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User information for Jonas Taylor

Real Name Jonas Taylor   
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Nickname theyarecomingforyou
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Signed On Apr 8, 2005, 11:25
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User ID 22891
 
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News Comments > Some Star Citizen Refunds
82. Re: Some Star Citizen Refunds Aug 23, 2015, 21:25 theyarecomingforyou
 
Kosumo wrote on Aug 23, 2015, 02:25:
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 09:34:
Kosumo wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 04:23:
Fidelity does not equal great gameplay.
I didn't suggest otherwise.

Yes you did, otherwise what did you mean by this?

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 03:10:
We're all well aware of the delays. What matters is whether the end game is decent and that looks to be the case now more than ever. Go back and watch the original pitch then watch the Gamescom demo - the fidelity is far beyond what was originally shown.

Because the 'gameplay*' in the kickstarter video looks better still than the 'gameplay*' in that Gamescom demo.
Two different things. The fidelity has increased AND the depth of gameplay has increased - it's just easier to see the difference when it comes to fidelity.

Kosumo wrote on Aug 23, 2015, 02:25:
If that is true, and it's what the backers want then why don't people just fund him more money without get spaceships in return?
Because, as I very clearly pointed out, the selling of spaceships has always been how the game has been funded. Continuing that isn't a deviation - it's perfectly consistent.

Kosumo wrote on Aug 23, 2015, 02:25:
I bet if there where not always a new better internet spaceship FOR SALE, then the money would stop. Ergo, adding new ships (which have made some old one subpar from what I've heard) is total GREED.
Of course the new ships are responsible for CIG's income - that's their business model. It's not a secret. But adding new ships isn't greed any more than the initial pitch was - the game would not have been funded any other way.

Were this coming from a publisher like EA or Ubisoft I'd be absolutely on your side but this is a game that literally wouldn't have been made any other way. If your argument is that this game shouldn't have been made then you're entitled to that opinion but the reality is that nearly a million people felt otherwise and have supported the project, while many others will buy it once it's released. That justifies its existence.
 
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News Comments > Some Star Citizen Refunds
81. Re: Some Star Citizen Refunds Aug 23, 2015, 21:15 theyarecomingforyou
 
panbient wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 09:41:
Like an engine + chassis but without a body? Sounds entirely drive-able, definitely not street legal, but totally drive-able, and likely the first 2 of 3 major elements to be addressed.
Please. Look at what's usually added last - seats, electrics, wheels, doors, etc. Definitely not drivable.

panbient wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 09:41:
And still nothing about Squadron 42, you know, the actual spiritual successor to Wing Commander that got so many people hyped in the very first place. And is there evidence or not, you completely flip flop between the start and the finish. Is there actual evidence coming or will it be MIA?
We haven't seen any footage from S42 to avoid spoiling the story but the leak earlier this year revealed a huge amount of the assets being worked on that hadn't been shown to backers.

panbient wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 09:41:
Don't forget, HL2, or GTA5, or Doom4 or whatever are being made by groups of people who've got a history of delivering. They're also not first attempts, and they're not trying to shoot for a target that no one has hit before and beyond the scope of anything else in the entire industry. Think about that. People who are essentially doing the same thing over again still have a hard time getting it right.
CR has a well-established and critically acclaimed history in the industry, as have many of the people working for him. It's more difficult for a project like this because they needed the funding before they could hire the people necessary but we know that.

panbient wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 09:41:
Gee. I wonder if Id being absorbed by Zenimax / Bethesda had anything to do with the length of development. Oh! Development has been entirely restarted by Bethesda as of 2011.
Gee, I wonder if the game raising $87m and having to build the studio from the ground up has anything to do with the development length of SC. But no, we can't mention that because it doesn't suit your argument.

panbient wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 09:41:
Decent? DECENT?!?! Decent does not sound like a valid adjective for what has been routinely quoted as the Best Damn Space Sim Ever! Fidelity is worthless if the underlying framework can barely support it. It's like those douchebags who get a Ferrari body on top of a Honda Civic chassis. Sure it 'looks' like a Ferrari... but it's not a Ferrari.
Dude, take a chill pill.

