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User information for Jonas Taylor

Real Name Jonas Taylor   
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Nickname theyarecomingforyou
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Signed On Apr 8, 2005, 11:25
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News Comments > On Star Citizen "Feature Creep" and More
35. Re: On Star Citizen Jul 21, 2015, 13:27 theyarecomingforyou
 
Wildone wrote on Jul 21, 2015, 12:53:
0:18 a good example of the problem right there..why the fuck is he doing a motion capture shoot for S42..I know its supposed to have a story with probably cut scenes but for gods sake..wasting time on this and not on the game/core mechanics. And who's to say hes not spent a lot of time on the core mechanics though right?!?! Well..I doubt it very much...all this waste and bloat is not gonna make the dogfighting better with a mocap shoot, I promise you that.
I absolutely want performance capture and celebrity actors for a AAA game like this. It absolutely IS core to the immersive nature of the game as was promised. Calling it 'bloat' is ludicrous.

Wildone wrote on Jul 21, 2015, 12:51:
No the reality is can they deliver, and so far it seems not. Integrating all these systems together into 1 game is impossible. The complexity of the ships alone across a network in MP? Good luck with that..let alone everything else lolloolol
It will either work or it won't. Either way we'll find out. However, to dismiss it at this point is premature.

Tumbler wrote on Jul 21, 2015, 13:15:
It doesn't feel like the fans of the game are upset at this point. This feels like the people outside have concluded that now is the time they should be showing results and so if things are still in development then that is a big problem.

Thank you for your concern. We'll see what ends up coming out eventually.
Exactly. Fans have been very positive about the 1.1.5 release, saying it improves the handling of the game. We also know that AC2.0 isn't far away and we'll be seeing the progress at Gamescom. We haven't seen multi-crew for a year, so if there's little progress then the fans will be very vocal.
 
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News Comments > On Star Citizen "Feature Creep" and More
28. Re: On Star Citizen Jul 21, 2015, 12:51 theyarecomingforyou
 
panbient wrote on Jul 21, 2015, 12:31:
That's like when a person refuses to use their 'fun' money to pay the bills because it's been earmarked for different purposes, then wondering why people are irritated when they choose to keep having fun instead of getting to work to pay down those bills because they're only using the fun money and it's meant for fun, not bills.

Is there any proof the money and resources are being used that way? Aside from them pinkie swearing it totally for really real is? Even with its own separate budget it still seems like an inefficient use of resources.

Is there any evidence that it's NOT being used that way? I mean if I were to accuse EA of eating babies I wouldn't expect them to have to prove they don't.

panbient wrote on Jul 21, 2015, 12:31:
Especially if they're planning on a big thing at Gamescon. Why not just announce a temporary radio silence for the next month so they could focus? Derek Smart's concerns would have likely been put on hold pending results but instead they made it into a spectacle. It's a great way to keep your name in the press. Not so sure about delivering a product though.
The community content was one of the stretch goals and is one of the main ways to keep in touch with the community. Going silent for a month would create more of a problem. Normally these videos don't get posted to a site like Blues but there's been a lot of interest in the game recently. This video isn't about Derek Smart.
 
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News Comments > On Star Citizen "Feature Creep" and More
27. Re: On Star Citizen Jul 21, 2015, 12:44 theyarecomingforyou
 
panbient wrote on Jul 21, 2015, 11:50:
All depends on how many other people are dealing with the camera work / video editing that has to happen to produce one of these clips. Then the costs involved with having (likely) high salaried individuals sitting in front of a camera for the perception of 'openness'. You're fooling yourself if you honestly think that clip is being open and isn't carefully structured to reinforce a specific narrative. I understand the community wanted it this way, that's fine, doesn't mean I (and likely many others) will ever think it's an efficient use of resources.
As has already been pointed out the community content is funded by subscribers, money which doesn't count towards the official total. Chris Roberts normally answers questions each week from subscribers about the game but has been busy over the UK directed the performance capture for Squadron 42 since March, so it was important for him to respond to the community concerns that have arisen. The other guy is Ben Lesnick, who is Community Manager.

