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Real Name S Westberg   
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Signed On Feb 15, 2007, 19:09
Total Comments 2117 (Senior)
User ID 34131
 
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News Comments > Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified
111. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 16, 2013, 01:36 Flatline
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 15, 2013, 09:28:
To my knowledge there's been one lawsuit based on Kickstarter, and it was in a Justice Court which leaves no precedent. A guy sued for his $70 back. And he didn't get it, because the guy he sued went bankrupt.

Kickstarter is not a promise of goods. It is not a store. It's not an investment, either. It's a donation, typically in exchange for a promise to get something if the project succeeds.

The project does not always succeed.

For the aforementioned lawsuit, the guy doing it had no clue how to run a company. He didn't negotiate his vendor contracts until after the Kickstarter ended. This is common, but the result was all his vendors knowing how much money he had available and being ruthless in negotiations. He did not lock his team in until afterwards, and several of his teammates made unreasonable demands after the Kickstarter ending, with one refusing to give up some crucial design documents until he got 50% of the company (ultimately helping lead to the company folding.)

But, per Kickstarter, nothing wrong was done. Kickstarter is not an investment, nor is it a store, nor is it a promise. Projects fail before coming to market all the time. Or change drastically.

Really, the best you can do is demand your money back.

And, in this case, you can't do that. They promised something without DRM. They will likely deliver something with DRM. Do you know what any court would say? You were promised a game and you got a game. That's it. Guess what: courts do not enforce every single part of a contract, assuming they'd even call this a contract. They determine if something is a condition or a promise (with Kickstarter, almost always definitely a promise), then if it's material or immaterial:
In determining whether a failure to render or to offer performance is material, the following circumstances are significant: (a) the extent to which the injured party will be deprived of the benefit which he reasonably expected; (b) the extent to which the injured party can be adequately compensated for the part of that benefit of which he will be deprived; (c) the extent to which the party failing to perform or to offer to perform will suffer forfeiture; (d) the likelihood that the party failing to perform or to offer to perform will cure his failure, taking account of all the circumstances including any reasonable assurances; (e) the extent to which the behavior of the party failing to perform or to offer to perform comports with standards of good faith and fair dealing.

In the case of not being DRM-free enough, I doubt it would pass as being found material by most courts. It comes back down to whether the software is in any way less usable. I do not think a court would find there was any kind of damages here. You have your game, you can play your game, and financially you have lost no money. Sure, you paid for a DRM-free game, but what you really paid for was the game. You wanted the game. It being DRM-free just made it better to you. But it isn't as if the game is objectively worth less because it has DRM.

I generally agree here, but you're missing one large portion of your argument:

You're getting a second copy of the game, DRM free (in some cases 3 copies of the game), if you backed the kickstarter. The DRM free portion of the KS is mentioned, repeatedly, explicitly, in the rewards, and an argument could be made that in doing so, the DRM free part is a kickstarter reward.

Which would make a court case even more ridiculous, which is my point.

When you're throwing the accusation of fraud around, that's an actionable offense. But in reality, this isn't fraud, it's not even *close* to fraud, and it's hyperbolic whining and teeth gnashing to pretend otherwise.
 
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News Comments > Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified
104. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 15, 2013, 02:32 Flatline
 
El Pit wrote on Apr 15, 2013, 00:04:
So, whoever thinks that a game should not have save points (consolitis) and likes evolving characters and loot (all of that was in classic crpgs!), is now a "Joe Bro" and games that give you that are "WoW with guns". I.e., whoever criticizes "SR" touches a nerve here that makes the counter a kind of hilarious overreaction.

But in the end, it's you, the backers, that need to be happy with the game. If you are, good for you. But not everybody else is a Joe Bro who wants every game to be WoW with guns. That's all I'm saying. Good night.

Little bit of hyperbole, but character progression is not solely defined by loot alone. In fact, the very worst RPGs reduce your character down to a christmas tree to hang loot off of. It's the most basic issue that they can't seem to solve in D&D with fighters- to keep up with the casters they have to become Christmas Trees.

If you want that, you have a LOT of loot-driven game alternatives. Torchlight 2, Boarderlands 2, Path of Exile, and Diablo 3 all immediately spring to mind.
 
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News Comments > Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified
103. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 15, 2013, 02:29 Flatline
 
Creston wrote on Apr 14, 2013, 18:47:
Harlequin wrote on Apr 14, 2013, 18:43:
SR, reward wise, was just about the payday & karma. That's it. Using that payday from Mr. Johnson for better equipment, cyberware & karma for skills. Loot on people you killed really wasn't much of a thought the vast majority of the time.