 
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News Comments > Some Star Citizen Refunds
73. Re: Some Star Citizen Refunds Aug 22, 2015, 09:34 theyarecomingforyou
 
Kosumo wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 04:23:
Fidelity does not equal great gameplay.
I didn't suggest otherwise.

Kosumo wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 04:23:
When you say Half-life 2 or Doom 4 or whatever else took x amount of time, what you should keep in mind is that to the best of my mind, none of those games had been taking money, large amounts of money form people before they knew what the end product was going to be. They where companies that took on the risk themselves. They where free to do as they pleased.
Absolutely, but those games were able to get funding from a traditional publisher - Star Citizen wasn't. Everyone that has pledged has done so knowing the risks. Could it all go tits up? Absolutely, but I'm happy to gamble on it as it's my favourite genre and Chris Roberts is responsible for making some of my favourite games.

Kosumo wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 04:23:
With Chris Roberts, he made statements about what he was going to make and when it was going to be released, and took peoples money (sometimes many times the price of a AAA game). Not only did he not release it anytime close to when he had said, he changed what he was going to make.
Aside from the delays he has only expanded what was originally planned and did so based because of backers supporting those stretch goals. That doesn't mean everyone will be happy but they never will be.

Kosumo wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 04:23:
To this day he has failed to deliver on many of the thing he said.

To top all that off, he has a long track record of not delivering on what he said he will.
Aside from the delays there's nothing about the game that hasn't delivered. There are subjective criticisms - like the control system, the role of ships, etc - but the game hasn't had features removed.

Kosumo wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 04:23:
You have even admitted that the way he as been selling internet spaceships is a neccercy evil - it not neccesery, he could have had a go at making good on his promises when he was at the ~$20 million mark but no, he's greedy and wanted more money which has not in anyway help him focus on making a good game (you know the it's the gameplay that makes a great game/BDSSE, not the graphics).
The game was always based around selling 'internet spaceships', continuing that is perfectly in-line with the original pitch on Kickstarter. Accepting more money to make the game better isn't 'being greedy', it's what most backers want.

Kosumo wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 04:23:
He has mismanaged this form day one. And that is why no publisher would even give him two cents.
I doubt anyone could have done better given the circumstances. The project has become a victim of its own success. However, as long as the final game delivers most people will accept it.

Kosumo wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 04:23:
He is pissing away other peoples money. That's pretty scummy in my book. ymmv
That's your opinion. From my perspective I support the direction of the game, even if I dislike the delays.

El Pit wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 07:00:
What point are you trying to make, theyarecomingforyou?

That the game including all stretch goals will take 20+ years
Yes, that was obviously the point I was making. Wall
 
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News Comments > 220M Grand Theft Auto Games Sold
8. Re: 220M Grand Theft Auto Games Sold Aug 22, 2015, 07:38 theyarecomingforyou
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Aug 22, 2015, 04:12:
I'm a proud non-owner of GTA V.
I don't think 'proud' was the word you were looking for.
 
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News Comments > Some Star Citizen Refunds
70. Re: Some Star Citizen Refunds Aug 22, 2015, 03:10 theyarecomingforyou
 
Vall Forran wrote on Aug 21, 2015, 17:50:
If you had a company that took 3 years! to make a buggy unplayable mess of a demo, you'd be fired. There are several levels with hard container boundaries. Say what? Controller configs don't work? That requires the most technical minds on the planet, so I understand why that's not done.

I bought two ships. So I've spent about $120. I really regret that. However, like you said, this game is what all of us want. I have hope. If the game ever releases, I will start with the two most basic ships for free! ...which probably will be free upon "release".

Though, I don't see how you get an image of a guy not slowing sinking into a pile of shit.
Any game that's part way into development is a 'buggy unplayable mess of a demo'. It's still missing core functionality. Heck, try driving a car that's only two-thirds complete. What we do have, though, is evidence of much more substantial content coming - the social module, large maps, multi-crew and first-person combat. At the end of the year we should have a much better idea of where the project stands, as we'll have either had the social module, SM and AC2.0 or they'll be MIA.