Really it comes down to whether people trust Chris Roberts. Do I believe he is trying his damnedest to make the best possible game? Absolutely. Am I optimistic about the game? Sure. Do I believe he's going to hit any release date on schedule? No.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month
147. Re: Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month Jul 21, 2015, 12:25 theyarecomingforyou
 
Zor wrote on Jul 21, 2015, 10:25:
So it doesn't matter if they give a date and at the same time say that date could change? You only listen to the part about the date and not the part about it possibly (or in some cases likely) changing?
This.

How many of the people complaining here actually backed the Kickstarter? We know Kxmode didn't. We're talking about faux outrage on behalf of the original backers, yet I'm an original backer and still happy with the development.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month
132. Re: Oh Lord.... Jul 21, 2015, 08:55 theyarecomingforyou
 
Strango wrote on Jul 21, 2015, 08:27:
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Jul 21, 2015, 06:17:
Look at the original pitch - there's no mention of... multi-crew ships...

For someone who spends most of his time correcting other people about the original Kickstarter you did get this part wrong. I'm a golden ticket holder and a day 1 backer. It was said from Day 1 that the Constellation (Rear Admiral Package) "...is a multi-person craft that includes a turret and a smaller fighter that can be manned by your friends!". I didn't buy that package myself, but my friend did so I recall very clearly that it was defined on day 1 as that's the whole reason he bought it.
I'm talking about the pitch video. People are suggesting that FPS was a major departure because it wasn't shown in the video and I was just pointing out that neither was multi-crew or planetside. Plus a manned turret is very different to the multicrew gameplay that's being developed now.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month
125. Re: Oh Lord.... Jul 21, 2015, 06:17 theyarecomingforyou
 
The Half Elf wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 23:02:
Bad engine choice, made even more obvious by Roberts hiring ex-Crytek programmers.
There was no engine that could achieve what Chris Roberts wanted. Building a custom engine would have taken even longer!

The Half Elf wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 23:02:
Hiring and creating extra studios. Hiring family members not qualifyed for the projects.
Erin Roberts is a talented producer who has worked with Chris Roberts for decades. He was responsible for the Lego series of games, which is worth over $500m. You're WAY off base.

The Half Elf wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 23:02:
Money spent on salaries, costumes/t-shirts, conventions/gatherings, ship models (all the extra crap that looks like money was just thrown at it so they'd have something cool in the officer).
The money spent on that merchandise and those events raised dramatically more money than they cost, making them an important source of funding.

The Half Elf wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 23:02:
Stretch goals that are taking priority over the initial core game that was the selling point of the kickstarter.
The stretch goals were backed by the community, who overwhelmingly supported them. Numerous community polls support that. Despite that CIG still chose to end them last year because it was felt they were distracting, even though they raised a lot of money. Most of the stretch goals were just extra content (ships, star systems and small additions). The only one that has been questioned is the FPS, which was introduced right at the beginning. But the game was pitched as immersive and FPS is obviously in that vein.

Look at the original pitch - there's no mention of planetside locations, professions, multi-crew ships, VR support, DX12, community shows (AtV, RtV, 10FTC), celebrity voice acting, etc. People unfairly single out FPS when it was one of the earliest features. Not only that but the game was built on an FPS engine, so it was pretty obvious that FPS support would be likely. If you're already walking around ships in first-person then it makes sense that there would be weapons.

How can you have an immersive first-person game set in a war yet there be no handheld weapons? People just aren't being reasonable.