The very first time we played Shadowrun (After being a heavy D&D group for years), we "looted" a few mercs we had taken down. So our GM goes "Okay, each of you now has an assault rifle, a gun, a knife, a grenade and a flak jacket, bundled up loosely in your hands. You're starting to draw attention."

Agree completely it's about the karma and the payday. You may loot some nuyen off your foes, or perhaps some spare ammo, but that's really about it. And since you're often on a tight time-schedule (your hacker can't keep the corporate security guys fooled forever), you really don't take the time to rifle through some rent-a-cop's clothes to see if he has a 10 nuyen credstick on him.

Creston

And as I said before, I can easily envision a not-very-hard to implement abstract loot system inside a basic scripting program. When you loot, you pick up a "bunch of loot", you make a note in the mission, and at the end of the mission when you're not getting shot at you look at what loot you grabbed. Kind of like how you don't stop in the middle of trick-or-treating to check out what candy you got. You run to the next house and at the end of the night explore your haul.

I mean hell, people have fucking programmed FUNCTIONAL computers into minecraft of all things. As long as the scripting language is powerful enough, creative minds can come up with all kinds of end-runs around engine limitations.
 
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News Comments > Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified
100. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 14, 2013, 21:40 Flatline
 
Julio wrote on Apr 14, 2013, 18:01:
Cutter wrote on Apr 14, 2013, 16:40:
it's pretty fucking clear this isn't fraud. They are delivering exactly what they said they would.

They aren't exactly delivering what they said they would. They didn't mention the DRM free version won't be DLC capable. Given the DLC can be used in user built mod content, it means some user mods will not be usable with the DRM free version in the future. If they had made this clear at the beginning - no issue at all.

How about refunds, or allowing backers to trade down to lower tiers - nope, they're not doing that either.

Beamer wrote on Apr 14, 2013, 17:43:
Fraud, in regards to a Kickstarter, is essentially impossible, by the way...We have no recourse.

Just because there's no recourse, doesn't mean fraud can't happen.

It would the same to claim there was no fraud in the 2008 financial crisis because zero wall street executives were prosecuted for fraud. No recourse, I think we all know there was fraud there (of course someone may want to argue this point - who knows).

*Facepalm*

Actually dude you have a legal recourse. You can sue Hairbrained Games. There's legal precedence for failure to deliver product in a kickstarter.

Thing is, if you actually lawyered up and went to court you'd be laughed straight out of court. Because you're a dipshit.
 
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News Comments > Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified
90. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 14, 2013, 15:40 Flatline
 
El Pit wrote on Apr 14, 2013, 13:09:
Harlequin wrote on Apr 14, 2013, 12:44:
In the PnP version I RARELY recall players looting bodies unless they were looking for a specific object. This is actually in theme with the PnP game it's based on. If you are looking for WoW with guns in essence then correct, you are not the target audience.

Yeah, exacly. Right now I'm replaying Baldur's Gate. It has loot, you know. That makes it WoW with guns, right? Rrrright.

Yeah and the loot system has the same problem that I was describing a few posts earlier. It's generally vendor trash or stuff of minor use. The analog for magic items in D&D isn't readily present either in SR, unless you count cyberware, which gets... messy... extracting. The idea that you can hack out wired reflexes in 30 seconds is BS. You *might* be able to rip off an arm or leg or *gag* a damaged cybereye, but this is stretching it and not something you'd do anyway.

There are no spell scrolls or potions as it were either in SR, which means unless someone has a gun that you want, or has the exact same gun that you have, grabbing their stuff is a matter of vendor trashing, and as I already pointed out, a smart author/programmer can work around that easily enough through storytelling.
 
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News Comments > Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified
57. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 14, 2013, 02:55 Flatline
 
Jerykk wrote on Apr 14, 2013, 02:40:
While the lack of loot and quicksave are disappointing, they aren't necessarily going to be game-breakers. From what I've seen and read, the areas in SR are going to be relatively small and I assume that checkpoints are triggered whenever you enter an area. If checkpoints are also triggered before and after combat as well, I don't really see any problems. This isn't a game about exploration or dungeon crawling. As for loot, RPGs don't really need it if their character progression systems are deep enough. The Witcher didn't really have any meaningful loot and it was still a great RPG.