Don't forget, Half-Life 2 took five years to develop. When it was leaked a year early it was a mess and that's two years longer than SC has had. The scope of the project has expanded since the original pitch and now the only sensible comparison for development time is that of other AAA games and MMOs - they generally take at least fours years, usually five. Doom 4 was announced back in 2007 - it's taken eight years and they haven't released anything more than a trailer.

We're all well aware of the delays. What matters is whether the end game is decent and that looks to be the case now more than ever. Go back and watch the original pitch then watch the Gamescom demo - the fidelity is far beyond what was originally shown.
 
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News Comments > Some Star Citizen Refunds
39. Re: Some Star Citizen Refunds Aug 21, 2015, 15:36 theyarecomingforyou
 
Creston wrote on Aug 21, 2015, 12:58:
panbient wrote on Aug 21, 2015, 12:01:
RedEye9 wrote on Aug 21, 2015, 11:21:

Wiki, GTA5 development costs 137 million plus 128 million for marketing.
The more you know... Everyone happy now?

And how much of either piece went to licensing music for all the radio stations?

Seriously though, I've always been curious about it.

I can't remember where I read it, but it was estimated to be around $40-50 million for the music licenses. That undoubtedly has increased for the PC/PS4/Xbone versions since they have a lot more music.
There's no way it cost that much to license the music. There are 240 licensed songs in GTA5 and, according to ASCAP, the upper limit for licensing is typically around $20,000 per song - assuming all were that much it would amount to $4.8m. In reality some were probably a lot cheaper and some more expensive, so $5m is a reasonable estimate.

As for the idea earlier that SC can only be completed if it raises another $40-50m, that's just nonsense. However, CIG has likely factored in continued revenue into their projections. I'd be surprised if the game doesn't hit $100m by the end of the year, especially if we're actually going to see SM, AC2.0 and the social module (S42 is still a longshot). And it will certainly make a lot when it's released, as a lot of people have been holding back. The real issue is if the game becomes a lot more delayed, which is a distinct possibility, and if funding drops. While funding has dropped off that's mostly because of a lack of new content, which should hopefully be coming to an end.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen FPS Development Moves In-House
29. Re: Star Citizen FPS Development Moves In-House Aug 18, 2015, 22:15 theyarecomingforyou
 
Kxmode wrote on Aug 18, 2015, 15:56:
Illfonic and Foundry 42 are basically the same studios.
You're not even subtle in your trolling.
 
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News Comments > (Old) Leaked DOOM Footage
18. Re: (Old) Leaked DOOM Footage Aug 18, 2015, 14:55 theyarecomingforyou
 
This looks very much in-line with the leaked artwork a few years back, which I pointed out looked shit. Fortunately they decided to reboot it and I was really impressed with the E3 presentation. I didn't they they could get me to care about a new Doom game.  
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News Comments > Star Citizen FPS Development Moves In-House
14. Re: Star Citizen FPS Development Moves In-House Aug 18, 2015, 14:51 theyarecomingforyou
 
This is a positive move, as Illfonic is a tiny studio whose portfolio consists of one crappy game (Nexuiz, 54 on Metacritic) that was stolen from the mod community. They were only brought on because a) they were cheap, and b) they'd used the CryEngine before. Many in the community had concerns about them from the start.

It seems that Erin Roberts, who took over from Alex Mayberry, has decided to restructure development and bring it in-house ahead of schedule. Personally I'm glad as Foundry 42's work has always been of a much higher calibre than that of Illfonic. Unfortunately this probably means delays, as F42 is responsible for S42.
 
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News Comments > Overwatch Gameplay Video
4. Re: Overwatch Gameplay Video Aug 12, 2015, 12:40 theyarecomingforyou
 
Looks pretty decent for a casual game.  
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News Comments > Star Citizen Multi-Crew Shown
121. Re: Star Citizen Multi-Crew Shown Aug 10, 2015, 16:30 theyarecomingforyou
 
{PH}88fingers wrote on Aug 10, 2015, 16:16:
Kxmode wrote on Aug 10, 2015, 14:26:
STAR CITIZEN'S CREATOR SAYS HITTING $75 MILLION GOAL IS "LIBERATING"

“I used to have some arguments internally where the head of marketing was like ‘Well, we'll see if we can do 20 [million]’ and I was like, ‘Ahh, there's no way we're doing 20.’ So, it has been pretty awesome.”