The Half Elf wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 23:02:
Theyarecomingforyou, yes you spent money on this project, and trust me you are NOT the only one that would give a testicle to see this project succeed, but at the same time, don't be blinded because we all remember the Wing Commander/Xwing/Privateer/Freelancer days.
As I pointed out earlier, I backed the game for the minimum amount and when I played and liked where the project was going I increased my pledge. My backing of the project isn't based on the past, it's based upon how it plays and the progress being made. It could all go tits up but for me it was worth the gamble.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month
111. Re: Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month Jul 20, 2015, 21:08 theyarecomingforyou
 
Kosumo wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 20:33:
ROFL

His efforts to develop Freelancer put his company, Digital Anvil, into a place where it had run out of money and had to be brought out to stay alive. Microsoft had enough money to take the risk that was buying Digital Anvil with out even have to think much about it - it was during Microsoft $$$$ days.

Even still, they where not prepared to just keep giving Digital Anvil money while Chris was in charge.

There is a track, there is a record.
Chris Roberts had a great track record with Wing Commander and Starlancer. Freelancer encountered issues and it was interference from publishers that led to Chris Roberts taking a break from gaming. We'll see whether Star Citizen turns out to be the game people want.

Kosumo wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 20:33:
Anyway that avoids the point that you said you there was no second chance at making this game, while I pointed out that there very much could have been if he choose to keep it smaller to start with.
Starting small and building upon it just isn't viable, as it means redoing a lot of the work - it's inherently inefficient. It also means it's difficult to raise finances, as people have already bought and are playing the game. For instance, Elite: Dangerous is never going to get to the fidelity or scale of Star Citizen. There's one chance to do the game properly.

Unlike Freelancer, now Chris Roberts has the money to make his vision come true. I'd rather the game be delayed than come out a mess like Freelancer.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month
109. Re: Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month Jul 20, 2015, 20:02 theyarecomingforyou
 
panbient wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 18:58:
So even YOU are acknowledging feature creep? ;P
Yes, the game has increased in scale and fidelity; no, it's not feature creep. The stretch goals were abandoned last year and, as I pointed out, most of the stretch goals were simply enhanced versions of what was already planned.

Aero wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 19:15:
Just for the sake of maintaining accuracy, I believe that Starlancer was primarily his brother's work, and the development of Freelancer has eerie paralels to SC, and Roberts was in fact forced out of the project precisely because the scope of the game he was pushing was not feasible at the time. He is undoubtedly a very creative man with good ideas and vision, but I worry about him being fully in charge of a project.
Actually, Starlancer was a true Chris Roberts game. During the development of Freelancer the developer was bought out by Microsoft, after which the game was dramatically scaled back and Chris Roberts left - that was THREE YEARS before it shipped.

That just highlights that if Star Citizen was being made by a publisher it wouldn't bear any resemblance to what it's aiming for today. The difference here is that Chris Roberts can't be forced out of his own company and will stick to his creative vision.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month
99. Re: Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month Jul 20, 2015, 17:35 theyarecomingforyou
 
Kxmode wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 16:42:
No offense taken. Since CIG refuses to give me a refund I'm still officially a backer. I understand why backers are still passionate about the game. I have absolutely no ill-will against the community, but at times they make me sigh.
I'm a regular on the RSI forums. You don't need to explain to me how irrational elements of the community can be, as some of the people there are seriously obsessive and about random issues. Take this topic, for instance. It's basically one person arguing that Star Citizen should be DX12 / Windows 10 exclusive and that anyone who refuses to upgrade is a pirate or an idiot. There's another where people take an off-the-cuff joke about there being no knives and use it to argue that there will be instakill knife melee in-game.

Kosumo wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 17:02:
Wrong - It says right thier in the text that Blue posted and I quote Christ Roberts

"A large amount of the company, especially now, has been working on it. We've got extra help from the German studio, which is a bunch of CryEngine experts."
They have 15% of the company working on the FPS module. And yes, my quote is direct from Chris Roberts.