In regards to requiring Steam for DLC, it is a bit weird but at this point, if you refuse to use Steam, you're already missing out on many games. Activision, 2K, Paradox, Sega, Capcom, Namco, Codemasters, Square, Konami, Bethesda and Deep Silver all use Steamworks now. EA uses Origin and Ubisoft uses Uplay. If you refuse to play any game with DRM, that leaves you with very few games to play.

From a GM perspective I fucking hate loot. It's a pain in the ass. Want to challenge your players? Well, if you gear up your NPCs, and the PCs gank them, congrats, your PCs have just jumped significantly in power, and will be hard pressed to go back in power level without invoking player screwage (rightly so). So you either accept that your players are on an inordinately steep power curve, or you throw lots of junk at them, or you throw creatures or NPCs with weapons/equipment/abilities that can't be looted. Usually the second and third options are the most frequent, and you're reduced to looting to generate money- and usually chump money at that.

In that respect, I can already think of ways around no corpse looting- It can be done in a narrative mode. After combat bust out a "do you loot the bodies?" question. If you do, it adds to the nuyen you generate *after* the mission (After the mission, you go hit your fence and unload the 15 Renraku brand SMGs, only used once, slightly stained with blood, Economy Value!). With the engine running the way they said it would, you could feasibly even introduce repercussions to taking the time to loot inside that scripting engine, such as taking too long and security beefing up.

And really, since 95% of all looting goes straight to your bankroll anyway, I'm *TOTALLY* fine with this.
 
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News Comments > Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified
56. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 14, 2013, 02:46 Flatline
 
Cutter wrote on Apr 14, 2013, 01:32:
I didn't realize it was a checkpoint system. Sigh. This game just seems to be getting worse and worse.

If the game's a hit they may be convinced to add a save system. Which would be hilarious if they offered at-will saves and looting in the steam-only version. I'd laugh my balls off.
 
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News Comments > Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified
28. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 20:57 Flatline
 
If it's really that big of a deal, all I can suggest is Murder/Suicide.

Or lots of impotent nerd rage. That too.
 
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News Comments > Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified
22. Re: Shadowrun Returns DRM Clarified Apr 13, 2013, 20:03 Flatline
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 13, 2013, 19:30:
NKD wrote on Apr 13, 2013, 14:28:
eRe4s3r wrote on Apr 13, 2013, 14:23:
So why did they even need a Publisher and of all the Publishers MICROSOFT?? You can self-publish on Steam...............

Microsoft isn't publishing the game, but they own the rights to making Shadowrun games, so they needed a license agreement for this game.

Whoaw... I did not know that... how the heavens can a licensing agreement force you to use DRM? Well that's MS for ye...

Still this is borderline evil, if they did know this before they should have made this clear during kickstarting. And not months after with no way for recourse. Maybe they just don't understand what DRM Free version means. Backers were offered the GAME DRM FREE, not "A version of the game you can't buy any DLC for"

Mhh...

And you'll get the game DRM free. And the editor. And everything else the promised you. AND you'll get a Steam key.

What's the big fucking deal? And to Julio, how is it fraud? You get 100% of what you paid for. So future DLC is out of the picture. Most people bitch about there being DLC in the first place.

I swear, if everyone was given free blowjobs some of you folks would bitch about having to give up your Precious Bodily Fluids.
 
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News Comments > More Diablo III Itemization Answers
5. Re: More Big Picture Details Apr 12, 2013, 13:38 Flatline
 
HorrorScope wrote on Apr 12, 2013, 10:15:
Did anyone ask... Since the Playstation is getting a reworked version, which is supposed to be better, not rely on AH or always online. Are you bringing those features over to the PC? And if not why not? Since it is now be hypes as "the better version".

Why on earth would they "fix" the PC version? That's eliminating the market of gamers who have a PS3 and a PC and will buy BOTH games.
 
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News Comments > Stardock Plans "At Least" Two Game Announcements
14. Re: Stardock Plans Apr 10, 2013, 19:10 Flatline
 
RollinThundr wrote on Apr 10, 2013, 17:16:
Flatline wrote on Apr 10, 2013, 16:50:
Sweet "at least" two games I can completely and utterly skip.

I hope White Knighting Glenn Beck was worth it.

I'd rather people White Knight Glenn Beck than call anyone who disagrees with the Obmessiah's policies racist.

Considering your trollish nature, that makes total sense. Birds of a feather and all that. And it's funny you used that comparison, because what got Beck in trouble was that he said that Obama was a racist and "hated white people" because he was black and from Africa.