Two thoughts here.

1. That was originally the game Star Citizen was going to be. "Star Citizen will improve on Privateer with 100 star systems to explore on launch." (from Kickstarter)
2. "I used to have some arguments internally where the head of marketing was like 'Well, we'll see if we can do 20 [million]'" How many times did a similar argument happen between Chris and Alex... to the point where Alex gave up and "left for personal reasons"?

When Roberts first launched the project in October 2012, he hoped to raise between $2 million to $4 million to bring on angel investors to help fund the game. As the game is successfully raising funds independently, the project is liberated from bringing on private investors, allowing the developer to proceed with the game’s production as it sees fit.

Angel investors fall under what is known as Accredited Investor and they are protected under SEC or securities laws. And as pointed out on this article anything falling under this classification typically has negotiated protections and rights such as

* Voting rights to ensure the company does not take certain actions without the investor's approval; (i.e. creating massive out of scope changes)
* Access to the premises and financial information; (i.e. "Show us the money?! What have you spent it on?")

The fact that Backers are not "officially" and "technically" investors means CIG doesn't have to share financial information and can take certain actions without the investor's approval. Anyone with 86+ million dollars of Backer money and absolutely ZERO state or Federal oversight is a disaster waiting to happen.

When CIG explodes, it's going to be colossal.

And when it doesn't explode will you finally STFU ?
Magic 8-Ball says 'don't count on it'.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen Multi-Crew Shown
112. Re: Star Citizen Multi-Crew Shown Aug 9, 2015, 20:40 theyarecomingforyou
 
Mr Desktop Commander has no evidence of impropriety. Everything he has presented is conjecture. There's nothing to respond to.  
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News Comments > Star Citizen Multi-Crew Shown
110. Re: Star Citizen Multi-Crew Shown Aug 9, 2015, 19:43 theyarecomingforyou
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Aug 9, 2015, 16:05:
CR actually indirectly confirmed that Squadron 42 is still scheduled for the end of this year in this interview (near the end starting at around 08:30 or so).
He was asked whether the plan was still to have ~12 months gap between S42 and SC/PU and while he successfully tiptoed around specifically giving a date for S42 he did confirm that the PU is still scheduled for release at the end of 2016(!).
So since he did not deny the 12 months plan we can put 1 + 1 together and assume that S42 is at least in his world and mind still on schedule for late 2015.
Having followed the game closely I don't think there's any realistic possibility of it being released this year. As you yourself pointed out he avoided giving a date. What was more interesting was that the start of the PU is expected at the end of the year, making me think they're going to bulk up the social module to make up for the S42 delay.

CJ_Parker wrote on Aug 9, 2015, 16:05:
To me this definitively confirms now that CR is either totally out of touch with reality or intentionally dangling carrot dates in front of backers to keep them hoping and especially pledging.
There is absolutely no way he can seriously believe they will launch the PU as promised with 100 systems at the end of next year so I'm more inclined to believe in the theory that he is intentionally misleading people.
If you look at the fuss when Star Marine was pushed back one can understand CIG's hesitance to announce delays, which I think is the reason he dodged the question. It's easier to let it slide and hope that a future reveal, like those planned for CitizenCon, will take off the heat. I don't like it but I understand why. As I said, I'm not expecting it for a year based on previous delays.

As for the PU, CR hinted that something big is being worked on with procedural generation. The game isn't going to do it like Elite: Dangerous but it could be used to quickly populate systems, which can then be hand finished to give them the necessary fidelity. It's quite possible that CIG has simply been holding them back, as the 64bit precision necessary for large maps is coming with AC2.0. Don't forget we know from the leak that a lot of ships were worked on behind closed doors. That said, I share your scepticism. Unless CIG can start delivering playable content in a substantial manner soon then it raises a lot of questions.