Kosumo wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 17:02:
Also why do you use GTA 5 as an exsample? To me that undermines what you are trying to use it to say. For instance GTA 5 greatness comes form Rockstar evolving their games over time, using each one to learn lessons for the next. Exsample - the greatly improved shooting in GTA 5 over GTA 4 came very much form the work they done on Max Panye 3, Driving from lessons they learned with their Midnight Club games and the fleshing out of the open world eviroment from Red Dead Redemption.
That only supports my point, which is that CIG didn't have an established studio and an existing game to base it off. It was always going to be an uphill struggle.

Kosumo wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 17:02:
This is how CIG should have gone about this - making the oringal 20 million level of game, learning from that and moving on to improve and make better a second time round.
There is no 'round two' - there's one shot at a game like this.

Kosumo wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 17:02:
Also you mentioned Hollywood level voice actors (?) like most AAA games have these days - other that Kevin Spacey in a COD game, I struggle to think of any in the last 5 years - could you list 3 recent exsamples? (none in GTA, none in Assassian Creed, none in Far Cry)
Skyrim, Batman: Arkham series, Beyond Two Souls, RAGE, Metal Gear Solid V, etc. Also, it was expected because of Chris Roberts' previous games.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month
85. Re: Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month Jul 20, 2015, 16:38 theyarecomingforyou
 
loomy wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 16:31:
chris roberts should admit that his estimates are shit, but he can't because he's a narcissist.
He has, that's why CIG doesn't like giving firm dates. However, when they refused to give a new date for Star Marine the press claimed it was 'delayed indefinitely', so it's a case of damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month
81. Re: Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month Jul 20, 2015, 16:30 theyarecomingforyou
 
Kxmode wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 16:25:
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 15:57:
Kxmode wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 15:45:
theyarecomingforyou, zor I'm going to ask both of you two very important questions. When did you back and for how much?

I backed for $930 since 1/2013 (Veteran backer status).
I pledged $37 during the original Kickstarter, which finished 11/2012 (Original Backer status). I was also one of the first to register on the RSI website, which makes me a Golden Ticket holder. When Arena Commander was released I enjoyed it and pledged more. At the moment my total pledge stands at over $500, though that includes multiple copies of the game as gifts for family members and friends, merchandise and a CitizenCon ticket.

As someone who backed the game when it was originally pitched I'm very happy with the progress. I was hoping for a spiritual successor to Starlancer and Star Citizen is shaping up to be that and more.

Thank you. It's puts context on who you are as a backer.
No worries. Btw, I don't have anything against you personally. I know I can be a bit blunt and/or rude at times, so I apologise if I have offended you or anyone else here (except Derek Smart - I'm happy to offend him).
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month
78. Re: Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month Jul 20, 2015, 16:18 theyarecomingforyou
 
InBlack wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 15:46:
Ok, everyone just chill for a bit. Lets forget for a moment the fact that the S in FPS stands for 'shooter', and lets set aside the arguments whether it was promised at kickstarter or added post kickstarter as a strech goal. Can we all agree that Chris Roberts now claims that the FPS module is INTEGRAL to the entire Starcitizen experience? Mkay?
See, now that's a fair point to make. Not whether the FPS should exist but how much importance it should have. However, there seems to be some confusion. While FPS combat will exist - for ship boarding and planetary / space station encounters - it's only a small aspect of the game. The reason it's considered important is because of the associated mechanics, especially zero-G. It's also important to get the mechanics right for the social module. Those who like FPS can gravitate towards it; those who dislike it can minimise their exposure to it. What's great about the game is that people can play it how they like.

InBlack wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 15:46:
So if it's an integral part of SC as CR claims, then where the fuck is it????? Why was it delayed indefinitely a few weeks ago, only to be announced as IMMINENT as in ready for public test realm in 4-5 weeks??? If its so damn important, why was it not developed first and foremost? Why wasn't it released before anything else?
It wasn't 'delayed indefinitely' - they simply declined to give a new release date, other than to say it was coming soon. In fact they repeatedly stated it was coming soon. It IS important but there have been several issues that delayed it - the netcode being one, some of the animations being another. However, you have to remember that it's being developed by a third-party studio - the other modules are being developed independently to minimise the impact of a delay with any one of them.

