is successful in business: meet the needs of your customers and the sales will follow. Doing anything else doesn't make sense.
 
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News Comments > Deus Ex: Human Revolution Revealed
47. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Revealed Mar 13, 2010, 12:18 shponglefan
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Mar 13, 2010, 12:05:
He didn't really miss the point, and you just repeated what he had a problem with:

"as a result, would prefer something shorter not longer"

Why?

Because some customers may not want to make the commitment to having to spend months to finish a game.

Speaking for myself, I have a schedule which at times can get very busy (even now I type this Sat morning while in the office). As a result, game playing time is often limited to only a few hours a week. I do not want to get into a 25+ hour story-driven game if I expect it's going to take me months to finish it. I'd rather play such a game when I have more time.

Therefore, I tend to look for shorter games. It has nothing to do with short attention spans or anything of that sort. It just comes down to personal preference and not having boatloads of time to spend playing games.

Even if Mass Effect 2 takes you a year to complete that just means you got more awesome content that lasted you a long time. The only reason to want games to be shorter is if you don't really enjoy them enough to want to play them that long.

Part of the issue is that quantity != quality. Some games are padded out with filler material, so just because something is longer doesn't mean it's all good. I'd rather have a tight, quality, non-repetitive 10 hour game than a 10-hour game stretched to 30 hours with filler content.
 
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News Comments > Deus Ex: Human Revolution Revealed
45. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Revealed Mar 13, 2010, 09:45 shponglefan
 
Creston wrote on Mar 12, 2010, 23:59:
Yeah, oh my God, imagine that! You'd have to play a game for a whole MONTH! What's the world coming to? Much better to just buy a new game every week and play that five hours, right?

This logic never ceases to amaze me. How something can be "too long" to be enjoyed.

The point (which you have missed by a country mile) is that different customers have different needs, and some have more limited time than others. I was simply trying to elucidate that a 25 hour game which could be finished in a week for some would take a month or more for others. And that some people, as a result, would prefer something shorter not longer.

You instead choose to spin this to suggest it's a problem with the customer. But I imagine you're not in product development.
 
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News Comments > Deus Ex: Human Revolution Revealed
36. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Revealed Mar 12, 2010, 22:57 shponglefan
 
Creston wrote on Mar 12, 2010, 22:05:
Because it's too complicated and lasts too long for the people that play games nowadays.

The people who play games nowadays are the same people who used to play games. It's just the gaming population has aged and have jobs, SOs, children, etc.

If someone only has 5 hours a week to play games, then a 25 hour game suddenly becomes a month+ long commitment.
 
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News Comments > Deus Ex: Human Revolution Revealed
32. Re: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Revealed Mar 12, 2010, 19:02 shponglefan
 
Zoom wrote on Mar 12, 2010, 12:32:
DX2 was such a turd because it was developped for consoles. It's even the arch-example of this effect.

It was also a "turd" because of hyper-inflated expectations people had after DX1 (which imho is overrated anyway).
 
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News Comments > The Making and Unmaking of Infinity Ward
10. Re: The Making and Unmaking of Infinity Ward Mar 7, 2010, 23:13 shponglefan
 
If the result of this whole thing is fewer CoD games, I am all for it. Except it probably won't be. Dang.  
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News Comments > Assassin's Creed II PC DRM Patch
8. Re: Assassin's Creed II PC DRM Patch Mar 3, 2010, 22:39 shponglefan
 
Fact that shit like this requires a patch shows how utterly stupid and broken their design of this DRM scheme was.

*awaits version 1.02: "DRM system removed; person responsible for it was sacked"*
 
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News Comments > Three CoD Games Coming?
7. Re: Three CoD Games Coming? Mar 2, 2010, 22:46 shponglefan
 
Yay, more rail-shooters!  
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News Comments > Aussie R18+ Debate Hysteria
31. Re: Aussie R18+ Debate Hysteria Mar 1, 2010, 18:54 shponglefan
 
Prez wrote on Mar 1, 2010, 13:39:
Does anyone really care what a wacko like Hellbinder has to say? It's pretty obvious from his usual random, desultory and irrational rant fests that he's not playing with a full deck.

That, and he lives under a bridge.
 
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News Comments > Aussie R18+ Debate Hysteria
10. Re: Aussie R18+ Debate Hysteria Mar 1, 2010, 12:04 shponglefan
 
I was thinking of moving to Australia one day, but the more I read of the ridiculous censorship politics there, the less I want to move.  
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News Comments > Op Ed
31. Re: Op Ed Feb 28, 2010, 15:25 shponglefan
 
Yifes wrote on Feb 28, 2010, 14:54:
Doesn't the term RPG originate from PnP? If so, then it's reasonable to apply the features of PnP and Western RPGs to the definition of a RPG.

Western-style CRPGs grew out of PnP games, and in turn JRPGs grew out of Western-style CRPGs.

It's pretty silly to play the reductionist game, because if we do that then RPGs may as well not exist in video game form at all.

It always seemed to me that JRPGs are misnomer, and since then, the term RPG has only been misused more and more, with ever broadening definitions, so that it has lost most of its original meaning.

Definitions evolve. It's the nature of language.