I think this year is make or break for the game. The SM delay has definitely hurt CIG's credibility and it remains to be seen what the social module will bring to the table - if it's just walking around a large, empty map then people aren't going to be impressed. They also need to deliver big time with SM and AC2.0. I'm impressed with the content that CIG has shown off but I do think they've dropped the ball on delivering that content to players. We still only have one racing location and the two arenas that shipped with AC over a year. They've pumped out lots of ships, which generate revenue, but haven't managed a single new map.

People around here like to troll me and present me as a rabid fanboy but I'm well aware of the concerns and I have serious concerns about CIG's inability to deliver content in a timely manner. However, I also recognise that this part of the development is very slow and unrewarding and that the game can come together quite quickly. Once FPS, social and multi-crew are in place there is a real framework for the game and even with delays it looks like we should have those this year - if they can get the basis of the PU in as well that's a bonus. If they manage to release S42 I'll be astounded but that would really silence the critics. We also haven't seen the DX12 implementation, VR, anti-aliasing or customisation, so there's a lot that is still expected on the technical side - that could come at any time. I expect the game will eventually come together but it will be a lot slower than people are expecting. I'm also confident that CIG will be able to deliver enough new ships and sales to fund the game through that period.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen Multi-Crew Shown
104. Re: Star Citizen Multi-Crew Shown Aug 9, 2015, 14:03 theyarecomingforyou
 
grudgebearer wrote on Aug 9, 2015, 13:39:
AAA production value is not going to sell a game to people that are not interested in the genre. The DCS series is a AAA title, but unless you are into military flight sims you aren't going to buy it, and that's why there isn't a shitton of DCS-type games floating around, it's a niche category just like space flight sims.
Star Citizen is still in development and already it has nearly a million backers, yet you want to argue that it won't have any mainstream appeal? The coverage it receives is far beyond that of niche games like DCS. Even indie games in pre-release can hit a million copies, so it would be astonishing if the game doesn't end up with at least four-to-five million sales and I expect it will be in the tens of millions. As I pointed out, Diablo III sold 30 million copies and this game is hugely hyped. If it turns out to be a great game then the sales will follow.

Star Citizen's appeal is the multi-genre nature of the game - space sim, FPS, MMO, racing, etc. We haven't even seen some of the main features shown off yet - DX12, VR support, the voice cast, the story, etc. In the two days after the Gamescom presentation the game pulled in nearly a million dollars and the presentation was poorly put together, the game itself buggy and they announced a delay to Star Marine. Your doom and gloom is without merit.

That's not to say there aren't major question marks surrounding the project, especially when it comes to hitting deadlines. As I've said before, the biggest omission was Squadron 42 - they announced delays to Arena Commander 2.0 and Star Marine yet nothing was said about Squadron 42, despite it supposedly being released this year. It's pretty obvious they're not going to meet that deadline and I think it will be nearer the end of 2016. For me that's not a concern, as I care about the end product, but I can understand people feeling let down or betrayed.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen Multi-Crew Shown
98. Re: Star Citizen Multi-Crew Shown Aug 9, 2015, 10:45 theyarecomingforyou
 
Eirikrautha wrote on Aug 9, 2015, 10:02:
Of all of the posters here, YOU are the one operating on pure unadulterated faith. CRI has not produced even one minute of actual "gameplay" yet. Sure, they have tech demos like the arena. They have models you can look at in the hangar. But the actual game is nowhere to be seen. Of the (originally 100 per the stretch goals, but now reduced) 40 systems in the "game", how many are complete? Zero.
As Taylor Swift sang: Haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate.

In case you hadn't noticed, the game is still being actively developed. AC allows people to test out the mechanics and play multiplayer, which absolutely IS 'gameplay'. To suggest otherwise lacks any credibility. The social module is expected this month and the FPS module has been delayed to next month but both have been shown off. Nobody said Unreal Tournament or Half-Life 2 didn't exist when they were delayed because there was mountains of evidence to support otherwise; people did say that about DNF because the development of the game was hidden.