And actually, the thing that got me *really* angry isn't necessarily that he said what Brad said, but that he clearly was public about it, there was a backlash, and then he was like "oh well the public was never meant to see that so just pretend you didn't". And then tried to excuse it as some sort of protest.

If he had manned up a little I could have at least respected him, but spinless and disingenuine and siding with a bigot? Three strikes right there. I'm done.

And it's not like the games his company has released since then have made me feel like I'm missing out on anything either.
 
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News Comments > Steam and DRM-Free Shadowrun Returns in June
75. Re: Steam and DRM-Free Shadowrun Returns in June Apr 10, 2013, 19:02 Flatline
 
Julio wrote on Apr 10, 2013, 18:15:
Flatline wrote on Apr 10, 2013, 17:59:
Where's the lie?

Their promise "A Digital Downloadable copy of the game, DRM free"
What they are delivering: "a downloadable version of Shadowrun Returns"..."unable to browse and play community-created stories from within the game"... "future DLC will only be available through Steam"

I don't see in their promise of a DRM free game that it will not have access to future DLC, and that it may or may not have access to community-created content. They also talk about a one-time update, so who knows if its going to get patched on an as needed basis. Maybe they should have added all the fine print when they planned their kickstarter. Or just told the full truth from the beginning.

Lots of Steam fanatics on Blue's, but Steam is still DRM.

Err... they already said like a year ago that they had to ditch the in-game browser, and you didn't pipe up then that I remember. Because in the end it comes down to: do you want an in-game browser or more game? They picked more game. Here comes Steam, and they say "we'll take care of that for you actually" and it can go back in. It's not like this is a big studio: They're making a game on around a million and a half.

And I went back and looked at the original pitch, hell even the stretch update pitches, and nowhere do they EVER mention DLC (I did find a "it's too early to even think about that"), other than, perhaps, the Berlin pack, which you're still getting DRM free.

Quit moving the goalposts dude. You're wrong here. You can get the full game DRM free, or you can use steam to get the full game and extra. The only thing that they've rolled back on that I've seen was the inability to share PCs as running mates, and they were honest about that- it's a money thing. There's just not enough of it.
 
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News Comments > Steam and DRM-Free Shadowrun Returns in June
74. Re: Steam and DRM-Free Shadowrun Returns in June Apr 10, 2013, 18:57 Flatline
 
Creston wrote on Apr 10, 2013, 16:55:
Flatline wrote on Apr 10, 2013, 16:41:
Oh, also, with 4th ed, it's way, way easier to *not* actually throw that stunball (which you're right is f*cking death), but to summon a force 14 spirit that throws Stunball 14 on your behalf. Oh, and that spirit basically has 14's for it's stats, so even if your sammy gets init, he's still f*cked. Joy!

And that's horseshit. Nothing in 2nd edition stopped you from trying to summon a Force 14 elemental. Except the fact that that Force Rating was likely higher than your Magic rating (and it's doubtful that you were a Force 8 Initiate), so the Drain becomes physical instead of stun, and you now have a 14D physical drain to try to whisk away with your willpower. Good luck?

How the fuck can you now summon that shit in 4th edition?

Where earlier SR games were kind of a joyful mess, I have a particular dark spot in my heart for 4th ed. They did one thing very right (switch to static target numbers) and did everything else entirely wrong. Matrix rules are still a nightmare (the in-text introduction to basic hacking took, I shit you not, over 38 dice pool rolls in real life, for a 5 second hack), vehicle rules are borked to the point where riggers are barely existent, and magic/summoning is way overpowered.

Sounds great... New editions of PnP rpgs now all seem to be "let's just make shit completely nonsensical and flashy, so the bros will play it!" Rolleyes

Creston

As far as the uber-spirits, I'd have to look into it (I stopped playing 4th a while back), but it had something to do with a way that you'd resist drain at half the spirit force, so throwing a force 14 spirit was actually fairly soakable, and way better than throwing a single spell at anything near that strength.

The problem with the matrix rules in 4th is that... well... first the people who wrote the aren't good at math, so the dice mechanics break under moderate examination, and two, they didn't actually *think* of how a wireless full mesh matrix would actually function, so it's like 25% wifi for dummies and 75% Swordfish. So you're doing "cool" stuff like triangulating the signal of a commlink in order to hack it, but at the same time if you drop into VR/Hot Sim you just *see* what's going on, but you still have to... oh christ I give up. It just adds rolls on for no apparent reason. Plus, you can break the matrix rules with what one of the older developers called "the hall of mirrors", where you're allowed to run infinite agents on your commlink that explicitly take up no resources in order to create basically an impossible-to-breach defense because it's an infinite series of point-to-point links you have to go through before you can actually attack the commlink.

