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Nickname JohnnyRotten
Email Concealed by request - Send Mail
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Homepage http://
Signed On Mar 17, 2008, 21:55
Total Comments 370 (Amateur)
User ID 46743
 
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News Comments > SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed
59. Re: SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed Mar 18, 2013, 17:37 JohnnyRotten
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 17:21:
I'm going to step back here and say that I have both a law degree and an MBA. You're arguing about your opinion on law and accounting. I am not.

Ahh, now a MBA as well. Quite frankly, I'm not buying what you're selling. Your claims certainly aren't impossible, but as I recall, in the past, you had a bad habit in the past of being in whatever field best supported your argument. I could certainly be mistaken. Perhaps some of the old-timer blues news'ers could chip in here.

I also wonder if the old Blues News posts are still floating around somewhere in an archive somewhere. I think the last time I saw that you had whipped out the I'm in profession X, you claimed you were a lawyer (after previously stating you were in games doing graphic design for games or something posts before that).

Sorry, I know exactly 5 people who are lawyers who post on the internet (I've heard that there may be more than that). Until I have proof that you are one of that club, I'm not going to give your arguments any special weight because of your statements.

Regardless, I'm still going to challenge the veracity of your statements based on their content, not because of your attempts to argue from authority.
 
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News Comments > SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed
53. Re: SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed Mar 18, 2013, 17:08 JohnnyRotten
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 16:32:
You do have to book it somewhere. But the cost is the cost of distribution since it's a digital good. We're talking pennies. The cost of Crysis 3 is tens of dollars.

Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 16:32:
And, when someone is claiming that you account for something the same when it's a real money loss as you do when it isn't a real money loss certainly makes me feel like an expert.

Thanks for making your position clear. This gives me a clear picture of your understanding.
 
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News Comments > SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed
52. Re: SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed Mar 18, 2013, 17:05 JohnnyRotten
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 16:21:
What damages are there?

This isn't the first bad launch. Where's the lawsuit for every MMO? Where's the lawsuit for D3? While this is probably the worst launch, the law doesn't really pay attention to degrees of wrongness so much as wrong.

I would think the primary job of the law was to determine the degrees of wrongness. The practice and execution of law over time seems to back this up this theory rather convincingly. There is not a single penalty for all laws (for breaking any a law, you shall be beaten with a wet noodle), and for most laws there are degrees of penalties, with mitigating and aggravating factors often being take into account.

Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 16:21:
Why would it go to anything beyond the botched launch? What did EA do wrong? Software is considered imperfect. Entire games have been sold that barely work, but so long as they work they're ok. What was that one? Big Rigs? Hard Rigs? It was a racing game that didn't even have collision detection. Anywhere. You fell through bridges in the tracks. Was there a lawsuit? No.
Why?
Because it's better to have a bit of buyer beware than to force developers to make perfect software (something that is 100% impossible.)
I'm not quite sure how you connect the legal dots from previous example products that did not perform as advertised (hint, hint), to thinking that this automatically binds the consumer or the courts to a value proposition akin to caveat emptor.

I'm sure I could, without a terrible amount of effort come up with hundreds of anecdotal examples of places where the ground seemed ripe for a lawsuit, but they didn't occur. I could also easily do the opposite - lawsuits without grounds. However, both cases would commit the biased sample fallacy, and would not prove my point. However, I would make the point that a lack of previous action on some cherry picked examples does not preclude future action. It's not a precedent when someone decides not to sue. Not suing, of course, may be prudent for many reasons that don't have to do with the "righteousness of the cause".

Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 16:21:
Are you complaining about the forced always-on, which the box clearly states is necessary, or are you complaining about the broken simulation, which no statute or court has every required?

I'm not complaining about anything, as I'm merely an interested observer here. However, I would point out that courts deal every day in specifics during cases that are not encoded into law. The legal system isn't a hard coded tool in which every decision point about every subject, and its details must be decided in advance. It's a framework in which broad principles can be used to determine if harm has come to one or more parties regardless of the specific and atomic complexity of the subject.

I'd also like to point out that there appears to be a case of special pleading in your arguments - that "gaming" or "software" is somehow outside the bounds of normal consumer and legal practices. I would certainly acknowledge that the technology industry has often caused the legislative and judicial branches a fair amount of heart burn because of its fast evolving nature. However, it certainly doesn't exist outside of either.

Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 16:21:
And you ask my how I come to the conclusion that no damages can be proven. What damages do you think are involved here?

Lastly, if any game this year would deserve a lawsuit it would be Colonial Marines, but even that has zero chance. Any complaint you could make about CM could be made, to a lesser degree, to every single game ever release (in most cases infinitely lesser degrees.)