InBlack wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 15:46:
How can everyone be so oblivious to the fact that this dude keeps promising shit, failing to deliver on said promises, promising other shit, failing to deliver, promising something third, fourth etc. etc. etc. How can you trust someone in a leadership position to make a game when he is all over the fucking place all the time?? I really feel sorry for CR's employees, Im sure they are all a dedicated bunch, working in an impossible framework. This is not how you manage a successful project, it's how you ruin a potentialy succesful one. Anyone on this board following this have any project management experience? Id like to hear what you have to say about it.
Games get delayed. It happens. Nobody likes it but they're to be expected on a project of this scale. Look how long it took to release GTA V on PC - it was six years. It was delayed numerous times even though they were an established studio, yet it was recognised as a great game when it came out. Team Fortress 2 took even longer. Unreal Tournament was significantly delayed. Half-Life and Half-Life 2 were significantly delayed.

At the end of the day I'd rather have a great game that is delayed than a good game that was rushed. What's being developed now far exceeds what was originally promised in scale and fidelity. There is no second chance on a game like this - no other developer is going to drop $100m developing the next Star Citizen. Therefore it's sensible to make this game was amazing as possible, even if that means delays. This is a game that will be played for years, not simply discarded after an eight hour campaign.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month
73. Re: Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month Jul 20, 2015, 15:57 theyarecomingforyou
 
Kxmode wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 15:25:
This! In the original Kickstarter pitch video Chris NEVER once mentioned or even hinted at ANY kind of first person combat. It was ALWAYS going to be space combat. FPS only became a thing as the 20 million stretch perk. It wasn't even part of the pitched game. I should have started requesting my refund back when the 20 million stretch goal was revealed.
WRONG! This has been rebutted numerous times already.

Kxmode wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 15:34:
Stretch goals on RSI's website are irrelevant to the original goals stated on the KickStarter page. There's no mention of ship boarding as a feature on the KickStarter page.
WRONG! The stretch goals are listed on the Updates section of the Kickstarter, including the $3.5m stretch goal on the 14th November. There was also a chart on the main page that was updated as stretch goals were achieved.

Kxmode wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 15:45:
theyarecomingforyou, zor I'm going to ask both of you two very important questions. When did you back and for how much?

I backed for $930 since 1/2013 (Veteran backer status).
I pledged $37 during the original Kickstarter, which finished 11/2012 (Original Backer status). I was also one of the first to register on the RSI website, which makes me a Golden Ticket holder. When Arena Commander was released I enjoyed it and pledged more. At the moment my total pledge stands at over $500, though that includes multiple copies of the game as gifts for family members and friends, merchandise and a CitizenCon ticket.

As someone who backed the game when it was originally pitched I'm very happy with the progress. I was hoping for a spiritual successor to Starlancer and Star Citizen is shaping up to be that and more.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month
61. Re: Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month Jul 20, 2015, 15:19 theyarecomingforyou
 
LurkerLito wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 15:06:
And you obviously don't know a thing about games. Star Marine is a FPS (S as in Shooter, call of duty BS) it has nothing to do with the original game. First person trading, sure walking around your ship yes, but shooter NO! Stop trying to add extra words in there that don't exist.
Here are the relevant stretch goals:
14/11/2012 - $3,500,000
Ship boarding Ė learn more about how Star Citizen will allow players to conduct boarding operations.

Details from the Chairman's Letter:

Once a ship has successfully tractored in a target vessel, it will dock at a pre-determined location on the hull (ie, you will always dock at one of the same doors on the Constellation.) There will be a 30-second period where the attacking player cuts open the targetís door. The defender can use that time to set up to fire back. Think an interactive recreation of the opening scene of Star Wars, with the Rebels nervously waiting to defend the corvette from Stormtroopers.