Part of the problem is that CGL fired almost all of their entire freelance staff about a year into 4th ed, after it turned out that they "accidentally co-mingled" (their term not mine) most of the company's money with their own and couldn't pay their bills. They have a couple decent freelancers now, but all of the old guard is gone, and the writing sucks for it. Freelancers have admitted, for example, that there is zero proofing. No spell checking, no editing, nothing other than basic typesetting.
 
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News Comments > Steam and DRM-Free Shadowrun Returns in June
67. Re: Steam and DRM-Free Shadowrun Returns in June Apr 10, 2013, 17:59 Flatline
 
Julio wrote on Apr 10, 2013, 16:55:
Add me to the people who won't be buying this now. I didn't get on this Kickstarter early enough so was going to buy on release.

Too bad they basically lied about DRM free to their backers. (I don't consider forcing Steam for DLC to be DRM free). It's not like they can't release it on GOG which would be DRM free. Funny to see the backer comments asking for refunds on the Kickstarter site.

Hope they're not planning on doing another Kickstarter, because they're losing credibility fast. Looks like they also moved some of the stretch goals into paid DLC. More lies?

I'm still happily Steam free. No thanks.

Where's the lie? There will be a DRM-free link on their webpage when the game goes live. It might not be patched as fast as the steam version, and it won't have in-game browser support, which they had announced was the case like... six months ago due to budget restraints. In this case, steam integration is adding in stuff that they were going to have to pull out.

And I'm not seeing where stretch goals are becoming paid DLC. You're still getting Berlin (after the fact), you're still able to play other peoples' games (just not through an in-game interface)....

I'm just gonna go ahead and say you're full of shit.
 
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News Comments > Stardock Plans "At Least" Two Game Announcements
5. Re: Stardock Plans Apr 10, 2013, 16:50 Flatline
 
Sweet "at least" two games I can completely and utterly skip.

I hope White Knighting Glenn Beck was worth it.
 
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News Comments > Steam and DRM-Free Shadowrun Returns in June
57. Re: Steam and DRM-Free Shadowrun Returns in June Apr 10, 2013, 16:47 Flatline
 
Harlequin wrote on Apr 10, 2013, 16:38:
Cutter wrote on Apr 10, 2013, 15:38:
Harlequin wrote on Apr 10, 2013, 11:50:
Cutter wrote on Apr 10, 2013, 10:04:
Anyway, even though I'm not happy with the stylized look of the mobs I'm hoping the rest of the gameplay makes up for it.

Could you clarify what you mean by this? You don't like the art direction/mood set by it?

The environmental stuff is fine - could be grittier but we'll see how it comes out at final - but the it's the NPCs I don't care for. The cartoonish look of the orcs with the massive upper bodies and teeny, tiny legs. It just destroys it for me. At least with SRO they went with normal looking NPCs.

hhhmmm I suppose they did go overboard with the metahumans to much. It's like they took the artwork of SR 1,2,3E and decided to exaggerate it for some reason.

They go into this in the previous update.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns/posts/435030

Basically, it's for instant character recognition. The idea is that the most important, visual "pop" is at the top of the character. As the art dude explains, your character is about 50 pixels tall. There's a fine line between lost in the noise and "oh that dude's a troll".

Hate it if you want, but it makes things easier to look at/gain info from.
 
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News Comments > Steam and DRM-Free Shadowrun Returns in June
56. Re: Steam and DRM-Free Shadowrun Returns in June Apr 10, 2013, 16:41 Flatline
 
Creston wrote on Apr 10, 2013, 14:54:
Flatline wrote on Apr 10, 2013, 14:22:
and while lately the setting has taken to suckling at the teat of "magic wins EVERYTHING" game design,

It's kind of always been that way, though. In 2nd edition, the only chance a street sam ever stood against a mage was if he won initiative. A stacked Stunbolt 6 would absolutely obliterate any street sam. Obviously the Drain would probably take out the mage as well, but magic was pretty heavily overpowered, especially if you knew how to mitigate Drain.

God, I loved playing a mage in Shadowrun.

Creston

Any Sammy would probably be getting init from the absurd 'ware they're carrying.

The entire metaplot for 4th edition though was "get the magic McGuffin!" The big deal with otaku becoming technomancers is basically ignored, and at one point you have shit like a laser designator spell, where you automagically generate the target code for whatever ordinance is in the air at that very moment to guide it to a target using a very real laser pulse that you create as a mage (violating the Sr rules of magic to hell and back)... Instead of... you know... the 1000 nuyen laser designator.