Well, I'm not a judge, so I wouldn't be comfortable pretending that I knew what the chances of any hypothetical lawsuit based any any number of approaches could be, but "zero chance" seems to indicate that the power resides completely with one party here. That in, and of itself, would stumble across the inequality of bargaining power issue, which could lead to interesting consequences.

I think there are several angles one could take for both of these products. I've not looked extensively at either, so for both of these, I'm delivering opinions based on second and third hand perceptions of both.

For example, consumer protection laws that deal with warranty and guarantee. Sure, the publishers have come up with some interesting language to try to side step both, but can they? Sure, they've gotten away with it, but that doesn't bind the courts to their actions.
 
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News Comments > SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed
43. Re: SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed Mar 18, 2013, 16:23 JohnnyRotten
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 16:10:
Ug.
So, for one, EA owns the games they're giving away. They do not own Crysis 3. There are contractual issues to have concerns about. CryTek likely does not want their product to be given away for free just yet, as it devalues the product, even if they get paid for it.

I wouldn't disagree in the least with this statement. However, my question was how this was an accounting nightmare. Reading on...

Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 16:10:
For another, there are huge accounting differences between giving away something for free that you own and giving away something free that someone else owns. EA giving away DS3 costs it nothing. Nothing at all. There's a possible lost sale, but that doesn't show up in accounting. And there's the cost of distributing on Origin, but that's minimal.

This would be a particularly stupid way to proceed. You book the sale as a loss, and use that against your corporate taxes. You don't just let it vanish into thin air. Actually, I'm not sure if you can - I'm not an accountant, but I've got a feeling that even as a "gift", you'd have to record this somewhere.

Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 16:10:
If EA were to give away Crysis 3, though, it would have to compensate Crytek. They get paid per sale, unlike EAs internal studios. So EA would owe them money. There'd be arguing about how much, but let's assume it falls at whatever Crytek gets at a $60 sale. Assume it's 60% of that. EA would have to give Crytek $36 for each copy they give away. That's a real loss. That needs to show up on the books.
EA wouldn't be able to change the contract terms of amount owned to Crytek per copy. That's already been decided. The only way this would come into play is if Crytek was being compensated as a percentage of the retail cost, and not a flat fee per copy. I'm not a publisher, or the accounting end of a development firm, so I'm not sure of the normal contract practices here. However, this hardly falls under the definition of "accounting nightmare".

Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 16:10:
One is merely lost revenue, the other is real, actual lost capital.
I don't mean this to be a jerk, but is it that you don't understand how EAs relationship with these developers work, how accounting works, or did you just not think this through?

I did think this through, and found the specific comment made here as being specious at best, thus my question. Speaking in general, perhaps a better approach would be to attempt a conversation first instead of pretending to be an expert in all things, with opinions being dictated as infallible facts.
 
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News Comments > SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed
41. Re: SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed Mar 18, 2013, 16:11 JohnnyRotten
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 16:06:
Your HO doesn't really apply to legal facts...
Accepting this offer doesn't negate legal obligations. However, given that the issue here is a botched launch, there's also very little damages to be proven and, really, EA has little to fear from a lawsuit..

Why would a lawsuit be constrained to a "botched launch"?

Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 16:06:
Seriously, how does having to wait a long time, and having to wait 2 weeks until wait times disappear, damage you in the long run?

Why would the lawsuit be constrained to damage done to you "in the long run"?

Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 16:06:
The key to a lawsuit is damages. While the launch was insulting, no one can prove damages, and no attorney will bother with this because, without damages, there's no chance they'd make back their legal fees.

How did you come to the conclusion that no "can prove damages"?
 
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News Comments > SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed
38. Re: SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed Mar 18, 2013, 16:00 JohnnyRotten
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 14:50:
jacobvandy wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 14:41:
Where's Crysis 3? Anyway, I think a cool statement could be made if as many people as possible took SC4, regardless of whether they already have it or not.

EA just published Crysis 3. They don't even own the franchise.
EA developed all the games listed.

They can't necessarily give away Crysis 3, since they don't own it. Yeah, it's over Origin so they could just give it out for free then give CryTek the cash they'd have made on the sale, but that is a bit of an accounting nightmare.

How is booking a sale, regardless of the price, and then accounting for that sale to the developer an "accounting nightmare"? This is what EA does 24/7/365, literally millions of times a year. Having a cost of $0.00 doesn't make it any harder to record or compensate than a cost of $.01, or $googleplex (ok, the latter is pretty hard to record).

 
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News Comments > SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed
37. Re: SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed Mar 18, 2013, 16:00 JohnnyRotten
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 14:13:
EA offers pretty much their newest releases and you guys just see a trojan horse?