Players will have access to a variety of upgrades to help/hinder boarding operations. Armored space suits, hand scanners, explosives, more powerful (or functionally different) weapons and so on will be available to players on both sides of the equations.

Defending players will have upgrade options that can help put the battle in their favor: a self destruct process, a dead manís switch, automated miniguns they can position in the cockpit and so on. Itís going to be a challenge to get onboard a targeted ship successfully, one that youíll need to work with your friends to accomplish.

Finally, the cost to recover a boarded ship will ultimately be high. Since youíve disabled and otherwise crippled it in battle (and cut into the hull to board) you must conduct repairs in deep space if you wish to keep the hull rather than simply looting itÖ during which the ship is in danger of being boarded by a third party. Boarding parties should plan to carry an advance repair bot with them or to suffer the difficulty of flying in a depressurized cockpit (limited life support time, less responsive controls.) Finally, only one ship can be flown at once: you will need to work with a partner if you wish to keep a boarded ship and your own craft.

18/11/2012 - $5,000,000
Enhanced boarding options: melee combat, heavy weapons, zero gravity simulation, suit HUD options and EVA combat.

Both of those were added before the game was funded on Kickstarter on the 19th November, 2012.

FPS was intended from the beginning, which is one of the reasons the game was built on CryEngine. It wasn't shown in the original pitch because it would have required too much prototyping and because funding was still a question mark. However, as soon as it was clear the game was going to be funded the stretch goals were added before the Kickstarter closed.

You're simply wrong.
 
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56. Re: Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month Jul 20, 2015, 15:00 theyarecomingforyou
 
SpectralMeat wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 14:44:
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 14:39:
SpectralMeat wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 12:09:
I have not downloaded the patches in a while, does the space ships still control like a free floating camera? No weight, or mass stop and spin around on a dime?
Nope. In fact controlling the drift it a major part of the gameplay. The latest patch has considerably restricted boost to prevent it being abused, making it a strategic tool rather than a fundamental flight mechanic. The controls have changed in this latest patch and more work is being done. The flight model is not final.
Thanks
I will check it out than. Ones the client downloads all 16Tb of patches
No worries.

Calix, one of the developers, has stated that they're working on testing out changes to the control system in the future when they can push out small updates to the PTU (the test server). It's also worth pointing out that at the moment only the small ships are playable and they are inherently more manoeuvrable than the bigger ships that will come later. Something like the M50 or 350R will manoeuvre very quickly, whereas something like the Gladiator or Cutlass will be much slower.

This latest patch changed gimbals (they move slower to curb the advantage the mouse has), changed the thrust values of most ships and rebalanced boost (reduced it). Ship health has been doubled to improve longevity and balance missile spam (which has also been reduced). At the moment they're working on the component and armour systems, which is when the game will start being customisable - the mass of the items and their locations will affect the flight handling.
 
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52. Re: Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month Jul 20, 2015, 14:39 theyarecomingforyou
 
LurkerLito wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 11:55:
You're absolutely wrong:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description
Real quick, Star Citizen is:

A rich universe focused on epic space adventure, trading and dogfighting in first person.
Single Player Ė Offline or Online(Drop in / Drop out co-op play)
Persistent Universe (hosted by US)
Mod-able multiplayer (hosted by YOU)
No Subscriptions
No Pay to Win
Please point out where FPS was part of the original goal. It's not FYI, not even in the document. That's what I and many others funded and agreed to including the time line to completion. It's a good thing kickstarter keeps the original docs around, cause I am sure CIG has modified it significantly on their site and revised it to their version of history.
As I pointed out, FPS was included in the stretch goals before the Kickstarter concluded ($3.5m and $5m) - if you check the dates they were both before the close of the Kickstarter (funding was also conducted on the RSI website). That means anyone unhappy with the inclusion of FPS combat could have backed out before the Kickstarter concluded. The only thing that changed was the scale of the FPS module, which - like all other components of the game - increased in scale to take advantage of the extra funding.