Are you seriously expecting me to believe that all of the content that has been shown off doesn't exist and isn't going to be released? If not then what we're talking about is a delay, which happens all the time in the gaming industry.

Eirikrautha wrote on Aug 9, 2015, 10:02:
With all the associated studios working on the single player part of the game (which has now been broken into thirds, which you disingenuously call "a trilogy" in order to falsely make it seem like the first part will be a full single player experience, rather than one-third of one), how much of the game have we seen? Zero (but I'm sure that's just so there won't be any spoilers )
At the moment there is one studio working on Squadron 42, which is Foundry 42 in the UK. The other studios are focusing on ship design, FPS, the social module and the PU. Further, are you claiming that Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope and The Lord Of The Rings: The Fellowship Of The Ring were really one-third of a normal film? Your accusation is without merit. What next, are you going to accuse Chris Roberts of being a paedophile? I mean fuck evidence, let's just make shit up.

Eirikrautha wrote on Aug 9, 2015, 10:02:
There is nothing that CRI has produced at this point that a few talented artists and a programmer or two couldn't make on Unity in a month.
At first I thought you might be serious in what you were posting but now it's patently obvious you're just trolling. Congratulations.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen Multi-Crew Shown
91. Re: Star Citizen Multi-Crew Shown Aug 9, 2015, 07:39 theyarecomingforyou
 
Kosumo wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 22:36:
I want to hear Chris Robert refute Derek Smarts claims that he has used Star Citizen's 'pledge' money to pay for use of private jets/planes, a house/mansion on a commercial lease, a Porches and a cook.

It should be real easy for him to do so if Derek is just making that stuff up.

If he does, it would totally take any wind out of Derek's sail and make Derek into a totally liar.
Don't be ridiculous. CIG would have to release financial accounts, which they couldn't do because salaries are confidential and naysayers would simply pick through to find anything to complain about, and even if they did people like Desktop Commander would just claim they were lying anyway (as he has been). All it would do is give him stature, which is exactly what CIG is trying to avoid.

It's like trying to disprove the existing of god. You can prove evolution, you can prove the Big Bang Theory and you can prove that the Bible / Qur'an / Torah are contradictory nonsense, yet people will still continue to believe regardless.

grudgebearer wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 23:49:
There is absolutely no reason to believe that Star Citizen is going to magically generate some sort of mass appeal among what the industry considers "mainstream gamers." You are correct, there are some people who have been waiting on this game, and did not back the kickstarter, who will purchase it at launch, but if you think it's going to be enough to sustain future development or ongoing costs associated with the PU, then you are deluding yourself.
There's no reason to believe the most hyped PC game in recent history, that pushes gameplay and graphics like no other, will be able to generate mass appeal? Nonsense. Most people don't back pre-release games and most people wait for sales after launch.

grudgebearer wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 23:49:
Space sims, are a niche market, and you can try to deny it, but there's a solid reason why large publishers do not make games like this, and that's because they are not marketable to the majority of their consumer base. It's the same reason we so many damn CoD and Battlefield reiterations every year...the same tired franchises over and over...it's unfortunate, but it sells, and if space sims sold you'd see EA or Microsoft beating down the doors to Chris' kickstarter funded leased mansion to buy it from him.
Yeah, such a niche market that already the game has pulled in over $86m and broken all records for crowdfunding. People like space sims, they just don't like the terrible games that have been released since Starlancer. That's why people have been so quick to get behind Star Citizen. Also, don't forget the popularity of MMOs on PC - WoW still have over 5m subscribers, Final Fantasy has over 5m subscribers, etc. If they can manage that many SUBSCRIBERS then just think how many copies of Star Citizen will be sold considering it doesn't require a subscription.

grudgebearer wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 23:49:
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 19:08:
Heck, Rollercoaster Tycoon managed 4 million sales and Diablo III more than 30m.