Buying SC and getting DS3 free isn't terrible. Doesn't make up for it, but people here saying "it's just marketing!" as if EA would be getting nearly the return in DLC some people think.

If anything I find it odd that they limited this list so much. It has their biggest recent games. Why not more or less include any game?

It is a trojan horse. There's obviously going to be lawsuits about the game, it's suitability, and the lack of refunds. Accepting this offer will basically make it impossible to participate in any such suit, as you have already been offered, and accepted recompense for your troubles.

As always, IMHO.
 
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News Comments > SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed
4. Re: SimCity Compensatory Games Revealed Mar 18, 2013, 13:40 JohnnyRotten
 
jdreyer wrote on Mar 18, 2013, 13:22:
I'll credit them with compensating with some top notch stuff. Nice nod for them to add SC4. Still, by not including DLC, you can tell they view this as an opportunity to grab more cash.

It's another marketing move. How many of those products have $$$ DLC that isn't included here.

I can see the meeting now:

Let's offer some old titles up. For the newer AAA stuff, if they haven't bought it by now, they aren't going to. Let's make sure to offer the base packages and try to make some money on the side getting the suckers, sorry, idiots, to buy the DLC.
 
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News Comments > SimCity Hacked to Play Offline?
131. Re: SimCity Hacked to Play Offline? Mar 14, 2013, 20:48 JohnnyRotten
 
Wolfox wrote on Mar 14, 2013, 20:32:
JohnnyRotten wrote on Mar 14, 2013, 19:44:
So thumbs up or down on Anno 2070? Looks good, but hard to tell from screen shots. Solid sim?

Let me put it this way - it's the best city builder I've played since Zeus: Master of Olympus. I've played it for more than 50 hours by now, I'm still having tons of fun, and I haven't seen even half of the content. I strongly recommend it.

Sold!
 
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News Comments > SimCity Hacked to Play Offline?
129. Re: SimCity Hacked to Play Offline? Mar 14, 2013, 20:02 JohnnyRotten
 
Redmask wrote on Mar 14, 2013, 19:50:
Anyone hear word on a save game emulator? I would like to see legitimate customers have access to offline functionality so they can at least recoup something since EA lied about refunding their money.

I saw a post on RPS that I thought was pretty funny and pertinent to your question. Paraphrasing:

Create a VM with the game, play offline, and snapshot the VM while the game is running. Voila! Quick and easy local saves.

Horrible, but maybe possible. Wall2
 
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News Comments > SimCity Hacked to Play Offline?
127. Re: SimCity Hacked to Play Offline? Mar 14, 2013, 19:44 JohnnyRotten
 
So thumbs up or down on Anno 2070? Looks good, but hard to tell from screen shots. Solid sim?  
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News Comments > SimCity Hacked to Play Offline?
126. Re: More Big Picture Details Mar 14, 2013, 19:43 JohnnyRotten
 
HorrorScope wrote on Mar 14, 2013, 19:27:
EA Games: Built on decades of lies.

Flip that around and you got a great name for a band or a game - "Lies of Decades"
 
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News Comments > SimCity Hacked to Play Offline?
121. Re: SimCity Hacked to Play Offline? Mar 14, 2013, 18:52 JohnnyRotten
 
Cutter wrote on Mar 14, 2013, 18:39:
JohnnyRotten wrote on Mar 14, 2013, 18:29:
Sorry for the wall of text. Man I hate those kind of comments.

That wasn't a wall of text. A wall of text is one of those rambles without paragraphs and/or bullet points. That was easily readable and coherent.

I'll try to fail harder next time. Especially on the coherent part.
 
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News Comments > SimCity Hacked to Play Offline?
118. Re: SimCity Hacked to Play Offline? Mar 14, 2013, 18:29 JohnnyRotten
 
Sorry for the wall of text. Man I hate those kind of comments.  
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News Comments > SimCity Hacked to Play Offline?
117. Re: SimCity Hacked to Play Offline? Mar 14, 2013, 18:27 JohnnyRotten
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 14, 2013, 17:52:

That's not even slightly true. No one buys the old game?

1) The old game is cheaper
2) The old game is fondly remembered by those that haven't played it in years

Do you know what the game got an enormous bump on Steam when Deus Ex: HR was released?

Of course the bump is bigger here, due to the launch, but I keep seeing people talk about how SC4 was the best selling game on GoG. Gee, you think?

GOG doesn't sell Simcity 4 (at least not currently - maybe in the past?). Sorting their catalog by bestselling shows Simcity 2000 about 20 slots down. So your statement here doesn't appear to be true, unless GOG used to sell it. Was that the case?