The vast majority of funding was raised AFTER the inclusion of FPS. Those backers knew what they were getting, whilst early backers get more for no extra cost. What it comes down to is that the game is delayed. And you know what... that's pretty damned common for a project of this scale. Nobody likes delays but people have to be reasonable and accept that they happen. It was promised as a cutting edge PC game to show off the platform and that's absolutely what it's going to be, now more so than ever.

LurkerLito wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 11:55:
Here is the deal with crowd funding, you come up with a concept, you try to get funds from backers, then *gasp* YOU FINISH IT with what you promised, and then you get to do another or build upon the released version for the sequel. You don't say you're building a Space Sim, then say "ooh it would be great if it had a FPS" then say "we can't deliver the space sim you funded until we also finish building the FPS." That is bait and switch and is the reason backers are mad and looking to get out.
Stop being ridiculous. Adding or improving upon features isn't 'bait and switch'.

Darks wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 12:09:
Personally, I could give a crap less if they have the FPS part of this gamer working. They need to concentrate of the main part of the game and get it completed instead of wasting considerable time and effort and resources on a late stretch goal that was promised.
As pointed out, it wasn't a late stretch goal - it was mentioned before the close of the original funding. Further, it is being developed by an external studio, Illfonic, and so it isn't delaying the rest of the game. Your argument has no merit.

SpectralMeat wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 12:09:
I have not downloaded the patches in a while, does the space ships still control like a free floating camera? No weight, or mass stop and spin around on a dime?
Nope. In fact controlling the drift it a major part of the gameplay. The latest patch has considerably restricted boost to prevent it being abused, making it a strategic tool rather than a fundamental flight mechanic. The controls have changed in this latest patch and more work is being done. The flight model is not final.

Flatline wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 12:41:
Question: How did we go from "the FPS fails at fundamental design levels to be fun and we're basically taking the thing back to design indefinitely and we don't have any estimate of when FPS will be in the game" to "FPS IN THE GAME BITCHES AT GAMESCON!" in literally 3 weeks?
Because that was never the case. The delay was misrepresented in the gaming press. Ben Lesnick, the community manager, posted unofficially that the delay was a matter of weeks not months but that no official date was being given in case things slipped. It's this sort of confusion which is exactly why CIG doesn't like giving out release schedules.
 
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20. Re: Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month Jul 20, 2015, 11:34 theyarecomingforyou
 
Zor wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 11:10:
Depending on the success or failure of what they will demo at GamesCon, you *MAY* have to eat those words

I'm really hoping they blow us away with their work on multicrew and large world so that your points about $999 ships and small skyboxes are addressed. The demo is reportedly going to include their sub-light "supercruise" Quantum Drive travel as well, so this shit may actually start to look like a space game in the vastness of space and not a Sim Pod.

Chris Roberts always said that he wanted this game to be a truly first person experience at all levels, but it's too easy to ignore or reject that point so that people can continue to bitch about scope creep or that the game isn't what they originally planned or advertised. They always had enormous designs for the game provided the money and time was there to realize it. If they are guilty of anything it's being ambitious with their release dates. Being ambitious with the scope is a fantastic thing in this age of stagnating development and status quo games.
This is the thing, it only takes a few good presentations and major releases (FPS, social module, multi-crew, etc) to set things back on track. After that the game should start to come together at a faster rate. Sure it's annoying that development feels like it's ground to a halt but this is the time when most of the progress is behind the scenes. Take the motion capture, for instance - they're developed the script, hired the studio space, built an advanced motion capture facility (with the help of Andy Serkis' studio), built a set, procured the services of Hollywood grade actors and finished filming. That's a MAJOR milestone yet because it's for Squadron 42 it's all been kept under wraps to avoid spoilers.

Every major presentation so far - FPS, multi-crew, social module, etc - has been very impressive yet as the time goes by people seem to forget the scale of what's being achieved. Sure the game could still easily go tits up and have to be scaled back from what was originally promised but that's not where we're at at the moment. In fact the quality keeps being increased.