Diablo III, Rollercoaster Tycoon? Really...that's what you are going with? How is the fact that a theme park simulation sold 4 million copies, or that a ARPG sold 30 million copies even relevant to this discussion? Remind me which one of those is (was) marketed as a space flight sim in the vein of Wing Commander and Freelancer. This should be interesting to say the least.
You're completely missed the point, which is that Star Citizen is successful precisely because there haven't been any meaningful space sims in a decade. I mean, bloody hell - Rust sold a million copies and it was still in pre-release and is a shitty indie game. Arma 3 is a terrible game and it sold 3 million copies.

Your position has absolutely no credibility.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen Multi-Crew Shown
78. Re: Star Citizen Multi-Crew Shown Aug 8, 2015, 19:08 theyarecomingforyou
 
El Pit wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 14:01:
I doubt that AC- or CoD-fans backed this, but Wing Comannder fans did. So how about sticking to the vision of making a great sequel to Wing Commander/Starlancer?
I backed this game as a spiritual successor to Starlancer and am happy with the direction the game is taking. The fidelity and scope of the game is beyond what was originally promised, which looking back now wasn't that impressive.

El Pit wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 14:01:
I don't think that game is in any way shaping up to be a complete game at all, but I can respect your opinion. At least you want the game, too, and not just some propaganda videos.
I find the community videos to be very interesting and a very interesting insight into game development. But I backed it because of the game. It may take a lot longer than originally planned but the game looks to have a lot of longevity. I'm much more interested in a game I can played every week for the next several years than a short singleplayer game that I can complete in a day or two. I appreciate that others might feel differently and feel let down by the extended development period.

CJ_Parker wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 14:04:
Yes and no.

Yes, if we would believe that the original vision for SC is still a thing, i.e. PC master race game, made for HOTAS, blablablah...

No, because it no longer is. The game has long been in a process of transformation to a game with more mass appeal. The whole purpose of the FPS module is more mass appeal (Mass Effect people etc.).
Then look at controller balance. The game is now 100% favoring mouse and keyboard and whenever they are presenting the game anywhere they are using console controllers. Anyone who believes they will do a 180 and make HOTAS the tool of choice needs to lay off the drugs.
Then there's a whole new opportunity now with Win 10 and streaming to the Xbone. It's a safe bet that this game will play very well with a controller.
Controllers make sense for showing off the game as they smooth movement, which is great for videos. I'm a PC gamer through and through but I prefer watching videos where they use controllers because the movement is less jerky, especially when you're talking about low bandwidth streams at 30fps. They also take up less space than full HOTAS setups. If anything I think the new controllers they announced with Saitek demonstrate their commitment to HOTAS, with the trackballs allowing accurate aiming for gimballed weapons which will definitely offer an advantage. Nobody thinks the game is being developed around controllers.

Kxmode wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 14:43:
There is no game. Just like no one calls 3DMark a video game. An alpha is a complete game with lots of bugs. A beta is a complete game with minimal bugs and near gold status. Star Citizen, as it is today, is probably the most expensive tech demo ever made. Until CIG can finish all the promised basic modules and bring them all together it will always remain a tech demo. If CIG goes bankrupt Star Citizen will forever be a tech demo.
Comparing SC to 3DMark is beyond ridiculous - AC is already playable and SM isn't far off, whereas nothing in 3DMark is playable. It's very clear you're just trolling.

Kxmode wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 14:26:
They did. Executive producer Alex Mayberry. He was responsive for doing exactly what you said. He was either fired because he wouldn't "go along with teh vision" or he quit because he couldn't control Chris' craziness even though his position gave him the power to do so. Alex was suppose to be the ying to Chris' yang. With him gone Chris is now free to go ape shit on his game and take it down in the fiery blaze of glory.
He left for personal reasons but I'm not surprised that you'd leap to the conspiracy theories. Plenty of people leave developers for various reasons. I mean, one of the co-founders of Valve left during Half-Life 2's development and that game turned out great. You ignore the fact that CIG has taken on many of the creators of the CryEngine and poached people from Blizzard because it doesn't suit your conspiracy theory.

Flatline wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 18:03:
Yeah I've been wondering how close to saturated the market is already for SC. I think it'd be fair to say that over 50% of their market has already invested. Probably closer to 75% if I had to guess.