Deus Ex: I can't find any kind of aggregator of Steam's weekly topseller list. If you have a source to back up your claim, I'd certainly be interested. I'd also be interested in correlating that with general sales trends over time as well as any potential sale that was going on - other factors that could be involved that would determine if your point is more about causation then correlation.

On your other two points:

"1) The old game is cheaper". Yes, so is expired butter. Neither old butter nor an old game whose feature set, graphics, and overall capabilities stands up very well when stacked against something fresh. People who play games as a rule don't toss the new version over to buy the old version based the price point. Unless you have very cruel parents. Man, I wish I had kids. I'd do that to them all the time. Here kiddo - have a brand new copy of Madden 94. Have fun! Keep bitching and you'll be getting Empire Deluxe next instead of Call of Donkeys 9.

"2) The old game is fondly remembered by those that haven't played it in years". Certainly. Of course, those people already own the old game and generally don't need to repurchase it. Those who do would certainly be a small market. Also these people would most likely have indulged themselves somewhere between the announcement and the release of the newest flavor of the game. After all, they don't have to wait to play their old game - it's already released.

I believe that the reality here is that what people generally want, including the "fondly remembered" types, is to play a BETTER version of what they already own, or remember from the fond days of yesteryear. Otherwise no sequel would ever sell.

What I think we're seeing here* is that the failure at every level for SimCity has driven those who so badly wanted a better sim game back to the old ones in the same genre. Thus the high volume of sales of much old games in the same genre AFTER the release of the new. Such a large volume that it's driving other new AAA titles down underneath them

* I'll stress "think" as I'm not an expert in market dynamics; furthermore I value the truth to much to make fact claims like "not even slightly true" without evidence. /snark off.
 
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News Comments > SimCity Hacked to Play Offline?
108. Re: SimCity Hacked to Play Offline? Mar 14, 2013, 17:37 JohnnyRotten
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 14, 2013, 17:31:
Why is that crazy? Who wouldn't expect older versions of a franchise to explode when there's interest for the new?

Heck, RollerCoaster Tycoons 2 and 3 are in the top 20.

If the successor beats the old game in quality, no one buys the old game. So I would think no one expects any sim game like or comparable (RC Tycoon) to be on the charts at this time. That they show up at all is another sign of fail for EA.

Also internets. Because.
 
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News Comments > SimCity Hacked to Play Offline?
106. Re: SimCity Hacked to Play Offline? Mar 14, 2013, 17:25 JohnnyRotten
 
wtf_man wrote on Mar 14, 2013, 15:49:
And it'd be hillarious if somehow Sim City 4 suddenly outsold Sim City 2013. Mybe EA would get the message.

...Nah.

Holy crap - not that far from the truth:

Amazon Digital Download Best Sellers

Simcity - #1
Simcity 4 Deluxe - #2 <----- CRAZY
 
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News Comments > SimCity Status Report
35. Re: SimCity Status Report Mar 14, 2013, 11:03 JohnnyRotten
 
JoeNapalm wrote on Mar 14, 2013, 09:16:
This is the entirety of their "AI" in pseudocode:


FOR ALL SIMS
1. GOTO HOUSE
2. IF HOUSECAPACITY = FULL
THEN HOUSE = HOUSE + 1
3. GOTO 1


Reading around, it seems it may be just that dumb. And not just for house - job, shopping, transportation routes, power, water, etc.

I've read claims about people saying that most if not all of the agents share the same base code when it comes to expressing destination behavior.
 
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News Comments > SimCity Status Report
34. Re: SimCity Status Report Mar 14, 2013, 10:57 JohnnyRotten
 
Panickd wrote on Mar 13, 2013, 21:23:
Since the game is inherently broken and does not do any of the granular simulation they said it did who really cares if they get their shit together server-wise? I was an ardent defender of this game and their decision to do it all online but this game has just turned out to be crap on crap with more crap on the side.

What would you like for dessert sir?
 
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News Comments > More on Offline SimCity
86. Re: More on Offline SimCity Mar 14, 2013, 10:47 JohnnyRotten
 
Dev wrote on Mar 14, 2013, 01:40:
ViRGE wrote on Mar 13, 2013, 22:10:
All I'm really saying is that it's not so lightweight that it's 100K people spread over 23 CPUs. It has to be at least a bit heavier weight than that.
Why?
It wouldn't surprise me if that was the case, if they are doing a minimal amount on the server, just enough to get away with saying they have to have it always online.

The cluster of nodes vs individual servers debate is all supposition at this point - we don't have any hard evidence either way. It does make sense from the design standpoint for the system to be used in a cluster (redundancy, scalability, etc.), but more difficult to do from a financial standpoint.

I wouldn't be surprised to find either.

This comment was edited on Mar 14, 2013, 17:03.
 
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370 Comments. 19 pages. Viewing page 3.
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