This is still ridiculously broad, with criteria open to wildly different interpretations. There are RPGs without adventure style stories (like some tactical RPGs which are just a series of missions), and there are multiplayer shooters with quest driven gameplay (ie. take this objective, get experience, level up). It seems like all you're doing is drawing arbitrary lines in the sand.

Like I said, the definition is broad and there is overlap with all sorts of other genres. And hence, all the subgenres. But I use the definition as it is typically used by gamers at large. Jerykk on the other hand, has his own private definition that nobody else seems to subscribe to.
 
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News Comments > Ubisoft DRM Titles Confirmed
97. Re: Ubisoft DRM Titles Confirmed Feb 28, 2010, 13:31 shponglefan
 
Parallax Abstraction wrote on Feb 28, 2010, 02:25:
I had a pretty spirited debate with a former industry person about this issue on Twitter tonight. He claims to know several major people at Blizzard and that they have told him StarCraft 2, Diablo 3 and any title that uses Battle.net 2.0 will make use of very similar DRM that will require you to be online all the time, even to play the single player portions of their games. He obviously wouldn't say who he knows so this isn't confirmed or anything but if that's true, expect this issue to become a way bigger stink than it even is now.

That will be disturbing if that comes to pass, especially as EA appears to be going a similar route. This really could signal the death of (single-player) PC gaming as we know it.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
27. Re: Op Ed Feb 28, 2010, 10:31 shponglefan
 
Jerykk wrote on Feb 28, 2010, 03:44:
As such, I think it's reasonable to use those traits to define the genre.

Except there are always outliers. Painting yourself into a corner with an extremely rigid defnition is silly.

I thought of another: Zork. It's one of the granddaddies of them all and yet I'd think you'd be hard pressed to find any adventure gamers that don't consider it an adventure game. Per your definition, it wouldn't qualify.

If a game doesn't give you any meaningful choices, it can't be a role-playing game.

Why not? Other than your own say-so, you haven't given any reasons for this.

It seems you've defined RPG based on solely on earlier Western CRPGs, which grew out of PnP RPGs. These are a mere subset of the broader RPG genre, which includes action RPGs (like Diablo et al.), strategy RPGs, JRPGs, FPS hybrids (Deus Ex, System Shock 2), etc. All you've done is defined a subset, not the whole genre.

Likewise, you've defined adventure games based on the 80's/90's era graphic adventures, but not the broader set.

The whole point of genres is to make it easier to classify games. If you use such broad definitions, there's no point in having genres at all. If an RPG is defined as any game that has leveling, that means CoD, BF, God of War and a host of other games are RPGs.

Like i said three times now, it's not strictly leveling. It's a combination of character-leveling mechanics (usually revolving around combat) and adventure-style story/quest driven gameplay. Note that the latter usually includes somewhat freeform game worlds (i.e. non-linear movement), ability to interact with other characters, ability to obtain/use items, etc. These are typically characteristic in RPGs as well.

GoW arguably could come close to an action-RPG, although it lacks character-driven leveling mechanics (since all you do is boost your weapons). This is also why Zelda is usually not considered an RPG, although it too skirts the border.

BF and CoD don't qualify, because the leveling in those games is strictly tied to multiplayer which is purely action. Games like System Shock and Deus Ex are better examples of hybrid FPS/RPG style games.

This comment was edited on Feb 28, 2010, 12:54.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
24. Re: Op Ed Feb 28, 2010, 00:36 shponglefan
 
Jerykk wrote on Feb 28, 2010, 00:27:
Define "adventure game." To me, an adventure game is a completely linear, story-driven game that revolves around puzzle-solving and NPC conversation. While RPGs do have NPC conversations, they typically do not revolve around puzzle-solving, nor are they completely linear.

Adventure games need not be completely linear (i.e. The Void) and they also don't necessarily need revolve around puzzle solving (i.e. The Path). And for that matter they can probably get away without NPC conversations, although I can't think of a title off-hand.

The fact is, it's almost impossible to come up a completely rigid defintion for any gaming genre. Definitions are broad and fluid, and with many exceptions.

RPGs need to be open-ended because it is the genre that is defined by having the most choice.

No they don't. Just like you can have non-linear adventure games, you can have linear RPGs. It doesn't make them non-RPGs.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
22. Re: Op Ed Feb 28, 2010, 00:14 shponglefan
 
Jerykk wrote on Feb 27, 2010, 21:53:
Leveling alone is not sufficient to qualify as an RPG.

Of course not. There's the whole adventure game component, too. Hence: RPGs really are just adventure games with leveling mechanics.

So far your rebuttul consists of "nuh-uh!". So good luck with that.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
20. Re: Op Ed Feb 27, 2010, 21:49 shponglefan
 
An RPG should let you solve each situation in a manner of ways (though these typically boil down to violence, stealth or persuasion). It should also let you make high-level choices (otherwise known as moral choices) that have a greater impact on the story and the game world.

No, the only thing RPGs "should" do is let you level up your character. That's about it. RPGs really are just adventure games with leveling mechanics.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
12. Re: Op Ed Feb 27, 2010, 18:57 shponglefan
 
So.. the writer is complaining about JRPGs being JPRGs?  
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420 Comments. 21 pages. Viewing page 10.
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