So even if it launches complete, how the f*ck is it *profitable*?
A lot of people won't back until it launches or go on sale. Further, there will be expansions to Squadron 42 as it's designed as a trilogy. I assume they'll also sell new ships as they're developed, which will bring in considerable money. The clever thing about CIG's business model is that it gets those with large amounts of disposable income to invest extremely large amounts, with many investing tens of thousands of dollars. Meanwhile those who back the bare minimum get all the benefits by simply earning them in-game. After the Gamescom presentation the game pulled in nearly half a million dollars in a single day. Less than a million people have backed the game, whereas the most successful games tend to sell numerous millions. Heck, Rollercoaster Tycoon managed 4 million sales and Diablo III more than 30m.
 
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Fugazi wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 13:13:
I am still very glad I backed this project. From my perspective, throwing money at a vision is a better use of my funds than buying another iteration of Assassin's Creed and COD. I have also enjoyed the community videos etc. and already feel I have received significant value for my pledge to date. The game is shaping up as I had hoped when I signed up back in 2012.
This. It might very well turn out to be a dull, tedious and buggy game but I took a gamble backing it because I love the genre and have enjoyed Chris Roberts' previous games. I don't regret it.

To be honest there are very few games I truly regret buying, with RAGE and BRINK being two of them. I must stop buying games with all-capitalised titles.
 
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El Pit wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 11:17:
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 10:22:
All of this is for Squadron 42. These are the sorts of missions that we can expect to see in the singleplayer. And yes, that includes FPS which was promised before the Kickstarter finished. You seem to think that this is just being done for a laugh. The multi-crew is needed for the co-op portion of Squadron 42.

The Persistent Universe is an expanded version of the universe created in Squadron 42. They share many of the same assets and mechanics.

That's partially what I wanted. Make SQ42 WITHOUT FPS, multiplayer, and so on, just a real Wing Commander sequel, then take the assets built and the money coming in and work on the next step. Step by step instead of one giant leap into the unknown. Do you understand? Instead of planning to work on a spaceship to fly to another galaxy, first work on one putting a satellite in orbit, then a dog, a man, then try to go to the moon, then to Mars... Step by step. CIG is instead working on that one trip to another galaxy without knowing if they could even successfully launch a satellite into orbit. Bravery? Yes, but also blind faith and very bad management.
I backed this game looking for a spiritual sequel to Starlancer and the Wing Commander series, which is what the game is shaping up to be. Personally I'm glad they're working towards the Persistent Universe as I want a game I can play for the next three-four years, not for 10-20hrs. Don't forget that the PU is coming after S42.

The delay is disappointing, sure, but the quality and scope of the game we're getting is going to be all the better for it. I've been waiting over a decade for a game like this and a few extra years really isn't a big deal if the end product is worth it.

As for funding, they're setting up S42 as a trilogy and will be selling future mission packs down the line in large part because of the staying power of the PU. This game goes substantially beyond what has been attempted before.
 
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dsmart wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 09:41:
There is no "game" here. There never will be. And here's why as well as the cost analysis and feature comparison.
There's more of a game here than ANYTHING you've ever released.

dsmart wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 09:41:
If they survive 2016, it will be a miracle of biblical proportions.
I'll be sure to quote you on that. I mean, I assume you're happy to admit when you're wrong?

El Pit wrote on Aug 8, 2015, 09:51:
How about taking the kickstarter money and work on Squadron 42 ONLY. Then relase this (just a Wing Commander clone - no FPS, multiplayer or stuff), and with the money that they can make if Squadron 42 is great and successful, produce the MMO with FPS and stuff. How about that? Finish SQ42, release it to prove what you really can pull off and by this, win over new investors. No hangar, no dogfight module, a complete single player SQ42. And then move on to MMO, IF SQ42 can win over the gamers.
All of this is for Squadron 42. These are the sorts of missions that we can expect to see in the singleplayer. And yes, that includes FPS which was promised before the Kickstarter finished. You seem to think that this is just being done for a laugh. The multi-crew is needed for the co-op portion of Squadron 42.

The Persistent Universe is an expanded version of the universe created in Squadron 42. They share many of the same assets and mechanics.
 
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