Gamescom will be a big moment for the game, as right now it has a lot of detractors. If CIG can show substantial progress and release it within a short timeframe (i.e. before Christmas) then that will calm a lot of the negativity.
 
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17. Re: Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month Jul 20, 2015, 11:21 theyarecomingforyou
 
Grokk wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 10:50:
The FPS stretch goal was hit a full 12 months after the crowd funding campaign started.
Wrong. FPS combat was one of the stretch goals hit in the original Kickstarter campaign, both at $3.5m and $5m. Development started in late 2013 (12 months after the start of crowdfunding) and first shown off about a year later. At the moment it has been worked on for 18 months, which isn't much time for a project of this scale (zero-G, accurate first and third person animations, motion capture, netcode, backend integration, etc).

Wildone wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 10:53:
Yes that was the original pitch at some point, then the german fan boys took over and wanted it to be 'everything in space' and have the ships be able to do 'everything in space' and so what you see here is a monumental spectacular failure.
A delay isn't a spectacular failure, it's just a delay. Team Fortress 2 wasn't a disaster - in fact it's one of the most successful and respected games out there - and it took nine years to be released. But no, we can't have sensible comparisons like that.

If you look at most of the stretch goals they're simply adding content (i.e. more missions, more star systems, most customisation, etc) or committing to features that were expected. For instance, motion capture and celebrity actors are industry standard for a AAA project and Chris Roberts' previous games had used celebrities such as Mark Hamill and Malcolm McDowell. Others, like DX12 and VR support, were demanded by the fans and in-line with the pledge of making a cutting edge space sim.

The original release schedule was wildly optimistic and unrealistic given that CIG wasn't an established studio. We get it and Chris Roberts only has himself to blame but it was only a guide and it was stated at the beginning that delays and changes were inevitable. However, the quality of the product hasn't suffered - in fact it's only improved. It's simply been delayed like so many AAA games.
 
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7. Re: Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month Jul 20, 2015, 10:06 theyarecomingforyou
 
Tumbler wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 09:57:
P52 is in game! New update pushed out for the AC side of things 2 nights ago. P52 is one sexy ass ship!
It is. It will also be the cheapest ship at $20 and, as always, will be available with REC (i.e. without spending any money).

Tumbler wrote on Jul 20, 2015, 09:57:
Looking forward to trying it but on vacation now. Hopefully they'll get the FPS thing out one day. I'm more interested in Multi crew but I wonder if that isn't stuck behind the FPS because I don't see how they can offer the multi crew experience without being able to offer a FPS experience in general...and then I have no idea how they go from that to offering a FPS experience inside a space ship that is flying around...
They've implemented 64-bit precision, which is required for the large maps and localised physics grids. They'll be showing it off at Gamescom early next month. They're still working on the Constellation and Freelancer, which will be the test beds for the multicrew support in AC2.0, so I'm not expecting a surprise announcement next month that it's ready. It's not dependent on the FPS as such, as boarding won't be added until AC3.0, but all the progress is in the main branch and that's why AC1.1.5 was delayed - technically AC2.0 could be released before Star Marine. It will be this year.
 
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1. Re: Star Citizen FPS May Come Next Month Jul 20, 2015, 09:53 theyarecomingforyou
 
This was widely expected, as CIG is putting on a presentation at Gamescom. There was also a comment from Ben Lesnick on the forums saying it was expected in weeks, not months. They will be showing off the multi-crew aspects, elements of Squadron 42 and likely the social module, though they won't be showing off the FPS module - that means that it should be playable.

Yesterday CIG released 1.1.5 to the PTU, doubling the number of players supported online, updating the launcher, adding two new ships, rebalancing the game (weapons, boost, damage, etc), etc.

The pace of development up to this point has been slow but hopefully we should see quite a few major additions between now and Christmas. That won't pacify the critics but should satisfy fans and many on the fence.
 
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