Oh, also, with 4th ed, it's way, way easier to *not* actually throw that stunball (which you're right is f*cking death), but to summon a force 14 spirit that throws Stunball 14 on your behalf. Oh, and that spirit basically has 14's for it's stats, so even if your sammy gets init, he's still f*cked. Joy!

Where earlier SR games were kind of a joyful mess, I have a particular dark spot in my heart for 4th ed. They did one thing very right (switch to static target numbers) and did everything else entirely wrong. Matrix rules are still a nightmare (the in-text introduction to basic hacking took, I shit you not, over 38 dice pool rolls in real life, for a 5 second hack), vehicle rules are borked to the point where riggers are barely existent, and magic/summoning is way overpowered.

And I won't go into the adventure where you go destroy evil Jew ghosts haunting a concentration camp so you can rescue the mystical knife that was used to experiment on all said Jews during their lifetimes. But that's a real, 4th edition adventure. True story.
 
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News Comments > Steam and DRM-Free Shadowrun Returns in June
37. Re: Steam and DRM-Free Shadowrun Returns in June Apr 10, 2013, 14:22 Flatline
 
My pleasure. I was a huge shadowrun geek back in the day. There's been a lot of changes (shamans an mages were generally the same in PnP, they just couldn't learn from each other, and shamans had totems/animal spirits that shaped their personalities, instead of shamans being spirit summoners) but I'm more okay with that than a lot of purists are. For me SR was more about the setting than anything individual mechanic, and while lately the setting has taken to suckling at the teat of "magic wins EVERYTHING" game design, the earlier stuff had a good mix of machine and magic, and that was always what was cool for me. Fireballs and machine guns and stuff like that. Going back to the 2050's setting is kind of awesome.  
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News Comments > Steam and DRM-Free Shadowrun Returns in June
35. Re: Steam and DRM-Free Shadowrun Returns in June Apr 10, 2013, 14:05 Flatline
 
Jerykk wrote on Apr 10, 2013, 12:45:
How does a combat system even work without hitpoints?

In SR, up to 3rd edition, you had "light, moderate, serious, deadly" levels of damage. And even then, you still had "hit points". I believe 1 point of damage was light, three was moderate, like seven was serious, and 10 was deadly, or something like that. You had a separate track for both physical and stun. So it'd take three light wounds to get you to moderate, two moderates to get you mostly to deadly, etc...

However, the game also uses dice pools. With variable target numbers. Which on a D6 is pretty much utter bullshit. Why? Because it makes calculating the odds of success a pain in the ass, and the odds swing in a very lurching manner. The odds of hitting target number 7 is identical to hitting target number 6 for example (roll a six, it explodes, roll it again, if it's a 6 keep going), since you *have* to add at least 1 to your explosion roll.

When it sort of worked, you'd have weapons with soak difficulties and damage codes, like a pistol being 6M damage. Every two net successes stages the damage up one level. Once you hit deadly, every 2 successes stages the soak difficulty up by one. So two net successes on your attack stages to 6S, 4 net to 6D, 6 net to 7D (which is exactly the same as 6D), and 8 net to 8D. Then you'd take that target number and roll your body and your armor to soak. Every two successes stages the damage down by one. So on 8D, if you roll say six dice, and two of those are sixes, and you roll a 2 and a 3 on your explosion roll, then the D/Deadly damage is staged down to S/Serious.

The idea was that if you were good enough, you could 1-shot people with a .22 pistol all day long. Of course, in the PnP game this worked because you had a combat pool, where you had dice that you could allocate either to dodge or to attack each round, so you had a level of granularity going there.

In the end, variable target numbers blow, especially on a D6. In SR4, they ditched damage codes and went straight to variable hit points, which sucks for other reasons.

According to Jordan, the original combat system was literally pen & paper combat lifted whole, and I can totally see how that would be... an issue.
 
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News Comments > Morning Consolidation
3. Re: Morning Consolidation Apr 9, 2013, 14:46 Flatline
 
jdreyer wrote on Apr 9, 2013, 13:17:
Obviously when Sony leaked that the PS4 would have only 4 GB of RAM, the uproar in the Blues forums caused them to change their minds.

Not just Blues, but the community in general gets sick of the anemic memory limitations in consoles. Memory is fugging dirt cheap these days, and you can rest assured that sooner or later devs will use every last bit of resources you put into a console and wish there were more.
 
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